Character Idea: "Life-Wizard"

[Magenta]

Hello again!

I have been pondering on a character idea for a while, but though I have the thematic of the character pretty well nailed-down I am having some difficuty in finding a build that encompasses the idea wholly without being a burden for the group.

The idea itself:

A novice necromancer has become obsessed with the concept of eternal youth and has thus made it her quest to find a way of merging life and undeath into a single whole, thereby removing the less benificial affects of undeath. Both the immortality of elves and vampires are of great inspiration to her.

As a person she is quite vain. She has a very distinct perception of beauty and wishes to conform both herself and her surroundings to that aethestetic. Thereby she feels some schools of magic to be below her. Evocation is far too vulgar in its single-mindedness and Illusion is too insubstantial and flighty.

The build:

My thought is to begin as a specialist wizard (Necro with Evo and Illu as barred schools). The toublesome part is gaining power over life, which has to be divine magic.

One idea I had was making her a Wizard/Archivist/MysticTheurge. It could work seeing as I won't be making a blaster. Thematically it fits rather well too, as she can gather knowledge of divine magic just as scholarly as a wizard. However it feels like I might be paying too much for too little, as she is only interested in a select few divine spells.

Another option is to get the Arcane Disciple feat. It could give me the spells I want (as long as I can find fitting domain without a [Good] requirement). Thematically it is a bit less solid, seeing as she would be devoted to a god that most likely won't approve of her ultimate intentions. Then of course it is limited by Wisdom.

I considered a Wizard/Druid, as she could reason that the only way to be truly immortal is to be ever-changing like nature. But I can't come up with a build to make it work.

A minor hurdle is the fact that I would like her to have fairly good charisma. Partly to explain her vanity but also to make her more capable of deception. Being a Sorceress would make that beneficial, but it doesn't really fit with the scholarly approach...

Perhaps a Sorc/Arch/MysticTheurge?

*scrathes head*

[333]

If you do go druid, look at the Arcane Heirophant from races of the wild. It gives a few interesting abilities in addition to progressing Druid and Wizard/Sorceress casting.

[ArcturusV]

Yeah. The closest I can think of as a way around needing Divine Magic is the basis for the spell Clone.

I mean it is basically "Raise Dead, for Wizards" as is. Other than it's cheaper. And if you wanted to stick with strictly Arcane Magic that would be the basis to work with. Replaces your body. Transfers your soul into new said body. The only problem is the key about "Exact copy of..." that means it won't work for the eternal youth angle as your 80 year old crone will have an 80 year crone clone.

But it's an interesting basis. If I was DMing it I would give seriously consideration to using a few spells or researching a new spell that would allow you to alter the Clone a bit to return to a more youthful, vibrant body.

Of course you'd have to kill yourself every time you wanted to do this as you can't possess the new body until you're dead. But create the clone, go slash your own throat. Painful memories but it gets the job done.

It'd all be a question of HOW. Maybe a variation of Slow which you can cast as part of the Cloning spell/process that will retard the growth/aging of the clone at a certain point? Eh. Windmilling.

I don't have access to the full library of printed Arcane Magics either. So that hinders my theories. But there is that basis in Arcane Magic meaning you may not have to dip.

[Magenta]

Of course you'd have to kill yourself every time you wanted to do this as you can't possess the new body until you're dead. But create the clone, go slash your own throat. Painful memories but it gets the job done.

What? Nononono. It would have to be poison, naturally.

Just out of curiosity... what do you recon would happen if I tried making an intelligent undead out of my former body?

[ArcturusV]

Depends on the type? I mean usually the details about creating powerful undead with particular skill sets involves bonding the soul of a powerful entity into the body. Obviously not going to be your soul. Unless... I dunno, you came up with some Necromantic Spell which split your soul into two pieces and used half your soul to power the uber undead.

... I don't know the particulars on it... but I had a really weird recursion loop going on in my head.

