How does a wild-shaped Druid communicate?

[mcv]

What ways are there for a Druid in animal form to communicate with his party? Usually the reason I change back to human form is because I want to say something, thereby wasting one of my 3 wildshapes for that day.

So what ways are there for a Druid to say stuff to his buddies without having to change back?

[JaronK]

Gaining Telepathy in some way is easiest. Ghostwise Halfling as a race is fun that way.

JaronK

[SinsI]

At least some of the animal forms - if not all of them - should be able to speak.

And writing (if you are literate) works in most other cases (unless you have a Barbarian amongst your midst).

[Erik Vale]

Use bluffs ability to pass secret messages, they don't have to be particularly secret, but now your travelling company has hand/paw/shoulder/wing-signs.

Other than that, buy a wand of some kind. Or if you have enough wealth, Helm of telepathy and that mantle that lets you keep items while wild shaped. [But, given you total 3/day, I doubt you have the wealth. Wand still works.]

[TuggyNE]

Pearl of Speech, MIC, 600 (?) gp.

[mcv]

At least some of the animal forms - if not all of them - should be able to speak.
But I was hoping to change into a tiger or a bear, rather than a parrot.


And writing (if you are literate) works in most other cases (unless you have a Barbarian amongst your midst).
With claws? I suppose I could scratch in the dirt.

[DEMON]

Pearl of Speech, MIC, 600 (?) gp.

Pearl of Speech is cheese, though, when used in this way. By its fluff, it was used by Drow to communicate with their slaves without the need to learn their language.
It's intended to give you the ability to communicate (speak and understand) a specific language, provided you can already speak. It should not give you a power of speech itself. It's not worded in this way, though, so RAW, it might work. I, as a DM, would not allow this, however.

My suggestion: Linked (+6000 gp; MIC) Beastskin (+2 price; MIC) armor on you, Linked armor on other party members. Each wearer can active the armor 3/day for 1 hour and communicate with all other known wearers within 10 miles.

[WhatBigTeeth]

Perform: Mime

[mcv]

Use bluffs ability to pass secret messages, they don't have to be particularly secret, but now your travelling company has hand/paw/shoulder/wing-signs.
That's an interesting one. I'm not sure how hard it'd be to develop a sign language that would allow me to actually participate in discussions, though.


Other than that, buy a wand of some kind. Or if you have enough wealth, Helm of telepathy and that mantle that lets you keep items while wild shaped. [But, given you total 3/day, I doubt you have the wealth. Wand still works.]
Telepathy would be great, but that helm is way too expensive right now. And which mantle is that? I can't find anything that does that. (I am currently in the process of collecting enough money to buy a Wild Dragonskin Breastplate. Would that be a waste with that mantle?)

What kind of wand would I need? I've been thinking about suitable spells to cast (I've got Natural Spell of course), preferably low level.

Message isn't a Druid spell unfortunately, and I doubt it'd let me transmit anything other than growls.

It would be nice if Speak With Animals worked the other way around, but I doubt it does. I have spells to speak with all sorts of animals and plants, but not with humans. You'd think druids would have developed something for that.

[DEMON]

Telepathy would be great, but that helm is way too expensive right now.

In addition to the armor I suggested above, there is a Contact Medallion in MIC, that costs 3000 gp and allows you to communicate telepathically with 1 person within 1 mile for 1 minute.

So it's kinda like Linked armor lite. Usable with Wilding clasp, of course.

[Malroth]

or drop it on the ground, then wild shape and have your party members put it on you in tiger form

[Erik Vale]

First, try that Humans are biologically animals.
Second, Wand of Magic Mouth maybe [2nd level wizard, 1st bard, so you would need UMD...], possibly suggestion [Suggest that someone says 24 words that you would like to say. [Say .....] though I think you need to share a language.

Perhaps the psionic wand equivalent of Mindlink? [Or build it as a custom item formultiple uses/day. Allows you to gain telepathy with 1 creature two ways, allows you tp [member willing] speak through a party memeber.]

