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View Full Version : OOTS #369 - The Discussion Thread



The Giant
2006-11-04, 11:44 PM
Saturday bonus OOTS is up.

Deuce
2006-11-04, 11:46 PM
Should be a good smack-down!

StickMan
2006-11-04, 11:46 PM
Lets get ready to rumble.

Rin
2006-11-04, 11:48 PM
Didn't see that coming!

Looking forward to the extra strips. :D

TinSoldier
2006-11-04, 11:48 PM
Hurray Miko! As much as I like Redcloak, I hope Miko pwns him like the bearer of the Crimson Mantle that he is! Even Xykon is betting against him!

Flabbicus
2006-11-04, 11:49 PM
Plot advancement, who woulda thunk it?

So I guess the Crimson Mantle holds some significance, whatever that means. I'm guessing Redcloak and Xykon had a run in with the Sapphire Guard earlier in their carrier.

musicnerd
2006-11-04, 11:50 PM
Go Redcloak!

theKOT
2006-11-04, 11:51 PM
Wonderful! Go Miko! Although I do think
she will succeed in escaping to warn Azure city.
Loved the throwawy joke, and I'm always up for a good battle scene. This introduced some new plot points("Crimson Mantle?") and is strong and fast-paced throughout. 8/10.

I wonder where this all is headed.... Come on Sunday!!!!!

fwiffo
2006-11-04, 11:51 PM
Something tells me Redcloak's loyalty to his master is about to take another dip.

Miko has taken a few more hits than I expected. This is not a good opening for her.

Flabbicus
2006-11-04, 11:53 PM
I just noticed something. The third demonic. *roach is back. Yipee!

Edit: Oh come on! They bleep out ****-roach!

Dispozition
2006-11-04, 11:55 PM
Oh god...So funny...

Come on Red Cloak...Kill that palaldin!

EmeraldFire
2006-11-04, 11:56 PM
YES!!! Finally we get to see Redcloak in action!

Myatar_Panwar
2006-11-04, 11:58 PM
Ya I was wagerly waiting to see the cleric in action as well. Great comic by the way.

ref
2006-11-04, 11:58 PM
Ah, great! So Red vs Blue, as in the board game... hehe. and Go Miko Go!

kirbsys
2006-11-04, 11:58 PM
Yeah Redcloak. I'd take Xykons bet. Recloak canlast more than foure rounds. Hope he pwns her.

kirbsys
2006-11-04, 11:59 PM
I bet the Crimson Mantle is a goblin equivalent of the Saphire guard.
Especially since their both non main colors.

KeiranHalcyon
2006-11-05, 12:00 AM
~whistles "Theme from Rocky"~

Jonathan327
2006-11-05, 12:00 AM
Definitely like where this is going.

Pvednes
2006-11-05, 12:01 AM
Ohh, Redcloak is stuffed.

TinSoldier
2006-11-05, 12:03 AM
"Crimson Mantle", "Sapphire Guard", comic #300 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html), Hmm. Connections? I wonder...

TigerHunter
2006-11-05, 12:06 AM
Is it just me or is the URL botched? I was checking periodically, then found out about the new one from a friend. When I went to giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html, I saw yesterday's... had to click the forward arrow to fix it.

Haarculaneaum
2006-11-05, 12:06 AM
So where do I get a :redcloak: #1 hand thingy?

Also -- the Paladin hasn't attacked THE LICH yet?

Hoping for reanimation,
Haar

eilandesq
2006-11-05, 12:07 AM
Redcloak is probably cursing the transition to 3.5 rules by now--that Harm spell would have had Miko all but dead with no save under 3.0, forcing her to immediately use her entire Lay on Hands charge for the day (however much that is--ever get the feeling that Miko--who, after all, did start out as a Monk--used CHA as one of her dump stats?) right then and there and letting Redcloak press the attack.

Azukar
2006-11-05, 12:09 AM
One of the great benefits of living somewhere almost antipodean to America - we get OotS comics at around three to four in the afternoon! Perfect timing, hey?

Tola
2006-11-05, 12:10 AM
Wait.

Azure City is the hometown of the Sapphire Guard. Why's Redcloak so surprised to see one of them near their own territory?

So, it's Cleric vs Paladin, then? Hmm.

TigerHunter
2006-11-05, 12:11 AM
Wait.

Azure City is the hometown of the Sapphire Guard. Why's Redcloak so surprised to see one of them near their own territory?

So, it's Cleric vs Paladin, then? Hmm.
He's more curious as to why a Paladin would be on something as unimportant as watchtower duty.

charik
2006-11-05, 12:11 AM
Woot! Last panel ftw!

And I haven't checked yet, is there a giant hand like :mitd: has in the Shop?

The Glitter Ninja
2006-11-05, 12:12 AM
Candygram. Ha! This was hysterical. I love :mitd:

Grey Watcher
2006-11-05, 12:13 AM
So, it would seem that Redcloak is pretty up there in levels, too. I mean, Miko has to be, by definition 17th level (4 attacks per round, with at least 2 levels of Monk means 15 levels of Paladin). They seem to be a roughly even match (though Redcloak doesn't appear to be a melee build, meaning Miko might have the advantage since this is hand to hand here), meaning Redcloak is probably roughly the same level as Miko.

TinSoldier
2006-11-05, 12:13 AM
Candygram. Ha! This was hysterical. I love :mitd:Now that would have been even funnier than the encyclopedias!

Flak_Razorwill
2006-11-05, 12:18 AM
HOLY POOP! She's actually fighting a MAJOR ENEMY!

*Places $40 on Miko...thinks...takes back*

Tola
2006-11-05, 12:18 AM
...Well, if Miko's going to die, now is the time.

How DO Clerics compare to Paladins in combat skill? How do you think this'll go?

Now, she's got a serious problem. Is her own mission(And indeed, bringing warning that there is a LICH on their territory) so important that she can afford to abandon all the poor watchtower guards? If she doesn't at least make the attempt to save one, I'd be surprised.

SPoD
2006-11-05, 12:25 AM
I mean, Miko has to be, by definition 17th level (4 attacks per round, with at least 2 levels of Monk means 15 levels of Paladin).

If each "slash!" equals an attack; and we still don't know with which weapon each attack is made. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting allows you to take a second attack with your off-hand weapon, meaning that Miko might be as low as 12th level (2 levels of monk + 9 levels of paladin = BAB +11/+6/+1 with main weapon, +11/+6 with off-hand). I don't think she IS 12th level, but there's no hard evidence for her to be as high as 17th, either.

Leo_Forestclaw
2006-11-05, 12:25 AM
I hope Miko heard Xyklon call her a "chick." I can't imagine what her reaction to something like that would be!

If she survives the encounter with Redcloak...

Love the way this is going, Mr. Giant!

thecommodore6
2006-11-05, 12:26 AM
:mitd: and :roach: get me everytime!
'Redcloak #1'

theKOT
2006-11-05, 12:26 AM
Now, she's got a serious problem. Is her own mission(And indeed, bringing warning that there is a LICH on their territory) so important that she can afford to abandon all the poor watchtower guards? If she doesn't at least make the attempt to save one, I'd be surprised.
What can she do? If they have their army with them their is no way she can get past them.

Hmmm
The guard ran off after saying, "We're under attack!" This probably meant he went to rally whatever troops are inside the tower. I predict he comes with a garrison of warriors who know they are doomed, but are willing to sacrifice themselves in order the ensure that Azure City is warned. "Go! We'll hold them off! The city must be warned!"

Edit: Why doesn't Redcloak have any cuts or injuries?

Death, your friend the Reaper
2006-11-05, 12:26 AM
Anyone taking bets?

I have to say, that I think RedCloak's dressing in drag would be hilarious. Maybe this is how they get into the paladin fortress later on? Only time will tell.

Also thanks for the extra strip. It is amazing that you would do one just since you know how much we want to know what happens to poor ol Elan.

eilandesq
2006-11-05, 12:35 AM
How DO Clerics compare to Paladins in combat skill? How do you think this'll go?