You create a Clone. You create a spell to make yourself into a Lich. You kill yourself and use the Clone as your Phylactery.... two of you running around? At the very least if someone kills your Lich, instead of having some little object to hide in until you can rebuild a body you have a fully functional body to inhabit?

Would require preserving your clone while you're Liching in some way. First level Gentle Repose cleric spell if I remember right?

Or it could leave you in a situation where your Phylactery is a fully operational PC just like you were before you became a Lich. And you have a Lich self which is a free willed undead with all your powers plus Undead Bonuses...

... It's weird and I'd have to look up the possible interactions.

[Zanthy1]

Yeah. The closest I can think of as a way around needing Divine Magic is the basis for the spell Clone.

I mean it is basically "Raise Dead, for Wizards" as is. Other than it's cheaper. And if you wanted to stick with strictly Arcane Magic that would be the basis to work with. Replaces your body. Transfers your soul into new said body. The only problem is the key about "Exact copy of..." that means it won't work for the eternal youth angle as your 80 year old crone will have an 80 year crone clone.

But it's an interesting basis. If I was DMing it I would give seriously consideration to using a few spells or researching a new spell that would allow you to alter the Clone a bit to return to a more youthful, vibrant body.

Of course you'd have to kill yourself every time you wanted to do this as you can't possess the new body until you're dead. But create the clone, go slash your own throat. Painful memories but it gets the job done.


Clone yourself while you are young, and somehow put the body in perfect stasis. Then when your current body gets too old, transfer all your knowledge into the cloned body, and go from there.

Alternatively, go the Orochimaru path from Naruto, and just mind transfer with a strapping young body

[lunar2]

the only RAW way to do this without dips, homebrew, or 3rd party material is to use wish to craft a contingent reincarnate, with the contingency being you die. then kill yourself. you lose a level, but you are now a young adult (whatever). another wish, iirc, can restore your original race, and you will still be a young adult. alternatively, a polymorph any object might return you to your original race with a permanent duration.

a little further out is PAO into a younger version of yourself. it's definitely permanent duration, but the question is whether you count as the age of your polymorphed form or your normal form for maximum age.

[Larkas]

Now THIS is a legitimate reason to go Ur-Priest! "The gods won't give me immortality? Well, I'll take my immortality by force!" Take a level in Ur-Priest, advance the rest of the class via Mystic Theurge and you're set. Call yourself a "Biomancer"*. :smallbiggrin:

* I was just recently trying to find a way to fit Healing spells back into the Necromancy school without it being contradictory (Necro is the Greek word for "death"). I came up with the name Biomancy (Bio is being the Greek word for "life"). In this world, Archivists that specialize in healing magic will be called Biomancers! :smallbiggrin:

[Jack_Simth]

The build:

My thought is to begin as a specialist wizard (Necro with Evo and Illu as barred schools). The toublesome part is gaining power over life, which has to be divine magic.No, it doesn't.

There are lots of ways around it. Arcane Disciple can get you some standard healing spells; however... Wizards can get some arcane healing even without such steps. False Life and Vampiric Touch are obvious (although not true healing); however, the vampiric weapon property (magic item compendium) really is true healing. Clone gets you a form of Raise Dead; Healing Touch (Spell Compendium page 111) combines well with False Life or Vampiric Touch; Kiss of the Vampire (Spell Compendium 128) lets you heal from negative energy... and gives you an enervation touch attack (which you can use on yourself to get temp HP, technically; Shroud of Undeath lasts longer and is lower level, but doesn't come with the touch attack; Veil of Undeath is also worth a look); Light of Venya (Spell Compendium 132) can heal directly (and note that arcanists aren't restricted by the type of spell); Stone Body (Spell Compendium 207) lets Transmute Mud to Rock heal you completely; Synostodweomer (Spell Compendium 218) lets you convert other spells to healing spells. Then there's things like Steal Life (Book of Vile Darkness page 106) which actually make you younger (at the expense of someone else... oh well).