[Chilingsworth]

Well, you need two crappy feats and to lose a level of spellcasting, but the first level of Master of Many Forms (Complete Adventurer) gives the shifter's speach ability that let's you speak while in any form.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The cheapest solution is just casting speak with animals on your party members.

You could also go into Arcane Hierophant and take a level of Mindbender as part of the necessary arcane casting for 100ft telepathy.This also allows you to get Mindsight.

Hidden Talent gets you a single power from any list.Take Mindlink for 20min/day communication with a single ally for the cost of a feat.

Ask your wizard to cast (lesser) telepathic bond (or buy him a wand if he complains about it).

[hymer]

The cheapest solution is just casting speak with animals on your party members.

It's a Personal spell. Technically, i wouldn't work anyway, since it allows you to speak with animals, and the druid didn't change type when he shifted.

[Eldariel]

Medallion of Thought Projection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#medallionofThoughtProjection) is a reasonably cheap way if you manage to ignore the misleading sounds in your head. You can target it and simply project your thoughts.

The ultimate longterm Core solution is Telepathic Bond (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/telepathicBond.htm) but that's expensive. And yeah, writing in the dirt always works as does an accepted sign language.


Of course, having any party member or familiar with actual Telepathy also tends to work since you can Telepathically communicate with said party member who can relay your mind forward as desired.

[OracleofWuffing]

First, try that Humans are biologically animals.
I was thinking about this, too, however...

Animal Type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#animalType)
An animal is a living, nonhuman creature, usually a vertebrate with no magical abilities and no innate capacity for language or culture.
So, yeah, it only works if your party consists of Dwarves. Yuk yuk yuk.

Um... How about Wood Shape? Just carry a bunch of sticks with you and sculpt up a cursive "Yes," "No," or "Bear" when the situation comes up.

[mcv]

In addition to the armor I suggested above, there is a Contact Medallion in MIC, that costs 3000 gp and allows you to communicate telepathically with 1 person within 1 mile for 1 minute.
That would work (if it keeps working in animal form, that is), except I don't think we use MIC. I see people refer a lot to it here, but I have no idea what book that is. I think we only use stuff from the d20srd, but I could ask the DM.


So it's kinda like Linked armor lite. Usable with Wilding clasp, of course.
What is Wilding clasp?




First, try that Humans are biologically animals.
Second, Wand of Magic Mouth maybe [2nd level wizard, 1st bard, so you would need UMD...],
Interesting idea. Would be a bit weird to use it for normal communication, though. You'd think there'd be something easier, wouldn't you?


possibly suggestion [Suggest that someone says 24 words that you would like to say. [Say .....] though I think you need to share a language.
Could work, though again through a wand and UMD, I suppose.

I'm really hoping for something that would work easily with not too big an investment. Surely I'm not the first druid who likes to talk?


Perhaps the psionic wand equivalent of Mindlink? [Or build it as a custom item formultiple uses/day. Allows you to gain telepathy with 1 creature two ways, allows you tp [member willing] speak through a party memeber.]
I'm not sure that's allowed in our campaign, but I'll ask.



You could also go into Arcane Hierophant and take a level of Mindbender as part of the necessary arcane casting for 100ft telepathy.This also allows you to get Mindsight.
I don't really want to multiclass for this. I'm hoping for a spell I (or our wizard) already know or some affordable item. A feat, perhaps.


Hidden Talent gets you a single power from any list.Take Mindlink for 20min/day communication with a single ally for the cost of a feat.
Psionic and non-core, so probably not allowed. Also, it seems you need to take it on character creation.


Ask your wizard to cast (lesser) telepathic bond (or buy him a wand if he complains about it).
That's probably the best idea, and useful far beyond simply my communication, but we're only level 8 at the moment. And it lasts much shorter than my wild shape does.