An ordinary paladin would be toast at this point if Redcloak could get off a Flame Strike--even half damage would probably finish Miko off. Because of her Monk levels, Miko has Evasion and won't take damage if she makes her save vs. Flame Strike or similar spells. Unless Redcloak has more spells--preferably touch spells--that don't allow Reflex saves, he's got a big problem, since he has no weapon or shield: Miko is carving him up in melee.

Of course, even if Miko wins this fight she's http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html looking at a problem we've seen before. :smalleek:

Kadasbrass
2006-11-05, 12:36 AM
Bah Page two!?! Don't you people have a life! :tongue:

But extra story tatbits, this is indeed ineresting.

Going to guess Miko doesn't die, but joins the dark side willingly for some reason. As long as no one uses "I am your (enter relation here).


I just noticed something. The third demonic. *roach is back. Yipee!

Edit: Oh come on! They bleep out ****-roach!

I know, I wanted to put "Because the ****roach has finally met its match!" under "of the Kobold Foundation" :frown:

Winged One
2006-11-05, 12:37 AM
MORTAL COMBAT!

You know, Xykon might just have earned a major godsmack from Redcloak.

TroyXavier
2006-11-05, 12:37 AM
There's a mastermind for you. More interested in making bets against his own lackey than trying to help him.

Minimiscience
2006-11-05, 12:42 AM
Hmm... interesting. I guess it makes sense for Miko to know about this "Crimson Mantle," as she probably sees all evil as a potential threat to the gate, but why would Redcloak find a Sapphire Guard paladin to be particularly worrying?

TigerHunter
2006-11-05, 12:43 AM
Hmm... interesting. I guess it makes sense for Miko to know about this "Crimson Mantle," as she probably sees all evil as a potential threat to the gate, but why would Redcloak find a Sapphire Guard paladin to be particularly worrying?
Because he was expecting a ton of low-level Warriors?

fwiffo
2006-11-05, 12:44 AM
Is Miko in panel 8 using her "lay on hands"?

Reading the description of Destruction spell (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsDtoE.html#destruction), it sounds darn nasty, but Miko made her save. So, why is she "weak"? Just HP damage, or does it have other effects?

Does anyone get the impression that the use of article "the" and capitalization to refer to "the bearer of the Crimson Mantle" is significant? As in, there is only one of those. So, Redcloak is not just someone who happens to be a high-level member of organization of goblin clerics, but someone possessing a uniquely famous magic item?

Kython
2006-11-05, 12:44 AM
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH!!!!!!!!

I love the foam "Redclaok #1" hand that MTID has.

it's gonna be an intense, and likely a long battle, since both of them can heal their own wounds (redcloak may be more bent towards damaging spells but he could heal his own wounds more than miko probably could)

...

400gp that miko ecapes somehow!

Charity322
2006-11-05, 12:47 AM
There were pieces of a red cloak found at the crime scene when Lirien's gate was destroyed. Although there could have been more to the interest in conquering Azure City first than just the taking down of a ton of Paladins hehe.

The new OOTS emoticons are cool btw, and the new spoiler thing.

kirbsys
2006-11-05, 12:48 AM
WHy doesnt Redcloak carry a melee weapon? If he did he'd be pwning her with his spells and at least have a chance at one on one combat.

Aiani
2006-11-05, 12:48 AM
I feel conflicted now. On the one hand I don't really want the bad guys to win so I don't want Redcloak to beat Miko but on the other hand I like Redcloak. He's a funny guy so I don't want him to lose either. Either way this should be interesting.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2006-11-05, 12:48 AM
Giant, you wouldn't happen to have a cult started that I could join, would you? These wacky Banjoists just aren't cutting it.


So that's what saving against a save-or-die spell feels like... Still, Miko just took 10 damage/caster level and 10d6 damage. Tough as nails, isn't she?

Of course, Xylon's going to toast her if he gets her outside of melee range.


Wait a minute, is there something going on with Redcloak's backstory we don't know about? Any OotPCs owners out there?

Charity322
2006-11-05, 12:50 AM
Oh and it is cool to see Redcloak getting to show some evil power, instead of just being Xykon's minion. :)

Has anyone noticed that that ****roach in the last panel is wearing a bookie's hat lol?

Edit: Oh come on censoring ****roach is a bit much.

Trobby
2006-11-05, 12:52 AM
Wooooohoooo! ^o^ First in a line of fast-paced updates, and already struck gold! ^^

I can't actually place why I like this comic so much, but I just do. Maybe it's because it's a suprise I never even thought of, or maybe it's because we get to see two secondary characters duke it out in full earnest.


[spoiler]Though Miko doesn't stand a chance in this fight, I imagine she'll try to run away as soon as possible. Despite her desire to destroy Redcloak and his Red Mantle, whatever that's about, Miko's smart enough to realize that protecting her hometown's a more important matter to attend to right now.

Xylon just might let Redcloak get killed here, but as a fan of Redcloak, I'm personally hoping he won't bite the dust, and that Miko will have to run off before the killing blow can be laid on either side.

Though whatever does happen, it's bound to be interesting from here on...VERY interesting...

TinSoldier
2006-11-05, 12:52 AM
Wait a minute, is there something going on with Redcloak's backstory we don't know about? Any OotPCs owners out there?Only what has been revealed in the comics. See Comic #300 where Redcloak seems to especially pleased about WHICH nation they are going after.

Flabbicus
2006-11-05, 12:56 AM
I doubt she knows about the pieces of red fabric left on Lirian's gate.

And the censorship is a bit annoying.

Devils_Advocate
2006-11-05, 01:04 AM
Take a look at comic #277 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0277.html). See the goblins being smote by the Sapphire Guard? One of them is dressed rather similarly to Redcloak, isn't he? Very simlilarly, in fact.

Edit: It could even BE Redcloak getting his head chopped off there. Just so long as there was a minion left to get him resurrected...

Redcloak is the high priest of his evil goblin deity, and is working to take control of Azure City's gate. The paladins of the Sapphire Guard have fought against those who would threaten the gate. It's actually not too surprising that Miko's and Redcloak's respective orders would be familiar with each other (and not on particularly good terms).

Flabbicus
2006-11-05, 01:05 AM
Take a look at comic #277 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0277.html). See the goblins being smote by the Sapphire Guard? One of them is dressed rather similarly to Redcloak, isn't he? Very simlilarly, in fact.

Redcloak is the high priest of his evil goblin deity, and is working to take control of Azure City's gate. The paladins of the Sapphire Guard have fought against those who would threaten the gate. It's actually not too surprising that Miko's and Redcloak's respective orders would be familiar with each other (and not on particularly good terms).

True. But his cloak is not very reddish. More purple.

Wikkin
2006-11-05, 01:08 AM
Good comic. I like the 2 of them duking it out. I didn't really care for the punchline. It seems out of character for the sake of making a cheezy joke. My 2 cp,

Lord Zentei
2006-11-05, 01:16 AM
With Miko being more concerned about the "crimson mantle" than the Lich, I'm beginning to wonder just which of the two villains is really the more important.

kirbsys
2006-11-05, 01:23 AM
Good comic. I like the 2 of them duking it out. I didn't really care for the punchline. It seems out of character for the sake of making a cheezy joke. My 2 cp,

Out of character? This is the dude that killed a bunch of his goblins so that he wouldnt have to pay them.

KeiranHalcyon
2006-11-05, 01:28 AM
My guess is that the Crimson Mantle is merely a badge of office as head of Redcloak's order. Like "the White Wizard".

TigerHunter
2006-11-05, 01:29 AM
Out of character? This is the dude that killed a bunch of his goblins so that he wouldnt have to pay them.
Ogres, actually. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0037.html)

DaMullet
2006-11-05, 01:31 AM
A fantastic comic in all, Giant. Can't say I care much for for Miko still being alive, but hey. Fight scenes always rock.