Additionally, certain creatures accessible via Summon Monster (or Planar Binding) have healing abilities that you can take advantage of.

[Magenta]

No, it doesn't.

Just shows how much I know ^^

Well, I guess I wouldn't be asking for help if I knew it all myself!


Then there's things like Steal Life (Book of Vile Darkness page 106) which actually make you younger (at the expense of someone else... oh well).

Too bad it's so evil though... I wonder if it is in any way possible to keep a neutral alignment while doing things like that.

Mmm... Maybe I'll just settle for the character BELIEVING she's neutral ;P

[ArcturusV]

Heh. Neutral by balancing. You are torturing people and stealing their very life essence to keep yourself immortal and young. But on the other hand you sometimes feed stray cats and rescue them, giving them to deserving families with little children. :smallbiggrin:

I still like the Clone idea. Not because it's the best. I'm sure it's not the best. Wish being a spell is probably the best option (Who cares about the XP cost, you were losing that level anyway!). But Clone has the best flavor to it. Just screams out madness and obsession in a way the others don't.

[Slipperychicken]

Why not Archivist? Scholarly, all divine magic, access to enough arcane that it hardly matters. Glibness through Divine Bard list, and Guidance of the Avatar can make you deceptive as all get-out.

And why not just pay someone to Raise you whenever you die?

Similarly, just work with your DM and research the spell you want. You could also port over Youthful Appearance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/y/youthful-appearance), a 1st level Sorc/Wiz. Combo that with some means of actual immortality like Clone or Rez and you're all set to be forever young.

Remember that casting Evil spells doesn't make you Evil. A Good character can do Evil acts yet still maintain her alignment, just like an Evil one might do Good acts and remain Evil.

[Jack_Simth]

Just shows how much I know ^^

Well, I guess I wouldn't be asking for help if I knew it all myself!



Too bad it's so evil though... I wonder if it is in any way possible to keep a neutral alignment while doing things like that.Sure there is. Don't drain your victims to death, pay them for their time, and pay for six castings of Restoration for them after the fact to wipe away all the damage you did to them.

A single act does not your alignment define, and this is the sort of thing you'd really only need to cast about once a year (a stock human commoner-1, with the standard NPC array of all 10's and 11's, can feed you 59 points without actually dying [10 Str, 10 Dex, 10 Int, 10 Cha, 10 Wis, 9 con], which makes you 59 weeks younger; there's slightly more than 52 weeks in a standard year). Market price for a six caster level 7 castings of Restoration is 2,280 gp (compare to a single caster level 13 Greater Restoration at 3,410 gp). So if you cast the Steal Life spell yourself, pay for the restoration spells when you're done, and pay the commoner-1 a enormous sum (to the commoner...) of, say, 2,720 gp, then you've spent 5,000 gp to add over a year to your life, and other than the alignment descriptor on the spell, you've done nothing wrong - your target knew what (s)he was in for, is no worse off than when (s)he started, and has something like five or more years' income for an hour's pain (Commoner-1 with Skill Focus(Craft(Whatever)) and max ranks in the associated Craft skill, taking ten, gets a result of 17, which gives 8.5 gp/week, or 442 gp/year for 6.15 years' worth of income; a masterwork tool would add 52 gp/year to that, making it 'only' 5.5 years' income; for an "untrained hireling" the going rate of 1 sp/day makes for just 36.5 gp/year; that's a 74.5 year income on the commoner's take home).

Tell me: Which is more likely to make adventurers come knocking down your door: stories in the area that someone goes mysteriously missing once a year on the night of a full moon (kidnapping & killing to live longer), or a commoner, healthy and happy, going into a bar, buying a round for the entire house, and telling all his friends about how he pretty much got enough money to retire on for one hour's work last night - extremely painful work, granted, but safe work (what happens with the above).

Alternately, be a local ruler, and use the spell to execute criminals who have been lawfully convicted of something execution-worthy.