The cheapest solution is just casting speak with animals on your party members.

Yeah, so far, Speak with Animals looks the most promising, if the DM is willing to be lenient. Although...


It's a Personal spell. Technically, i wouldn't work anyway, since it allows you to speak with animals, and the druid didn't change type when he shifted.
Now that's just unfair. I can't speak because I'm an animal, but I'm not enough of an animal to be spoken with through Speak with Animals? Is there some cosmic reason why druids aren't allowed to talk?

[Eldariel]

What is Wilding clasp?

An 8000gp item that can be attached to an item and allows a magic item to retain its normal function while in Wildshape.

The cursed item I posted is by far your cheapest option tho. Not many want cursed items so...

[mcv]

An 8000gp item that can be attached to an item and allows a magic item to retain its normal function while in Wildshape.

That's really useful. From which book is it?



Medallion of Thought Projection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#medallionofThoughtProjection) is a reasonably cheap way if you manage to ignore the misleading sounds in your head. You can target it and simply project your thoughts.
Using an item that's supposed to be all negative to work around a problem that can't seem to get fixed in any other way? I'm not sure the DM would allow that, but I'll ask.


The ultimate longterm Core solution is Telepathic Bond (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/telepathicBond.htm) but that's expensive.
We're one level short of that. And it might not last long enough.


And yeah, writing in the dirt always works as does an accepted sign language.
That's definitely the easiest way. I'll try that as long as I don't have anything better.


Of course, having any party member or familiar with actual Telepathy also tends to work since you can Telepathically communicate with said party member who can relay your mind forward as desired.
Now that you mention it, our wizard has a pseudragon familiar, and they're telepathic. Although my understanding is that only the wizard can send telepathically to the pseudodragon, while the pseudodragon can send telepathically to anyone. So unless we misinterpreted that, it doesn't really fix the problem.

[DEMON]

That's really useful. From which book is it?

MIC, Magic Item Compendium. Like my other suggestions. And it costs 4k there.


That's probably the best idea, and useful far beyond simply my communication, but we're only level 8 at the moment. And it lasts much shorter than my wild shape does.

the lesser version (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/spells/telepathicBondLesser.htm) is only level 3 and can be put in wands. Severe limitations, but can be used for conversation yon want to take part in and for combat purposes (1 casting will last for an hour, if CL 6; and will cost 13500 gp for 50 castings => 270 per casting).


Now that's just unfair. I can't speak because I'm an animal, but I'm not enough of an animal to be spoken with through Speak with Animals? Is there some cosmic reason why druids aren't allowed to talk?

Yeah... because they rock at everything else. And have more then enough wild shapes at later levels to go back to humanoid every now and then, if they really need to talk :smallamused:

[Eldariel]

That's really useful. From which book is it?

Magic Item Compendium.


Using an item that's supposed to be all negative to work around a problem that can't seem to get fixed in any other way? I'm not sure the DM would allow that, but I'll ask.

DMG actually encourages creative use of Cursed Items. Only Dust of Sneezing and Choking is really overpowered. The items don't exist just to **** people over; they also have the function of rewarding clever players who have figured out their actual function.


We're one level short of that. And it might not last long enough.

It's Permanenciable. The castings of Permanency can be bought if desired though that's expensive.


Now that you mention it, our wizard has a pseudragon familiar, and they're telepathic. Although my understanding is that only the wizard can send telepathically to the pseudodragon, while the pseudodragon can send telepathically to anyone. So unless we misinterpreted that, it doesn't really fix the problem.

Telepathy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#telepathy) is a two-way channel of communication. Your problems have vanished. The Pseudodragon can Telepathically discuss with you and relay your mind to others.

[SinsI]

But I was hoping to change into a tiger or a bear, rather than a parrot.
Birds have their uses - they have flight, are Tiny and might be hard to notice, etc.
Just cast Call Lightning and rain death on your enemies from the above!
Shouldn't be that much worse than a tiger or a bear.