Argus
2006-11-05, 01:33 AM
Wait a minute, is there something going on with Redcloak's backstory we don't know about? Any OotPCs owners out there?

I own it, but it's currently more than 80 miles away.

That book is not "On the Origin of NPCs". His only contribution (if I remember correctly) was an introduction. There might be a proper backstory for him in the future, though.

mikeejimbo
2006-11-05, 01:34 AM
Out of character? This is the dude that killed a bunch of his goblins so that he wouldnt have to pay them.

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with this. I would generally be worried if the only thing between me and Miko was one person's life, but I would be much less worried if I were Xykon himself.

Miko is out of lay-on-hands and low on HP after Redcloak's battle? Not a problem for me.

However, also if I were Xykon, I wouldn't want Redcloak to die. He holds that..uh...thingy that has his soul.

Piedmon_Sama
2006-11-05, 01:34 AM
GO REDCLOAK

EYE OF THE TIGER

AIM FOR HER OTHER EYE

USE AGILITY

But in all seriousness, I've got a feeling Miko will take the Goblin down.... just because hard luck seems to be Redcloak's lot in life. Probably Xykon will either have already left by then, though, or he'll blast her not a moment after Redcloak drops with some incredibly unfair spell.

Jodwin
2006-11-05, 01:38 AM
My guess is that the Crimson Mantle is merely a badge of office as head of Redcloak's order. Like "the White Wizard".

Well, as we all can recall from the previous strips, Redcloak IS the high priest of his evil goblin deity, so the signifigance of the crimson mantle seems rather obvious IMO.:smallwink:

Turcano
2006-11-05, 01:39 AM
See, this strip is a textbook example of why Xykon is the most awesome villian in existence. Any hack villian can sit back and let his minions to all of the dirty work, but it takes a whole new level of badass to bet on the outcome (betting against his own henchman, no less).

Now I'm not only interested to see if Miko wins, but if she also beats the spread.

mikeejimbo
2006-11-05, 01:40 AM
Now I'm not only interested to see if Miko wins, but if she also beats the spread.

I quite literally laughed out loud at that. :biggrin:

Solarious
2006-11-05, 01:42 AM
And Redcloak gets shafted by Xykon, as usual, just like his name says. Nothing special, but it is fun to see the campaign setting shine through every now and then, in addition to Xykon's continual abuse of Redcloak.

GenericFighter
2006-11-05, 01:42 AM
I own it, but it's currently more than 80 miles away.

Wow! How far away is your bathroom?!

kriklaf
2006-11-05, 01:46 AM
Man, I love those roaches. I also hope Redcloak doesn't bite it--he and Xykon are way too good as a straight man/top banana pair to be split up.

Daily OOTS...life is good. The strip has been awesome lately. Well done and thanks, Giant!

eilandesq
2006-11-05, 01:53 AM
See, this strip is a textbook example of why Xykon is the most awesome villian in existence. Any hack villian can sit back and let his minions to all of the dirty work, but it takes a whole new level of badass to bet on the outcome (betting against his own henchman, no less).

Now I'm not only interested to see if Miko wins, but if she also beats the spread.

Betting on your own minions to lose at least once is a requirement for being inducted into the Arch-Villains' Hall of Fame. :belkar:

WarriorTribble
2006-11-05, 02:05 AM
Egad, Xylon is betting RedCloak will die on the next round? Hope the goblin get's out of this ok.

I wonder how Miko could get out of this alive. Surely, she can't take on both of them. Hope Xylon doesn't do the "I'm letting you live do you can hate me" cliche.

Dugray
2006-11-05, 02:43 AM
I don't get how people can claim that this is out of character for Xykon. This is exactly in character. He's a ****, what else can be said?

Glad the C0ckroaches are back too. Retarded censors.

Solmage
2006-11-05, 03:00 AM
Miko!! Run! It doesn't matter if she wins or looses, because then she'll get pwnd by Xykon! :( Ruuuuuuun!


Miko has taken a few more hits than I expected. This is not a good opening for her.

I believe she saved vs Harm and vs Destruction. But Redcloak is, intelligently, using spells that still do a crapload of damage on a failed save when casting at a paladin. (harm does half damage, so thats 150/2=75 , and destruction deals 10D6 on a failed save, so thats about 35 damage..) - basically, those attacks hurt, a lot. But she's doing well for herself, as I would expect her to do with either Redcloak OR Xykon all ALONE in a fair duel.

Unfortunately, this isn't the case, and as soon as she knocks Redcloak into unconsciousness, she'll have to deal with whatever Xykon has in mind to stop the battle. (I hope it's something along the lines of imprisonment, or force cage, and not along the lines of a maximized empowered scorching ray or somesuch)


An ordinary paladin would be toast at this point if Redcloak could get off a Flame Strike--even half damage would probably finish Miko off. Because of her Monk levels, Miko has Evasion and won't take damage if she makes her save vs. Flame Strike or similar spells. [...]
Of course, even if Miko wins this fight she's http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html looking at a problem we've seen before. :smalleek:

Well, Redcloak doesn't know that, but so far he's casting spells that are guaranteed to put the hurt on her on a failed save. Why bother with flamestrike when Harm did more damage saved that a non-saved flame strike. It's possible next round he'll use a reflex save spell and thus Xykon will win his bet :)

As for too high the DC for evasion, well my evasion paladin has reflex saves significantly above any rogue of his level, and Miko is pretty high level. (I agree with the estimate placing her at around 17, also explains how she beat the crap out of the entire oots, who are more 12-14ish)

Then again Xykon may very well have a higher DC than Samantha..


Egad, Xylon is betting RedCloak will die on the next round? Hope the goblin get's out of this ok.

I wonder how Miko could get out of this alive. Surely, she can't take on both of them. Hope Xylon doesn't do the "I'm letting you live do you can hate me" cliche.

Notice Xykon says Win by KO, not by death. There's no way she's killing Redcloak, he'll stop the fight before she finishes him off.

As for what happens afterwards, well at this point I'll take any cliche that saves her :-/



I feel conflicted now. On the one hand I don't really want the bad guys to win so I don't want Redcloak to beat Miko but on the other hand I like Redcloak. He's a funny guy so I don't want him to lose either. Either way this should be interesting.

I am quite certain Redcloak won't get killed. Of course I could be wrong, but I think the wording 'KO' was used for a very specific reason, not just as part of the boxing joke.

I'm still worried sick about Miko however. I hope she didn't use wisdom as her dumpstat and realizes this is a good time to run run run!

Ronfar
2006-11-05, 03:14 AM
Maybe I'm being a bit obtuse here, but doesn't "crimson mantle" just mean "red cloak," so there might not be any more significance to Miko's comment than just that she happens to know Redcloak's name for some reason?

okpokalypse
2006-11-05, 03:17 AM
Well, assuming Miko saved both times, and Redcloak is a L15, she's taken about 110 Damage. However, I want to know why she didn't get Attacks of Opportunity against those touch spells to both do damage and break his concentration.

One thing I've learned playing a Cleric, unless you've got shielded caster, those Touch-Damage spells aren't very useful against something with a decent attack roll, and I don't see a shield on Redcloak.

Blackeagle
2006-11-05, 03:19 AM
Maybe I'm being a bit obtuse here, but doesn't "crimson mantle" just mean "red cloak," so there might not be any more significance to Miko's comment than just that she happens to know Redcloak's name for some reason?

She doesn't even have to know his name, just look at what he's wearing! The way she says it though, I have to believe there's some significance to it.

Winged One
2006-11-05, 03:36 AM
Well, assuming Miko saved both times, and Redcloak is a L15, she's taken about 110 Damage. However, I want to know why she didn't get Attacks of Opportunity against those touch spells to both do damage and break his concentration.

One thing I've learned playing a Cleric, unless you've got shielded caster, those Touch-Damage spells aren't very useful against something with a decent attack roll, and I don't see a shield on Redcloak.

