Monks, how I loath your concept. (an idea)

[LordErebus12]

Has anyone ever thought of having the monk change drastically from the normal monk?

I have.

Ive been mulling over it and over it and I feel its just too outside what Ive expected to see. Dont get me wrong, I do still like them as a class.

Has anyone ever thought of making a monk run off a separate attack progression, one very alien to what is currently presented.

I wonder if anyone would care to aid me in making this a realization.

The first idea i had was to create a functioning combo system for the monk to utilize.

imagine a monk gaining its normal BAB, without iterative attacks and Flurry Of Blows. At each new iterative attack level (or perhaps others, idk) they can gain combo attacks.

for example: instead of a monk with two attacks (standard and one iterative) or FOB in a full round action, the monk can chain several quick attacks, perhaps up to his Dexterity Modifier.

Chaining attacks
perhaps for every two blows landed, the monk gets a mundane or even special attack option that he can employ to deal unique effects like stunning blow, flying kick, etc.; in addition to extra damage. we somehow design a way of chaining attacks.

two (fast) punches/chops land, gains more powerful kick.

later can utilize three punches, a kick and if all four hit, a powerful body grapple that ends in a slam attack, knocking the foe prone.

--

perhaps grapples gain the ability to cause penalties to using certain body parts by overstraining muscles with their grapple attempts.

--

id imagine if done right, we could make a more interesting monk, or at least a basis to evolve a different martial class entirely.

[LordErebus12]

thought it was something to look into doing. hope some people will give it thought.

[sengmeng]

Seems more like a series of feats than a monk fix to me. I do kind of like the concept though. Mechanically, it's a little like the Rend ability: extra punishment to a foe when you land more than one hit.

Could also do Wing Chun punch: Monk attacks at his highest BAB. If he hits, he gains a free attack at his highest BAB -2. If he hits again, he gains another free attack at an additional -2, and so on until he misses. Then he starts his iterative attacks (don't know if they should also grant free attacks; probably wouldn't matter, they'd stop pretty quick).

[LordErebus12]

had a standard monk with the vicious stomp feat with an attack section like this:


Lotus Strike (1H) Kick +7 melee (1d6+4 / 20x2)
Rising Lotus (FOB) Knee & Kick +5/+5 melee (1d6+4 / 20x2)
Mantis Pounce (1H) Trip +5 melee and (swift action on successful trip) kick +7 melee (1d6+4)
Mantis Pounce (FOB) Disarm +7 melee, Trip +5 and (swift action on successful trip) kick +7 melee (1d6+4)
Falling Branch (2H) Mwk Sansetsukon (3-section staff) +8 melee (1d10+6 / 19-20x2)
Monkey’s Paw (FOB) Disarm +5 melee and Mwk Sansetsukon +6 melee (1d10+6 / 19-20x2)
Turtle Stance (2H) Mwk Sansetsukon +4 melee (1d10+6 / 19-20x2) (+2 AC and +1 Shield for defensive fighting)
Crescent Meteor (FOB) Mwk Kusarigama Sickle +6 melee (1d3+4 / 20x2) and Mwk Kusarigama Flail +6 melee (1d6+4 / 20x2)
Serpent’s Coils (FOB) Mwk Kusarigama Sickle +6 melee (1d3+4 / 20x2), Mwk Kusarigama Flail +6 melee (1d6+4 / 20x2) and (free action on successful critical hit) grapple +7 melee
Stone-Dragon Kick (FOB) Mwk Kusarigama Flail +6 melee (1d6+4 / 20x2), Trip +5 melee and (Swift action, if trip is successful) Kick +7 melee (1d6+4 / 20x2)
Ranged Mwk Longbow +6 ranged 100 ft. (1d8 / 20x3)


within the rules are possibilities, but its all in the imagination of the builder.
i just want to simplify and focus on it more.

[Garryl]

I was working on something not entirely dissimilar a while back that I never quite finished. Feel free to take any of the ideas that look interesting.


First off, full BaB. It makes things sync up so nicely with the following mechanics. However, most of the traditional Monk abilities won't be present. At least, not directly.

Pressure Strikes: You learn a number of pressure strikes based on your level. These come in 4 grades: Least, Lesser, Greater, and Ki. You can apply a single pressure strike to any unarmed strike attack you make, but you can only use any given pressure strike once per round. Some pressure strikes impede your enemies. Others rejuvenate and enhance your allies. Most pressure strikes are extraordinary abilities.
The save DC of your pressure strikes is equal to 10 + 1/2 your Monk level + your Wisdom modifier.

Mantras: You learn a number of mantras based on your level. Mantras are persistent effects, usually either emanations or personal effects. Starting a mantra is a swift action, but maintaining or ending one is a free action. Initially, you can maintain only one mantra at once, but at higher levels you learn to use multiple at once.
Using a mantra requires focusing on a group of sounds, syllables, or words with mystic meanings relating to the universe. Only creatures that can hear these sounds can be affected by one of your mantras. Normally, this requires chanting them out loud, but telepathy can communicate them just as well. If you do not wish for any creatures other than yourself to be affected, you can silently think of the sounds in your mind.
The save DC of your mantras is equal to 10 + 1/2 your Monk level + your Wisdom modifier.

