[PF] Magic Item creation question

[agentnone]

I'm having an issue convincing my DM that two characters can work together to create a magic item. I'm playing a Cleric and the Wizard in our group has the Scribe Scroll feat. In accordance with the rules, she should be able to scribe a scroll (Feat requirement) with me providing the spell (spell requirement. The PRD/pg 549 core rulebook reads:


Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).

But, he's saying that since I'm a divine caster, and she's arcane, it shouldn't work. Not for scrolls, or potions, or armor. Plus, at the beginning of the magic item tables, it says this (pg 461 core rulebook):


A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.

If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator's level must be known.

With those two things written in there for people to work together to make magic items, without any direct mention of a difference between arcane and divine spells having any effect on item creation, am I right in my understanding that even if I don't have any item creation feats, I can still help someone who does have one make their item. He's saying no (and I know, he's the DM he makes the rules) but as the RAW/RAI, it's pretty clear that the wizard can take the feats and the rest of the party can help without having to invest in them. Can anyone clear this up for?

Also, for a cookie, can anyone show me where it matters if the caster is divine or arcane? He seems to have it stuck in his head that the two different sources shouldn't be able to intermingle when making items unless the character has access to both. Thanks in advance folks.

-Agent

[Yogibear41]

I don't think there are any rules to prevent creating the item as you said in 3.5 perhaps your DM use to DM for an older version and is thinking of an older rule from that edition? Never played anything but 3.5 (and im still a noob :D) so wouldn't know.

However I think there is a rule about a character using a magic item that contains a spell he does not know. Such as the cleric using an arcane scroll or a wizard using a divine scroll, but even in this case I think all that is needed is a Use magic Device Check to succeed.

[DEMON]

But, he's saying that since I'm a divine caster, and she's arcane, it shouldn't work. Not for scrolls, or potions, or armor.

For scrolls, I wonder whether the resulting scroll would be divine or arcane. My guess is arcane, since the scriber is a Wizard (arcane caster). Should be no problem for other magic items, that have a prereq of a particular spell.


With those two things written in there for people to work together to make magic items, without any direct mention of a difference between arcane and divine spells having any effect on item creation, am I right in my understanding that even if I don't have any item creation feats, I can still help someone who does have one make their item. He's saying no (and I know, he's the DM he makes the rules) but as the RAW/RAI, it's pretty clear that the wizard can take the feats and the rest of the party can help without having to invest in them. Can anyone clear this up for?

Crafter provides the item creation feat, anyone in the group can provide the spell. Even a Rogue with a scroll and high enough UMD.


Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).


Also, for a cookie, can anyone show me where it matters if the caster is divine or arcane? He seems to have it stuck in his head that the two different sources shouldn't be able to intermingle when making items unless the character has access to both. Thanks in advance folks.


Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)

[agentnone]

In PF there's no distinction between magic items (even scrolls/wands) being arcane or divine. It works like if its on your spell list, regardless of where the scroll/wand came from you can use it without a UMD check. If you don't have a spell list, or you do but lack that spell, then a UMD is required.

But I'm not too worried about the arcane/divine distinction. I'm just trying to find out if my cleric can help a wizard make scrolls using cleric spells instead of wizard ones.

[gartius]

from the srd


These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.

So yes you can.

[Jeraa]

In PF there's no distinction between magic items (even scrolls/wands) being arcane or divine. It works like if its on your spell list, regardless of where the scroll/wand came from you can use it without a UMD check. If you don't have a spell list, or you do but lack that spell, then a UMD is required.

But I'm not too worried about the arcane/divine distinction. I'm just trying to find out if my cleric can help a wizard make scrolls using cleric spells instead of wizard ones.

Incorrect. Scrolls are divided between arcane and divine.


To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.

The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his class.)

So, for example, a wizard-scribed scroll of Darkness is an arcane scroll, and is unusable by a cleric. Likewise, a cleric-scribed scroll of Darkness is unusable by a wizard.