Well, at high levels, the Concentration DC to cast defensively and not provoke an AoO is trivial.

Itdano
2006-11-05, 03:57 AM
Joy. Glee. Happiness. More joy. More glee. More happiness. Hell of a comic, Giant. Well done.

:)

tgva8889
2006-11-05, 04:02 AM
Those Demon 'roaches must have a good amount of money to be able to take bets.

Poor Redcloak. He suffers from the ignobility of his allies. I think he'll be left unconscious by Miko, and then Xykon will kill her with, like, Slay Living or something.

Felinoid
2006-11-05, 04:13 AM
A great comic until the end joke. When an author has to take material from forums (belied by the repeated coincidences, and now this betting joke so soon after the betting thread opened up), he's scraping the bottom of the barrel. I have the uneasy feeling that the fast pace of the strips is going to hurt the quality. :frown: But enough Chicken Little...

Love the fight scene. They seem pretty evenly matched, and it'll be interesting to see what happens, though a draw with a retreating Miko is certainly the most likely outcome. "Crimson Mantle" raised an eyebrow, and that too will be interesting to see what comes of it. I sincerely hope that at least one of the panels in these extra comics shows how Miko words her warning to Shojo (or whoever she goes to instead if she thinks he can't deal with it due to his public persona) and how he reacts to that particular piece of news.

Adeptus
2006-11-05, 04:43 AM
Wow! A bonus update!

Nice to see things heating up in the main plotline.

Eldhrin
2006-11-05, 04:52 AM
I love it! Xykon's enduring lack of respect for Redcloak despite Redcloak's continued loyal service is a cornerstone of why I love these diversions to the bad guys. Rich should never, ever feel bad about not following the OOTS for a while, because so far all his alternatives have been just as good.

As for Miko vs. Redcloak...
The worst I feel that will happen is that Miko will be defeated and be unable to warn the Sapphire Guard. Although I suppose she might die and get resurrected later on. But would Shojo bother having her brought back after all the trouble he's gone to over the years to keep her on long missions away from Azure City?

Another theory: drunken wizard teleports the OOTS into the vicinity of the watchtower after Xykon's moved on. OOTS find Miko badly wounded, have unkind conversation but recognise common cause. Miko vows to bathe in their blood - after they've saved the gate.

Heads_or_Tails
2006-11-05, 05:18 AM
Wow, Xykon has proved yet again exactly how much he sees henchmen as expendable. I don't actually know who to root for in this battle, so I'll just say that the wacky kung-fu chick will have to run back to Azure City.

Movoza
2006-11-05, 05:51 AM
Love Mitd
the roaches are back!
and why does every1 bet against redcloak? the man who the whole enemy army depends on?

not fair!


(go miko!)

warmachine
2006-11-05, 06:30 AM
Unless the author wishes to deviate from the standard AD&D rules, waiting for Redcloak to be knocked out is too risky. With the magic weapons at these high levels, especially holy, Miko can do enough damage with a single strike to go right past 0 HP into -10 HP. Or at least so close that Xykon can't kill Miko then save Redcloak with a potion in time.

Sorcerers can't cast Raise Dead or the like and as Redcloak is the official leader of the hobgoblins, Xykon needs him alive. Xykon is not stupid or reckless. On the face of it, the comic doesn't make sense. However, we all know the author is better than this. Roll on next comic.

JoeKano
2006-11-05, 06:33 AM
However, I want to know why she didn't get Attacks of Opportunity against those touch spells to both do damage and break his concentration.

One thing I've learned playing a Cleric, unless you've got shielded caster, those Touch-Damage spells aren't very useful against something with a decent attack roll, and I don't see a shield on Redcloak.

Combat Casting feat, casting defensively, concentration check to avoid attack of opportunity. My Cleric does it all the time.........

But then hey, I only ever play human cleric, human fighter, or Halfling Barbarian.

"Purpose of visit to our fair city?"
"Lemonade, chicken and wh...seamstresses"

Doglord
2006-11-05, 06:38 AM
If Xykon turns her into a zombie, then Belkar could kill her, fufilling the oracles prediction!

But that is unlikely because shes kiking butt!

Retales
2006-11-05, 06:57 AM
I think it'd be cool if Xykon turned Miko into some cool undead (ie. other than zombie). Like wraith, wight or something :P

sun_tzu
2006-11-05, 07:03 AM
Makes me wonder...If Redcloak is powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with Miko, who can threaten the entire OOTS, why did he have such a minor role in the fight with the OOTS way back when? I mean, they were actually a level lower; he should have been able to take Durkon and Belkar by himself...

Freelance Henchman
2006-11-05, 07:04 AM
Excellent! <rubs hands> 400 Quatloos on the Asian hottie!

Morchaint
2006-11-05, 07:20 AM
Woot. battle on.
even Elan would rather watch this ,than have us worry about him in jail.

The Vorpal Tribble
2006-11-05, 08:09 AM
Oooh, if Miko loses do we get to have an undead paladin? :xykon:

Max_Sinister
2006-11-05, 08:26 AM
So Xykon would be willing to sacrifice Redcloak too? Great. Well, there's resurrection.

And what is so special about Redcloak's, well, cloak?

Sebastian
2006-11-05, 08:30 AM
I think that "bearer of the crimson mantle" is just the Myko's way to say "Redcloak", because she can't speak like a normal person, can she?

And poor redcloak that's why being evil sucks, because your teammates are usually selfish bastards. :)

fithi
2006-11-05, 08:47 AM
Yay! The :roach: and :mitd: are back! It's good to see them making a reappearance. :smallbiggrin:

Amusing comic, and I'm kind of hoping that :redcloak: wins this fight against :miko:.

Lemmingboy
2006-11-05, 09:08 AM
I really like this one. Good work!

Castamir
2006-11-05, 09:09 AM
I hope Miko heard Xyklon call her a "chick." I can't imagine what her reaction to something like that would be!
Uh, why would that be any worse than a paladin's reaction to a freaking lich?

~The Patriots~
2006-11-05, 09:28 AM
Redcloak is stronger than I thought, and it's good to see miko fighting again. She is annoying when she does anything other than fighting

Miklus
2006-11-05, 09:44 AM
I am starting to like Miko more and more. I know she is a bitch, but she fights for what she thinks is good and true. So what if she is hard on anyone how does not show the same level of dedication? I think any ruler should be happy to have such a loyal and competent servant.

As for :miko: vs :redcloak: ...Redcloak hasen't got a snowbal's chance in hell!

J.Gellert
2006-11-05, 10:16 AM
Go team evil!!!

I want a big red "Redcloak" hand like that :smallbiggrin:

Also;

Xykon'll probably intervene if he really can't seem to make it, anyway, remember his holy symbol is his lich-phylactery-thingy and Miko could potentially sunder it with a smite, if only just to prevent Recloak from using it as a focus for more divine spells... Sundering holy symbols is a good tactic all around the game.

Neo
2006-11-05, 10:22 AM
Yeah the betting was a nice touch as to how to make money by gambling on your henchman's survival rates :smallbiggrin:

Miko will probably win though.

Firstly why does Redcloak still suffer Xykon when he has the command of thousands of hobgoblins, no wizard would survive that undead or not :smallbiggrin:
Second, how the Destruction spell seems to heal Miko's wounds :smallbiggrin:

Solara
2006-11-05, 10:24 AM
As awesome as the fight was (an as I said in another thread, Redcloak's my favorite of Xykon's group, and I was impresed to see him do this well in a one on one fight with Miko), the main thing that stuck in my mind after reading was, "Waitaminute, Miko knows about the gate?" :eek:

Moebius
2006-11-05, 10:35 AM
Is this the first time we've seen the demon roaches talk to any other character?
Or for that matter, any other character directly acknowledging their existence?

Good point about Miko and the gate, Solara.

Skydiving_Ninja
2006-11-05, 10:38 AM
Miko knows about the gate just like the entire Sapphire Gaurd. Thats why Soon created it, so that they could protect the Azure City Gate and defeat those who would use it for their own purposes.