Resonance (Su): Starting at 6th level, whenever you hit a creature with at least two attacks in a single round, you create one point of resonance on that creature. If you do not add to or use this resonance within 24 hours, it dissipates harmlessly. Starting at 11th level, you can create an additional point of resonance if you hit a creature three times in a single round. At 16th level, you can create yet another point of resonance if you hit a creature four times in a single round.
If multiple creatures create resonance on the same subject, track each pool separately. They don't interact with each other. Resonance can only be used by the creature that created it.

Releases: Starting at 6th level, you learn to release the resonance that you can build in your foes and your allies. You learn a number of releases based on your level. Releases are supernatural abilities that can be used as a swift action. Regardless of their effects, using a release removes all of your resonance from the target, and you can only use a release on a creature that has at least one point of resonance.
The save DC of your releases is equal to 10 + 1/2 your Monk level + your Wisdom modifier.



Class Features

1 Pressure Strikes (Least), Mantras (Least), Unarmed Strike, AC Bonus
2 Evasion
3 Still Mind
4 Bonus Feat
5 Purity of Body
6 Pressure Strikes (Lesser), Mantras (Lesser), Resonance, Releases (Lesser)
7
8
9 Bonus Feat
10 Double Mantra
11 Pressure Strikes (Greater), Mantras (Greater), Improved Resonance, Releases (Greater)
12 Diamond Body
13
14 Bonus Feat
15
16 Pressure Strikes (Ki), Mantras (Ki), Master Resonance, Releases (Ki)
17 Timeless Body
18
19 Bonus Feat
20 Perfect Self, Triple Mantra

Know 2 Pressure Strikes at 1st level, +1/level and an extra at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th. Total 25 (7/6/6/6).
Know 1 Mantra at 1st level, and another at 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 13th, 16th, and 18th. Total 8 (2/2/2/2).
Know 2 Releases at 6th level, and another at 7th, 9th, 11th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 17th, and 19th. Total 10 (--/4/3/3).

AC Bonus grants an armor bonus to AC equal to 3 + level/3.
While wearing light or no armor, it also gives an insight bonus to AC equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Double and Triple Mantra let you maintain two (or three) mantras at once.

Bonus feats are any feat designed for the new class features or a Fighter feat.

Needs some elegant way to get multiple attacks while still moving, I think.



Pressure Strikes

Least
Actualizing Touch: Attack deals no damage. Subject gains a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls and saving throws for 1d4+1 rounds.
Focused Fist (Su): Attack gains a +1 enhancement bonus and automatically confirms critical threats.
Hand Afire (Su): Attack deals +1d6 fire damage.
Kneading Hands: Attack deals no damage, instead removing that much nonlethal damage.
Least Chakra Block: Target must make a Fort save or lose the use of magic items and soulmelds on the crown, feet, or hands chakras for 1 round.
Sickening Blow: Target must make a Fort save or be sickened for 1 round.
Thunderclap: Target must make a Fort save or be deafened for 1d4+1 rounds.
Scorpion Claw: Attempt to start a grapple as a free action if attack hits.

Lesser
Bodily Release: Attack deals no damage. Target is allowed a new saving throw against any ongoing stunning, paralyzing, or movement-impairing effects.
Deadly Reach: Attack has twice the normal reach.
Hand of Revelation: Attack ignores miss chances, may reveal invisible targets.
Healing Hands: Attack deals no damage, instead healing that much damage.
Lesser Chakra Block: As Least Chakra Block, but also affects the arms, brow, or shoulder chakras and lasts for 1d3 rounds.
Lockjaw: Target must make a Fort save or have difficulty speaking. For 1 round, any action that involves speaking takes an additional move action that also provokes attacks of opportunity. Bonuses and immunity against paralysis also apply to this pressure strike.
Mental Release: Attack deals no damage. Target is allowed a new saving throw against any ongoing mind-affecting effects.
Ordered Strike (Su): Attack bypasses all damage reduction. Target's DR may be reduced for 1 round.
Shadow Hand (Su): Attack as an incorporeal touch attack.
Shattered Palm Strike: Target must make a Fort save or drop anything held and lose the use of its hands for 1 round.
Staggering Strike: Target must make a Will save or be staggered for 1d3 rounds.
Void Release: Attack deals no damage. Target gains a +2 morale bonus to all ability scores for 1d4+1 rounds.

Greater
Greater Chakra Block: As Lesser Chakra Block, but also affects the throat and waist chakras and lasts for 1d4+1 rounds.
Gut Blow: Target must make a Fort save or be nauseated for 1 round.
Mending Touch: Attack deals no damage. Target is cured of a laundry list of conditions.
Resonant Palm (Su): Creates 1 additional resonance on the target if it already has any resonance.
Sweeping Strike: Attack all enemies within reach.
Stunning Fist: Target must make a Will save or be stunned for 1 round.
Wholeness of Body: Attack deals no damage. Subject is healed for the damage it would have dealt and is cured of up to 1d4 ability damage to one ability score.