With claws? I suppose I could scratch in the dirt.
Exactly that. Most land animals worth morphing into have sufficient limb agility to draw/write in dirt, etc.. You can also speak with your party using Morse code.

The problem is how to communicate if you are a fish...

[DEMON]

A parrot won't help with speaking anyway, it's right there in the SRD:


A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)

Emphasis mine.

[mcv]

I hadn't noticed d20srd also has spells listed outside the normal spell list. So this could work, although it still needs to be initiated by someone else. And it turns out the pseudodragon might actually be just as good there.

[quote]Yeah... because they rock at everything else. And have more then enough wild shapes at later levels to go back to humanoid every now and then, if they really need to talk :smallamused:
I'm not complaining about any general lack of power. It's just that this is a really weird, small and frustrating gap in the druid's abilities. Even in animal form, I have spells to talk with animals and plants. Wizards have spells to talk in all sorts of languages. But a druid in animal form has no way to talk with a wizard who speaks the same language. That's just a weird barrier.



Cool! So all I need now is a signal to tell the pseudodragon to talk telepathically to me. I assume he still needs to initiate the telepathic connection. This has suddenly turned very convenient.


[QUOTE=SinsI;14555940]Birds have their uses - they have flight, are Tiny and might be hard to notice, etc.
Yeah, but I can't change into tiny animals yet. I'm limiting to small animals, which basically means the eagle, as far as I can tell. (And I think I've developed a bit of a reputation as the Eagle Guy in the city, so turning into an eagle might not be all that stealthy for me anymore.)


Exactly that. Most land animals worth morphing into have sufficient limb agility to draw/write in dirt, etc.. You can also speak with your party using Morse code.

The problem is how to communicate if you are a fish...
If we're underwater, everybody has trouble talking, so then I'm not the only one left out. (So far, under water seems to be one of the many areas where the druid really, really shines, being the only one who can actually do stuff.)

[nedz]

An intelligent item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm) can do it, but they have to be quite powerful for telepathy.

Dip a PrC which gives you a domain (there are several).
Choose one of: Commerce, Community, Herald or Meditation.
They all have Tongues.
Or get someone to cast it on your (Dur.n 10 mins / CL)
Or acquire a custom item of it.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Arguably, Ghost Sound would work. I've had friends use a collar type item w/ at will ghost sound as a custom magic item to deal with this problem.

If you can use Pathfinder material, it's even easier, as they have a trait to add any 1 0-level spell to your class list, and cantrips/orisons in PF can be cast infinitely many times. PF also has a feat (requires having wildshape, like natural spell, so won't be able to get it until like 4 levels into gaining wildshape) to speak in wildshape form, but why waste a mid/high-level feat on that? :smallbiggrin:

[DEMON]

Dip a PrC which gives you a domain (there are several).
Choose one of: Commerce, Community, Herald or Meditation.
They all have Tongues.
Or get someone to cast it on your (Dur.n 10 mins / CL)
Or acquire a custom item of it.

I'd argue that Tongues, just as Pearl of Speech, imparts a knowledge of a language, rather than the ability of speech, if you don't have one. I know the exact wording is "This spell grants the creature touched the ability to speak and understand the language of any intelligent creature", but then the description goes on to "Tongues does not enable the subject to speak with creatures who don’t speak.". Again, this is, in my opinion cheesy, twisting what the spell actually does based on a not very good wording in the spell description.

[nedz]

I'd argue that Tongues, just as Pearl of Speech, imparts a knowledge of a language, rather than the ability of speech, if you don't have one. I know the exact wording is "This spell grants the creature touched the ability to speak and understand the language of any intelligent creature", but then the description goes on to "Tongues does not enable the subject to speak with creatures who don’t speak.". Again, this is, in my opinion cheesy, twisting what the spell actually does based on a not very good wording in the spell description.