Varian7
2006-11-05, 10:38 AM
I love the demonic roach bookie, and boxing assistants! Go Miko, Go!

Tamis
2006-11-05, 10:39 AM
Oh my! It seems that our dear Redcloak has a reputation. (She says the Crimson Mantle, while Miko herself is merely an a paladin of the Saphire Guard.)

Now he'd better live up to it!
:redcloak:

Alchemistmerlin
2006-11-05, 10:51 AM
Oh man, if Miko dies I will be the happiest little jerk in the world.

Solara
2006-11-05, 10:55 AM
Miko knows about the gate just like the entire Sapphire Gaurd. Thats why Soon created it, so that they could protect the Azure City Gate and defeat those who would use it for their own purposes.

Okay, just reread the strips after the crayon saga and it seems you're right. It gets hard to keep up with what Shojo is and is not deceiving his paladins about after awhile. :smallamused:

Blood
2006-11-05, 10:57 AM
That was refreshing. Seeing high-level characters fight while their friends are either too weak (the watchtower guards and Xykon's minions) or too bored (Xykon and CitD).

Faramir
2006-11-05, 11:12 AM
Hmm, a thought just occured to me. Redcloak's deity wasn't part of the group that imprisoned the Snarl. Remember from

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html

that some gods arose after that incident "Some even raised up their own gods, like the elves and goblins."

Spoiler:

So it's quite possible that RC's god has his or her own agenda here. It might simply be ignorance, or it might be a desire for access to the power of the Snarl to overthrow the other pantheons, or even some apocalyptic desire to destroy this world so he/she can have a hand in building the new one.

That would explain why Redcloak is such a stalwart supporter of Xykon. Of course then the question arises of how much Xykon knows of this.

Alfryd
2006-11-05, 11:14 AM
There were pieces of a red cloak found at the crime scene when Lirien's gate was destroyed.
Ooh, good Spot check.

I doubt she knows about the pieces of red fabric left on Lirian's gate.

Waitaminute, Miko knows about the gate?
She'd have as much reason to as anyone in the force.


WHy doesnt Redcloak carry a melee weapon? If he did he'd be pwning her with his spells and at least have a chance at one on one combat.
Who knows. He doesn't seem to be heavily armoured either.

With Miko being more concerned about the "crimson mantle" than the Lich, I'm beginning to wonder just which of the two villains is really the more important.
Wait 'til she hears the name 'Xykon' dropped.


I agree with the estimate placing her at around 17, also explains how she beat the crap out of the entire oots, who are more 12-14ish...
Combat descriptions give her 5 attacks, so she can't have more than BAB 15.

Rich got burnt last time he tried to explain a crucial combat with major plot implications, so I think he's just going to not think about that right now.


Oooh, if Miko loses do we get to have an undead paladin?
Is that even possible?

...if Miko dies I will be the happiest little jerk in the world.
Truth in advertising.


Oh, yes: Good comic.

Blood
2006-11-05, 11:18 AM
Second, how the Destruction spell seems to heal Miko's wounds :smallbiggrin:
She's healing in the panel before.

Tach13
2006-11-05, 11:27 AM
I'd nearly forgotten how funny the roaches are, not to mention the guy with the fanged kitty umbrella. And yeah, I think the other guesses are right, Miko don't have a chance to take out Redcloak and still have the strength for the other minions.
Thanks for another great comic, love this strip.

Flabbicus
2006-11-05, 11:30 AM
As awesome as the fight was (an as I said in another thread, Redcloak's my favorite of Xykon's group, and I was impresed to see him do this well in a one on one fight with Miko), the main thing that stuck in my mind after reading was, "Waitaminute, Miko knows about the gate?" :eek:

All members of the Sapphire Guards do, just not the people at large.

themunck
2006-11-05, 11:34 AM
Did anyone hear the word "blackguard"

inky13112
2006-11-05, 11:55 AM
Hmm I just noticed Xykon has a red cloak too.

I'm sure this has some meaning for all the conspiracy theories, I just can't figure out what.

GO Miko! Smite that green fanged cleric!

WarriorTribble
2006-11-05, 12:34 PM
Notice Xykon says Win by KO, not by death. There's no way she's killing Redcloak, he'll stop the fight before she finishes him off.

As for what happens afterwards, well at this point I'll take any cliche that saves her :-/Hmm maybe although considering they're both attempting to kill each other, and pointy swords aren't really known for knocking poeple out... well except blood loss, but I'm guesing Redcloak can heal that.

sklar dansig
2006-11-05, 12:37 PM
RUN MIKO, warn the city and make Xykon lose 200gp to a roach

Mr._Blinky
2006-11-05, 12:38 PM
Wow, Miko is barely injuring him at all (though that Smite might change things)...

And Redcloak's kickin' ass!

By the way, how do I get smilies on the new boards?

Dawnstrider_Moogle
2006-11-05, 01:19 PM
The only way Redcloak wins is if Xykon starts giving a sh-- before Miko lands the final blow. Although Xykon will probably start giving a sh-- after Redcloak falls, so Miko's probably screwed...but then again, if Roy can survive combat with Xykon Miko definitely can...well, except for the fact that her Plot Armor is not nearly as strong as Roy's.

Shinanaide kudasai, Miko-sama!

Om
2006-11-05, 01:27 PM
Great strip as always. Really great strip then.

Still, while I'm glad to have a bonus strip I don't see the need to rush through it. I could watch these two duel all week.

Cayzle
2006-11-05, 01:32 PM
Hmmm ...

"Saphire Guard" vs "Crimson Mantle" ...

So we have an epic battle of Red vs Blue ... just as Election Day rolls around! Coincidence? I bet we won't find out who wins until Tuesday nite, maybe Wednesday morning if it's close.

Cayzle
http://www.cayzle.com

TigerHunter
2006-11-05, 02:16 PM
Mr Blinky, there should be a box on the right side of the post box.

Aerysil
2006-11-05, 02:32 PM
Yeesh Giant, why the furious face on the topic? :)

Anyway, Destruction? Yeesh (#2) you don't want to fail THAT save... That makes Redcloak... what... 13th at least?

Sliverghost
2006-11-05, 03:05 PM
Oh god...So funny...

Come on Red Cloak...Kill that palaldin!

ya kill her.....AFTER she gives the message to him =P THEN kick her but :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

Tawkis
2006-11-05, 03:09 PM
Wow, Redcloak is awesome

He is in fact the man, one wonders why he didn't just Kill the order back in the throne room...

Solara
2006-11-05, 03:16 PM
Wow, Redcloak is awesome

He is in fact the man, one wonders why he didn't just Kill the order back in the throne room...

Because smart villains don't go toe to toe with the heroes if it's in any way possible to avoid it...at least not unless the heroes have already been rendered weak and/or helpless by minions.

In this case, you'll notice that Redcloak came face to face with Miko and was forced into the fight. Xykon on the other hand is cheerfully avoiding getting involved until Redcloak wears her down a little.

If this meeting had taken place in the open it's undoubtedly the nameless and expendable horde that would have gone after her first while Redcloak and Xykon both kicked back and took bets on the outcome.

idksocrates
2006-11-05, 03:18 PM
Redcloak is probably cursing the transition to 3.5 rules by now--that Harm spell would have had Miko all but dead with no save under 3.0, forcing her to immediately use her entire Lay on Hands charge for the day (however much that is--ever get the feeling that Miko--who, after all, did start out as a Monk--used CHA as one of her dump stats?) right then and there and letting Redcloak press the attack.

after the Harm Spell, she kicked away and used Lay on Hands to heal her wounds. Whether she was reduced all the way and had to use all her lay on hands, or whether she passed and was merely healing the save damage, i can't say.
She obviously saved versus destruction, and since she didnt' use Lay on Hands after that, she either used all of it, or felt that pressing the attack was the only effective way to keep more of the potentially fatal spells from coming her way.


