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View Full Version : Increasing Bard Spell DC's



Invader
2013-01-18, 11:27 PM
Title pretty much explains it. I'm looking for the best way to improve my saves with very minimal cheese, no dips in other classes, etc. This will be for first level only so a 20 lvl build doesn't really help.
We can assume that all books and dragon magazine are ok, 2 feats, 2 flaws at first level.

Alternatively, suggestions for a good primary buffing/spell casting, secondary ranged bard would be welcome as well.

Invader
2013-01-19, 12:01 AM
Specifically, does anyone think Vow of Non Violence is worth it if the DM rules that I can still cast any spell on an enemy that doesn't directly deal damage. The description seems to be a bit hazy and open to interpretation on what you're allowed to cast.

Generally a +4 to all saves seems worth a 2 feat tax.

Urpriest
2013-01-19, 12:33 AM
Specifically, does anyone think Vow of Non Violence is worth it if the DM rules that I can still cast any spell on an enemy that doesn't directly deal damage. The description seems to be a bit hazy and open to interpretation on what you're allowed to cast.

Generally a +4 to all saves seems worth a 2 feat tax.

At first level, with no expectation that you'll level up? There's basically nothing else that will give you more bang for your buck than that. As long as you feel confident playing an Exalted Good character, I'd go for it.

That said, a first level Bard only has 0th level spells. If you're only going to be first level I really wouldn't advise focusing on spellcasting.

Invader
2013-01-19, 01:01 AM
At first level, with no expectation that you'll level up? There's basically nothing else that will give you more bang for your buck than that. As long as you feel confident playing an Exalted Good character, I'd go for it.

That said, a first level Bard only has 0th level spells. If you're only going to be first level I really wouldn't advise focusing on spellcasting.

I guess that kinda was poor working on my behalf. I should have said I'm looking for ways to increase the saves from approx levels 1-6 or so more than ways to maximize it out over 20 levels.

inexorabletruth
2013-01-19, 09:27 AM
Well, you could start by being a Gnome. Many bardic spells are illusions. That gives you a +1 to the DC. If you're allowed a race with a higher LA, than any race that boosts CHA is an excellent choice. Most DM's are cool with Drow. That's an easy +2 to CHA right there.

Then check out Nymph's Kiss (Book of Exalted Deeds). +2 to Cha-related checks will help, and it makes for great RP to have and maintain a relationship with a member of the fey.

Then check out the X Stat to Y Bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) thread. Anything that boosts Charisma will bump the DC to your Bardic spells.

And if you're desperate, and you've got some clout with your DM, there are some CHA buffing feats in Book of Erotic Fantasy that aren't overly cheesy. For instance:

Chaste Life: +2 to one ability score of your choice (put it in CHA, obviously)
Self-Aware: +2 enhancement bonus to CHA

Urpriest
2013-01-19, 12:28 PM
I guess that kinda was poor working on my behalf. I should have said I'm looking for ways to increase the saves from approx levels 1-6 or so more than ways to maximize it out over 20 levels.

Ah ok. Yeah, even in those levels Vow of Nonviolence is pretty spectacularly good.

IIRC, this handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19867266/Enchanter_Handbook) has some good advice for DC-boosting, most of which should apply to bards as well as enchanters.

You might be able to whip up a combo with Talfirian Song and Heighten.