The bolded bit indicates that someone else can not use Tongues to talk to you; so by RAW it seems fine. As for Cheesy, well: Druid.

[Jack_Simth]

Let's see... Wildshape 3/day suggests you're somewhere between Druid-7 and Druid-9. Got a party Wizard? Lesser Telepathic Bond (Spell Compendium page 219) is Sor/Wiz 3, and if your party Wizard casts it on you, you're good to talk to the party Wizard for the next hour or more. The party Wizard can then relay stuff.

[Deathkeeper]

I was beaten to it, but yeah, telepathy is a 2-way channel. In the fluff of pseudo dragons since 2nd edition they've been fond of following people and eventually offering their services if the person is grateful to the offer. Since they don't speak common and Draconic isn't a common language, clearly their telepathy goes both ways.
So I'd go and buy some bacon for that pseudodragon familiar, because he's going to be your best friend.

[Story]

You could get a Collar of Perpetual Attendance and tell your Unseen Servant to draw words on the ground.

[nedz]

Yeah Pseudodragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/pseudodragon.htm) — now that is real cheese :smallbiggrin:

60' Blindsense, 60' Darkvision and 60' Telepathy. Basically it's a party wide silent comms net with Blindsense.

[DEMON]

The bolded bit indicates that someone else can not use Tongues to talk to you; so by RAW it seems fine. As for Cheesy, well: Druid.

There's a difference between overpowered class abilities and a RAW reading of an ability making it do more than it's supposed to :smallwink:

RAW it would allow even a dumb (as in unable of speech) creature speak, which I also think is not RAI. YMMV

Still, I agree with you, that by RAW it works.

[mcv]

I'd argue that Tongues, just as Pearl of Speech, imparts a knowledge of a language, rather than the ability of speech, if you don't have one. I know the exact wording is "This spell grants the creature touched the ability to speak and understand the language of any intelligent creature", but then the description goes on to "Tongues does not enable the subject to speak with creatures who don’t speak.". Again, this is, in my opinion cheesy, twisting what the spell actually does based on a not very good wording in the spell description.

Looks like another sign that most the system doesn't really take into account that PCs can turn into animals.

[Gavinfoxx]

Pearl of Speech, MIC.

Amulet of Thought Projection, DMG.

[TuggyNE]

Pearl of Speech is cheese, though, when used in this way. By its fluff, it was used by Drow to communicate with their slaves without the need to learn their language.
It's intended to give you the ability to communicate (speak and understand) a specific language, provided you can already speak. It should not give you a power of speech itself. It's not worded in this way, though, so RAW, it might work. I, as a DM, would not allow this, however.

Hmm. I'd never considered it especially overpowered, and I know it was used for this purpose in a (low-op) PbP game I was in. *shrug*

[Tar Palantir]

It'd cost a couple of feats, but Shape Soulmeld: Shedu Crown plus Open Least Chakra (Crown) gets you telepathy, as well as immunity to bull rush.

[DEMON]

Hmm. I'd never considered it especially overpowered, and I know it was used for this purpose in a (low-op) PbP game I was in. *shrug*

I wouldn't go as far as to call it overpowered (though it does remove a minor limitation from an otherwise very powerful class). What I mean is that IMO, it's shouldn't work in the way it's advertized to work. Whether it's Pearl of Speech, Mask of Languages or Tongues spell, while it's in effect it should give you the ability to communicate in a particular language(s) in the same way you could communicate so far - i.e. it does not grant you the power of speech itself if you were incapable of speaking at all. (e.g. by using the Pearl of Speech, I could now speak Japanese in addition to Slovak and I would be able to understand their alphabets; but if I cast Tongues on an Assassin Vine we still wouldn't be able to communicate as this plant creature is not available of speech in the first place (just don't ask me how Speak with Plants works, I have no idea :smallbiggrin: ) ).

This is how it's handled at my table, but of course, everyone is entitled to their interpretations and rulings and the DM is the one to decide.