Well, assuming Miko saved both times, and Redcloak is a L15, she's taken about 110 Damage. However, I want to know why she didn't get Attacks of Opportunity against those touch spells to both do damage and break his concentration.

One thing I've learned playing a Cleric, unless you've got shielded caster, those Touch-Damage spells aren't very useful against something with a decent attack roll, and I don't see a shield on Redcloak.

Don't really know why he doesn't have more armor and sheilds. he's either a poorly equiped cleric, or a cleric variant that focuses more on spellcasting than meleeing. Having a weapon just means that he threatens her. His spells would be a much better use in combat than the two or three attacks that probably wouldn't hit and would deal only a minimal amount of damage.


A great comic until the end joke. When an author has to take material from forums (belied by the repeated coincidences, and now this betting joke so soon after the betting thread opened up), he's scraping the bottom of the barrel. I have the uneasy feeling that the fast pace of the strips is going to hurt the quality. :frown: But enough Chicken Little...

Love the fight scene. They seem pretty evenly matched, and it'll be interesting to see what happens, though a draw with a retreating Miko is certainly the most likely outcome. "Crimson Mantle" raised an eyebrow, and that too will be interesting to see what comes of it. I sincerely hope that at least one of the panels in these extra comics shows how Miko words her warning to Shojo (or whoever she goes to instead if she thinks he can't deal with it due to his public persona) and how he reacts to that particular piece of news.

that's just plain insulting to rich. He doesn't take stuff from the forums, and in fact is often malevolent to things said in the forum. he will often change the entire plotline because someone revealed it in a thread.
Xykon is acting completely in character for what he's doing, particularly if you read the bonus content from Dungeon Crawling Fools. His betting is completely independent of a "betting thread" that occured in the forums.


Wow, Miko is barely injuring him at all (though that Smite might change things)...

And Redcloak's kickin' ass!

By the way, how do I get smilies on the new boards?

She's hurting him plenty, she's just doing it in many, many small doses. But for every five hits d10's or d6's he takes from miko, he hits her with a 5d10. He'll run out of HP faster than her though, so its a matter of who will run out of HP first.
But then, Redcloak, at any point, can completely heal all of his HP, while i'm pretty sure Miko is out of Lay On Hands.

CheezItMan
2006-11-05, 03:26 PM
Take your time with Miss M. She's not that bad a character, and besides I always thought Zyklon would have a chance to turn her.

Right after she beats Redcloak, she should be weak enough for Z, to make his play.:smallfurious:

It's time for the Sapphire Paladin to take a few levels of Blackguard!

Obezageip
2006-11-05, 03:38 PM
Knowing Xykon, if Miko manages to stun redcloak for a round with her stunning fist, he'll count it as a KO. The roaches might disagree, but what can they do?

xyzchyx
2006-11-05, 03:39 PM
You know, it's worth noting that this place *IS* a guard tower, and it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for Xykon and Redcloak to lead the whole army right up to it, as they would have been immediately seen by the guards onthe tower's roof and they would have certainly sent warning the city. I doubt Azure city's infrastructure to be so incompetent as to hire guards whose spot checks are abysmal enough that they can't see a whole freakin' army from the top of a watch tower. The DC for something like that is probably so low as to be automatic for anyone who isn't blind.

Blaznak
2006-11-05, 03:48 PM
Now this is a nifty fight scene! It's cool to see Paladin/Monk on Cleric Smackdown and have a front row seat, at that. Had I only known how popular it was going to be, I'd have totally scalped my tix, though...

Its neat to see that Rich found a way to make Miko cool, though...

Later!

MonkeyHead
2006-11-05, 04:00 PM
Go RedCloak!
:redcloak: > :miko:

Caractacus
2006-11-05, 04:08 PM
Moebius, the roaches (without their given name due to auto-censoring, I assume) have had a mumbled thanks from V when they flamed some attackers for him/her in the throne room fight scene, and Redcloak has interacted considerably with them when he tries to get them in to the roach motel.

Out of curiosity, seeing as a common word elsewhere for 'rooster' (Am. Eng.) is a word that starts the same as our roach friends and ends with 'erel' would it really appear as ****erel on this forum?

Dearly hope none of the main characters in this scene are killed...

Thanks, Rich!

CockroachTeaParty
2006-11-05, 04:09 PM
Bwa ha ha! Violence! It would seem that the Sapphire guard have a history with these goblins... most intriguing. Or however that's spelled.

Maratanos
2006-11-05, 04:10 PM
Moebius, the roaches (without their given name due to auto-censoring, I assume) have had a mumbled thanks from V when they flamed some attackers for him/her in the throne room fight scene, and Redcloak has interacted considerably with them when he tries to get them in to the roach motel.

Out of curiosity, seeing as a common word elsewhere for 'rooster' (Am. Eng.) is a word that starts the same as our roach friends and ends with 'erel' would it really appear as ****erel on this forum?

Dearly hope none of the main characters in this scene are killed...

Thanks, Rich!

Yes... :biggrin:

Moechi_Vill
2006-11-05, 04:16 PM
XXXXErel what? Please be more clear like d*rn (as in darn). Thanks

SPoD
2006-11-05, 04:32 PM
A great comic until the end joke. When an author has to take material from forums (belied by the repeated coincidences, and now this betting joke so soon after the betting thread opened up), he's scraping the bottom of the barrel. I have the uneasy feeling that the fast pace of the strips is going to hurt the quality. :frown: But enough Chicken Little...

I agree with idksocrates, this is an insult to Rich. Since you have no evidence that he's even aware of most of what is said in the forums (I read the forums, too, and I didn't know there was a betting thread until just now), you're just lobbing charges at him with no way to back it up. And frankly, even if the betting thread DID inspire it, which I find unlikely, the actual comic is almost nothing like that thread--unless the poster of that thread is actually a demon-roach, which I find equally unlikely. Finding inspiration is NOT the same thing as stealing material!

As far as other coincidences, are you referring to after-the-fact explanations of events? Because that just seems like good attention to detail to me. It strikes me as somewhat self-aggrandizing for forum posters to think that if Rich writes an explanation into a strip, it MUST be because THEY questioned it. Instead of, you know, he planned to explain it all along but he only has 10-12 panels every two days. A successful prediction of events is NOT the same thing as causing events!

Honestly, I think we should consider ourselves lucky Rich didn't see YOUR post, Felinoid, or he might shut the forum down just to prove that he isn't getting ideas from it.

Bilbo27
2006-11-05, 04:52 PM
Gotta love the evil coackroaches!! I wish he was my bookie!!

Kish
2006-11-05, 04:56 PM
that's just plain insulting to rich. He doesn't take stuff from the forums, and in fact is often malevolent to things said in the forum.

This is true, but...

he will often change the entire plotline because someone revealed it in a thread.

This is not. He's clarified that he's never actually changed the plotline because of anything in the forum, just been tempted to--and also that he reads very little of the forum now.

XXXXErel what? Please be more clear like d*rn (as in darn). Thanks
C0ckerel. And yes, it would be edited, just like "pocket watch" would be without the space.

Om
2006-11-05, 05:33 PM
By the way, how do I get smilies on the new boards?
If you can't see them to the left then you have to change the editing options in your User CP.

fractal
2006-11-05, 05:34 PM
Redcloak is giving Miko a lot more trouble than I would have expected. We previously knew that he was at least level 9 (Slay Living), now we know he's at least level 13 (Destruction). (He also bolstered zombies from a likely level 11 Durkon, but given the state of Durkon's Charisma, that doesn't prove a whole lot.)

This doesn't bode well for Miko's ability to fight Xykon and his henchmen even to a draw. She'd better start running. What exactly are those watchtowers good for, anyway?

Sebastian
2006-11-05, 05:39 PM
Well, assuming Miko saved both times, and Redcloak is a L15, she's taken about 110 Damage. However, I want to know why she didn't get Attacks of Opportunity against those touch spells to both do damage and break his concentration.