Ki
Hand of Fate (Su): Attack deals no damage. Target rolls all d20 rolls twice and takes the better result for the next 1d4+1 rounds.
Hand of Judgement (Su): If target fails a Will save, it rolls all d20 rolls twice and takes the worse result for the next 1d4+1 rounds.
Ki Chakra Block: As Greater Chakra Block, but also affects the heart and soul chakras and lasts for 1d6+2 rounds.
Piercing Trident: Attack all enemies in a cone with radius equal to twice your normal reach.
Quivering Palm (Su): Creates 2 additional resonance on the target if it already has any resonance.



Releases

Least
None

Lesser
Damaging Release: Subject takes 1d10 damage per resonance.
Flurry of Blows: Make an additional attack against the target at your highest attack bonus.
Harrying Release: An invisible force distracts the target for 1 round per resonance, allowing all attackers to treat it as flanked.
Painful Release: Subject takes a penalty to AC and saves for a short while.
Staggering Release: Subject takes a penalty to all movement speeds for a short while.
Sweeping Wind: Target may be checked, knocked prone, or blown away based on its size and resonance.
Wave of Life: Release positive energy, healing all allied living creatures within 30' of the target for 1d8 per resonance and dealing that much damage to undead (Will half).

Greater
Cyclone's Grasp: Enemies within 30' of the target may be checked, knocked prone, or blown toward the target based on their size and the target's resonance.
Greater Flurry: Make two additional attacks against the target at your highest attack bonus.
Living Call: Returns a recently slain creature to life as revivify.
Release Burdens: Removes a number of negative levels, ability drain, and ability damage based on the target's resonance.
Traumatic Release: Subject takes 2d6 damage per resonance and is shaken for a short time.
Unraveled Dweomer: As a greater dispel magic, either centered on or targeting the target. Can dispel no more magical effects than the target's resonance.

Ki
Breath of Nirvana: Allies within 30' of the target heal 20 hp per resonance, enemies may be blinded or stunned.
Confounding Release: Target is confused (no save) for one round per resonance.
Second Birth: Target is completely restored, as per greater restoration.
Serenity: Target is immune to damage and automatically succeeds on most saving throws for a short time.
Soul Release: Separate the target's soul or animating energies from its body. Target must make a Will save or die, be knocked unconscious, or be dazed based on its resonance.



Mantras

Least
Step on the Wind: Fall slowly, ignore difficult terrain.
Flowing Waves: You and allies gain a bonus on Reflex saves and to AC against critical confirmation rolls.
Passionate Flame: Nearby enemies must make a Will save or take fire damage every round.
Stoic Earth: You and allies gain DR/- and a bonus on Fort saves when you move very little.

Lesser
Dark Thoughts: Nearby living creatures take 1d6 damage every round. You gain temporary hit points equal to the total damage dealt this way, which last for 1 round.
Inner Sanctuary: Enemies must make a Will save to attack you if you haven't attacked them yet.
Step of Light: You and allies gain an enhancement bonus to all movement speeds and a dodge bonus to AC based on the distance moved.
Tongue of the Sun and Moon: You and allies can communicate with any living creature, regardless of language. Gain a bonus on Listen and Sense Motive checks.

Greater
Abundant Step: Teleport instead of moving.
Diamond Soul: Gain Spell Resistance that you can raise or lower with no action.
There and Nowhere: Gain Improved Evasion or Armored Evasion. Nearby allies gain Armored Evasion.

Ki
Empty Body: Become incorporeal or shift to and from the ethereal plane.



Edit: I really need to go back and look at what comes where and form what again. The pressure strikes are all over the place, and midway through I forgot about releases and mantras, so some of those effects should be there instead, or moved around, or whatever.

In pressure strikes I want 4 things
- Damage
- Debuffs
- Healing
- Buffs
More of the same in releases, but also with area of effect abilities.
Mantras get personal buffs, area buffs, and area debuffs. Not so much the damage and/or healing things.

The writeups of most releases will state that they don't benefit from more resonance than your level. So not much point in building up ridiculous amounts of it on yourself out of combat, for instance.

Feats

- Use a Pressure Strike more than 1/round.
- Apply multiple Pressure Strikes to a single attack.
- Leave some resonance after using a release.
- Use Pressure Strikes with weapons instead of only unarmed attacks.
- Lasting Resonance: Resonance lasts for 1 day per level instead of 24 hours.
- Gain some resonance on yourself after using a release on another creature.

[LordErebus12]

possibilities, but its too much to absorb all at once and it still feels like the monk.

i do like it though. some of the abilities are nice, too.

but i want combos :P

[LordErebus12]

Seems more like a series of feats than a monk fix to me. I do kind of like the concept though. Mechanically, it's a little like the Rend ability: extra punishment to a foe when you land more than one hit.

Could also do Wing Chun punch: Monk attacks at his highest BAB. If he hits, he gains a free attack at his highest BAB -2. If he hits again, he gains another free attack at an additional -2, and so on until he misses. Then he starts his iterative attacks (don't know if they should also grant free attacks; probably wouldn't matter, they'd stop pretty quick).

not so much like feats, nor do i want them to be.

i could, but i feel it would defeat the purpose but its a step in the right direction.