It's not that hard to spin the action into something that's not overly evil, even keeping with the fluff of the spell and the vile nature that comes with it.

[Slipperychicken]

As for the commoner you drain, I recommend junkies/addicts. They'll do anything for a fix, so you could get away with paying a lot less (especially if you pay directly in "the stuff"). Depending on how expensive his fix is, and how badly he needs it, a few hundred gold would probably suffice.

[Magenta]

I still like the Clone idea. Not because it's the best. I'm sure it's not the best. Wish being a spell is probably the best option (Who cares about the XP cost, you were losing that level anyway!). But Clone has the best flavor to it. Just screams out madness and obsession in a way the others don't.

Mmmhmm! :smallamused:


Why not Archivist? Scholarly, all divine magic, access to enough arcane that it hardly matters. Glibness through Divine Bard list, and Guidance of the Avatar can make you deceptive as all get-out.

I thought Archivists could only learn divine magic? Non-cleric spells from scrolls, but still only divine?


Sure there is. Don't drain your victims to death, pay them for their time, and pay for six castings of Restoration for them after the fact to wipe away all the damage you did to them.

It's not that hard to spin the action into something that's not overly evil, even keeping with the fluff of the spell and the vile nature that comes with it.

True! How do I get around this though: "Location Component: An area under the effect of a desecrate or unhallow spell."?

[Jack_Simth]

Mmmhmm! :smallamused:



I thought Archivists could only learn divine magic? Non-cleric spells from scrolls, but still only divine?

By a curious quirk of the scroll creation rules, any scroll can be arcane, and any scroll can be Divine. The way to make it happen is to have a divine caster and an arcane caster collaborate. If the Divine caster pays the XP, it's a Divine spell. If the Arcane caster pays the XP, it's an Arcane spell - irrespective of who's providing the spell. And the Archivist gets Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat.

A little more specifically, you combine:

The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)(emphasis added)
With:

Prerequisites

Certain requirements must be met in order for a character to create a magic item. These include feats, spells, and miscellaneous requirements such as level, alignment, and race or kind. The prerequisites for creation of an item are given immediately following the item’s caster level.

A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.

If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator’s level must be known. The character designated as the creator pays the XP required to make the item.

Typically, a list of prerequisites includes one feat and one or more spells (or some other requirement in addition to the feat).

When two spells at the end of a list are separated by "or," one of those spells is required in addition to every other spell mentioned prior to the last two. (emphasis added)

Thus, if an Archivist and a Wizard get together, they can create a divine scroll of any spell the Wizard knows.


True! How do I get around this though: "Location Component: An area under the effect of a desecrate or unhallow spell."?
Hire a Cleric or Druid *once* to cast Unhallow on your basement workshop? It's an Instant effect, and lasts until someone casts Hallow there. Alternately, buy a Darkskull (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#darkskull).

[lunar2]

archivists can learn any spell scribed onto a divine scroll. the archivist that knows greater anyspell can prepare any arcane spell of 5th level or lower, and then scribe a scroll of that spell. since the spell was scribed by an archivist, the scroll is divine. the archivist then adds the (now divine) spell to her spellbook.

also, isn't there a feat in shining south that lets a wizard treat her spells as divine? there, the archivist just got all wizard spells.

stuff like this is why it's weird for people to say wizards are the most powerful class, when for a little cheese, archivists can do anything a wizard can do.

also, there is another way to get divine scrolls of arcane spells. miracle to craft the scroll, problem solved.

[Slipperychicken]

I thought Archivists could only learn divine magic? Non-cleric spells from scrolls, but still only divine?


They can only learn Divine Spells, but they can access many of the same spells through ACFs, obscure classes, and domain lists which let them count as Divine. Divine Bard ACF, for example, can get Bard spells to count as Divine, travel Domain gets you Dimension Door and Teleport, and so on. If you're willing to do the book diving (or just look up some Archivist handbook with a complete list), you can access enough "normally arcane" spells to basically be a Wizard+.