Because casting defensively expecially at high levels is ludicrously easy.
if Redcloack is lev 15 he have 18 ranks of concentration, add, +2, +3 for Constitution (probably is even higher, expecially if he have an booster item) and the total is a 21. Automatic success for Harm, fail on a 1 for Destruction.
And this without even considering Combat Casting.

Sebastian
2006-11-05, 05:50 PM
Wow, Redcloak is awesome

He is in fact the man, one wonders why he didn't just Kill the order back in the throne room...

Maybe he wasn't so high a level then, let's not forget he did a lot from that time, escaping from the old dungeon, defeating the previous hobgoblin leader (more or less) cleaning Xykon's tower from all those pesky good critters, etc those are a lot of XPs.

Shea Landford
2006-11-05, 05:52 PM
lol. funny comic. but why?

Grunjon
2006-11-05, 07:43 PM
Okay, so Redcloak is "The bearer of the Crimson Mantle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0369.html)". Does that mean that there is also a "The bearer of the Sapphire/Azure Mantle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html)" among Xykon's forces? (see panel 16, with Redcloak and CitD in panel 18.) Is that guy the Hobgoblin version of Redcloak?

Atreyu the Masked LLama
2006-11-05, 08:52 PM
I just wanted to compliment you on the comic. The Candygram line was a nice touch but I'm waiting with baited breath for the outcome.

Felinoid
2006-11-05, 08:57 PM
that's just plain insulting to rich. He doesn't take stuff from the forums, and in fact is often malevolent to things said in the forum. he will often change the entire plotline because someone revealed it in a thread.
He used to, perhaps. But you can hardly argue that he is now when things said on the forums have been coming true. See also the bottom response.


Xykon is acting completely in character for what he's doing, particularly if you read the bonus content from Dungeon Crawling Fools. His betting is completely independent of a "betting thread" that occured in the forums.
I never said it was out-of-character. That was someone else. I just didn't find it as funny because of the possible source; my loss on an otherwise good joke.


I agree with idksocrates, this is an insult to Rich. Since you have no evidence that he's even aware of most of what is said in the forums (I read the forums, too, and I didn't know there was a betting thread until just now), you're just lobbing charges at him with no way to back it up. And frankly, even if the betting thread DID inspire it, which I find unlikely, the actual comic is almost nothing like that thread--unless the poster of that thread is actually a demon-roach, which I find equally unlikely. Finding inspiration is NOT the same thing as stealing material!

As far as other coincidences, are you referring to after-the-fact explanations of events? Because that just seems like good attention to detail to me. It strikes me as somewhat self-aggrandizing for forum posters to think that if Rich writes an explanation into a strip, it MUST be because THEY questioned it. Instead of, you know, he planned to explain it all along but he only has 10-12 panels every two days. A successful prediction of events is NOT the same thing as causing events!

Honestly, I think we should consider ourselves lucky Rich didn't see YOUR post, Felinoid, or he might shut the forum down just to prove that he isn't getting ideas from it.
Dude, chill. Taking material from a source is not the same as stealing it. Many authors take material from their everyday lives, and it is inspiration as you say. As for the self-aggrandizement, it's taken a month for me to finally come around to thinking it's even possible. If you'd been paying any attention to my previous posts (which is doubtful since I tend to blend into the background), you'd have noticed that I started on the thought that Rich was skillfully leading us around by the nose. Not to mention it's not exactly "self"-aggrandizing when I haven't predicted anything beyond the utterly obvious. :smallwink:

But the sheer number of the coincidences, combined with this one that isn't even connected to foreshadowing (or the possibility of intentional missing details) like the others...it makes me wonder. Especially after he's begun to post in the forum again, showing he does read at least some posts. I sincerely hope I'm wrong (the Chicken Little reference), but I can't help but worry. :smallfrown:

infiniteviking
2006-11-05, 09:16 PM
*delurks*
*heartily approves of all the changes made to the site and forum*
*fiddles with signature format*
*grins at the smilies*

Yay, Miko's back! I've got to say her forceful, single-minded Lawful Goodness and the comedic possibilities of her straightlaced personality make her my favorite antagonist. And Redcloak's complexity makes him a better foil for her than Xyklon. *falls over laughing at honor among thieves* Pwn 'em, Miko!!

Nice plot development, too. Now I really want to know where why Redcloak's apparently a legend among the Sapphire Guard. Great comic, Giant!


With Miko being more concerned about the "crimson mantle" than the Lich, I'm beginning to wonder just which of the two villains is really the more important.
Ooh. Interesting speculation!

fractal
2006-11-05, 09:33 PM
He used to, perhaps. But you can hardly argue that he is now when things said on the forums have been coming true. See also the bottom response.

I never said it was out-of-character. That was someone else. I just didn't find it as funny because of the possible source; my loss on an otherwise good joke.
Well, look at it this way. Do you find the OotS comics to still be good, apart from whatever (perhaps regrettable) connection with the forums they might have? If so, but the forums bother you, then I would suggest this: Stop reading the forums. Then, regardless of which way causality goes, it won't bother you. Unless you have some objection to enjoying work that may or may not have been created through the efforts of more than one person?

I personally don't much care for (actual) spoilers, and so with the improved predictions on the forums, I'm thinking of stopping reading them myself. I really only started once I got tired of translating Haley anyway.

Hyrael
2006-11-05, 09:55 PM
Unless the author wishes to deviate from the standard AD&D rules, waiting for Redcloak to be knocked out is too risky. With the magic weapons at these high levels, especially holy, Miko can do enough damage with a single strike to go right past 0 HP into -10 HP. Or at least so close that Xykon can't kill Miko then save Redcloak with a potion in time.

Sorcerers can't cast Raise Dead or the like and as Redcloak is the official leader of the hobgoblins, Xykon needs him alive. Xykon is not stupid or reckless. On the face of it, the comic doesn't make sense. However, we all know the author is better than this. Roll on next comic.

Perhaps he has a readied action to cast force cage or something if it looks like miko's next hit is goint to drop Redcloak? Or he has a scroll of Raise Dead and Ranks in UMD?

fractal
2006-11-05, 10:00 PM
Perhaps he has a readied action to cast force cage or something if it looks like miko's next hit is goint to drop Redcloak? Or he has a scroll of Raise Dead and Ranks in UMD?
Maybe the MitD gained a bunch of levels in Cleric from finishing off those Thin Mint cookies?

Felinoid
2006-11-05, 10:20 PM
Well, look at it this way. Do you find the OotS comics to still be good, apart from whatever (perhaps regrettable) connection with the forums they might have? If so, but the forums bother you, then I would suggest this: Stop reading the forums. Then, regardless of which way causality goes, it won't bother you. Unless you have some objection to enjoying work that may or may not have been created through the efforts of more than one person?

Yea, nay, and nay. I'm already hopelessly addicted to the forums (the speculation is even part of the fun for me). I just have an over-active imagination when it comes to bad scenarios. If it comes down to it and I do start losing appreciable enjoyment from the comic, I may quit the forums (save for any Haley translations I need), but as I said before, I'm hoping my fears are baseless. Rich still puts out a quality comic and likely will for many years.

Mr._Blinky
2006-11-05, 10:24 PM
Mr Blinky, there should be a box on the right side of the post box.

It's not appearing for me. *Sad Face (since I lack smilies)*

ozmar
2006-11-05, 10:25 PM
Take a look at comic #277 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0277.html). See the goblins being smote by the Sapphire Guard? One of them is dressed rather similarly to Redcloak, isn't he? Very simlilarly, in fact.


Rich's attention to detail and foresight is amazing. Note that Redcloak's "Crimson Mantle" is tattered and worn, and there's a missing corner which was lost in the forest near Lirian's Gate. And most impressive, that's how its been drawn since his first appearance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0023.html)!

Way to go, Rich! I'm lovin' this strip, and love the current plotline. Go Miko! :miko:

Nazzo, the 102nd
2006-11-05, 10:30 PM
It's not appearing for me. *Sad Face (since I lack smilies)*


Hey Blinky, maybe you haven't activated the advanced editor. You may go on your "User CP" (the first link on the top bar), then click on "Edit Options", then scroll all the way down and you see the config. Choose "Enhanced Interface" and there you go. :smallbiggrin:


On an unrelated note, are we getting a comic today (sunday night)? I'm confused, Rich said in the news page that he would run on a daily basis until this Miko/Xykon plotline is over... Not complaining or anything, just to know. Thanks! :smallbiggrin:

SPoD
2006-11-05, 10:53 PM
He used to, perhaps. But you can hardly argue that he is now when things said on the forums have been coming true.

So, you actually believe that, for example, Rich didn't know what Nale was planning to do to Elan until he looked in the forums and got an idea from what someone posted? That he started that entire plotline without any clue where it was going?

Come on. That's just ridiculous.


But the sheer number of the coincidences, combined with this one that isn't even connected to foreshadowing (or the possibility of intentional missing details) like the others...it makes me wonder.

Tell you what: You come up with a list of quotes from posters that guessed correctly, and I'll come up with a list that guessed wrong. If my list isn't at least ten times longer than yours, I'll concede that Rich is swiping ideas from posters. Deal?

On a similar note, I control the weather, because I predicted rain every day this month, and today it finally rained. AMAZING! How does she do it??


Especially after he's begun to post in the forum again, showing he does read at least some posts.

I haven't seen any posts from Rich in this forum that weren't directly related to either moderation or book availability, so I don't know what you're talking about. And I imagine the mod stuff gets PM'd to him.

Felinoid
2006-11-05, 11:12 PM
So, you actually believe that, for example, Rich didn't know what Nale was planning to do to Elan until he looked in the forums and got an idea from what someone posted? That he started that entire plotline without any clue where it was going?

Come on. That's just ridiculous.
Indeed it is ridiculous. Where did you come up with that one? I'm talking about the small stuff, most of which can be easily explained away by Rich intentionally leaving out details to correct later. Which is where my original theory about him leading us around by the nose came from. Like Nale saying, "What? Was I supposed to yell 'Sneak Attack' just there?" after the debate started over how Nale could kill the Chief in one hit. It can easily be explained by the Giant simply knowing the mechanics don't quite fit and leaving it to spark our inquisitive minds.

The number of these coincidences, though, I don't think can be ignored. "I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences..." And then this, seemingly unconnected to any possible foreshadowing, but happening around the same time as the betting pool, that has me slightly worried. But again, I'm only worried at the possibility. I do hope I'm wrong.

TinSoldier
2006-11-05, 11:33 PM
Perhaps he has a readied action to cast force cage or something if it looks like miko's next hit is goint to drop Redcloak? Or he has a scroll of Raise Dead and Ranks in UMD?Kudos on the Force Cage idea!

mikeejimbo
2006-11-05, 11:40 PM
Kudos on the Force Cage idea!

Actually, that's kind of ironic given the above discussion on the forum's influence on the comic.

Felinoid
2006-11-05, 11:55 PM
And, incidentally, not one of the things I'd attribute to it. There are only so many disabling spells to pick from, after all.

fractal
2006-11-06, 12:33 AM
Indeed it is ridiculous. Where did you come up with that one? I'm talking about the small stuff, most of which can be easily explained away by Rich intentionally leaving out details to correct later. Which is where my original theory about him leading us around by the nose came from. Like Nale saying, "What? Was I supposed to yell 'Sneak Attack' just there?" after the debate started over how Nale could kill the Chief in one hit. It can easily be explained by the Giant simply knowing the mechanics don't quite fit and leaving it to spark our inquisitive minds.
Looking more carefully, I think responding to forum issues in the comic has always been a part of how Rich structured it. The characters often speak as much to the readers as to the other strip characters.

For example, in comic 285, Roy reassures readers that Miko will never be a member of the OotS, while Miko informs the readers that she's a Paladin, like it or not. (These definitely seem aimed at the readers; Miko never expresses a desire to be in the OotS, and the Order (mostly) couldn't care less about Paladins.)

To go even further back, just check out the first panel of comic 36. Haley is talking to the readers, not the OotS (who are probably not unhappy about the turn of events).

I imagine there are many other examples, just not going to look for them atm. My point is, it's a long tradition of Rich's, and an integral part of how he writes the comics.

Solmage
2006-11-06, 03:48 AM
Combat descriptions give her 5 attacks, so she can't have more than BAB 15.



Meh, I said around lvl 17. 15 BAB = 14 pali levels (14) + 2 monk levels (1) . So 16 then. That's close enough.

Of course, if she doesn't have Improved Two Weapon Fighting then she is >BAB15, and thus would need to be lvl 18 or higher, but that'd be kinda silly to not have, since I believe her smite evil works for all attacks in that round, making that extra attack hurt, and land reliably.

Moechi_Vill
2006-11-06, 08:53 AM
Rich is very good at responding to the audience, yes. Thanks for the archival destinations.

It does seem strange however, that Roy thinks he has to tell her that. Must be compensation for his hormones acting up, she has never provided any inclination towards a such a desire. It is Rich speaking but the props acting it out are canon.

ozmar
2006-11-06, 09:54 AM
Okay, so Redcloak is "The bearer of the Crimson Mantle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0369.html)". Does that mean that there is also a "The bearer of the Sapphire/Azure Mantle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html)" among Xykon's forces? (see panel 16, with Redcloak and CitD in panel 18.) Is that guy the Hobgoblin version of Redcloak?

OMG! There is! Check it out! That's the exact same cloak, but its blue!

Coincidence? Copy-n-paste art? Or meticulous planning? Given Rich's track record, I'm inclined to believe that this is significant.

Good eyes, Grunjon!

-Ozmar the Less Observant

ozmar
2006-11-06, 10:09 AM
Looking more carefully, I think responding to forum issues in the comic has always been a part of how Rich structured it. The characters often speak as much to the readers as to the other strip characters.

For example, in comic 285, Roy reassures readers that Miko will never be a member of the OotS, while Miko informs the readers that she's a Paladin, like it or not. (These definitely seem aimed at the readers; Miko never expresses a desire to be in the OotS, and the Order (mostly) couldn't care less about Paladins.)

To go even further back, just check out the first panel of comic 36. Haley is talking to the readers, not the OotS (who are probably not unhappy about the turn of events).

I imagine there are many other examples, just not going to look for them atm. My point is, it's a long tradition of Rich's, and an integral part of how he writes the comics.

True. After all, "rooms without fourth walls are very popular in this comic strip." :smallbiggrin:

Zeb The Troll
2006-11-07, 02:19 AM
Meh, I said around lvl 17. 15 BAB = 14 pali levels (14) + 2 monk levels (1) . So 16 then. That's close enough.

Of course, if she doesn't have Improved Two Weapon Fighting then she is >BAB15, and thus would need to be lvl 18 or higher, but that'd be kinda silly to not have, since I believe her smite evil works for all attacks in that round, making that extra attack hurt, and land reliably.
She only needs to have a BAB of 11 to get 5 attacks per round with Improved Two Weapon Fighting.

Smite Evil only works on one attack though if she has 10 levels of paladin she could conceivably apply the bonus three times in the same round. Of course, then she'd be out of them for the day.

On an unrelated note, where are people getting Xylon as the lich's name instead of Xykon?

ozmar
2006-11-08, 12:59 PM
The bearer of the Crimson Mantle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0369.html)? :redcloak:

Does that mean we also have the...

...bearer of the Topaz Mantle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html)?

...bearer of the Jade Mantle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html)?

...bearer of the Ivory Mantle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0011.html)?

...bearer of the Dusky Mantle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0107.html)?

Or maybe the goblin/hobgoblin clerics all emulate the style of the Crimson Mantle out of reverence for their goblin deity?

Ozmar the Speculative