Outsider Type - Does it give as much as it says it does?

[Sudain]

I'm making a lvl 6 wizard and (1/4) half-fiend as per http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031010a

I looked at the outsider type and the benefits are nice, but I'm not sure I get all of them just for being 1/4 half-fiend.

Yea/Nay?

Outsider Type
An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane. Some creatures start out as some other type and become outsiders when they attain a higher (or lower) state of spiritual existence.

Features
An outsider has the following features.

8-sided Hit Dice.
Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter).
Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.
Skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.
Traits
An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.

[Volthawk]

Well, you get the traits (darkvision, not needing to eat or sleep, etc.), but not the hit die, BAB, saves and skills - they're for racial hit die.

[Urpriest]

You get the traits, but not the features. The features are for Outsider Hit Dice, as a Half-Fiend you have none. Read my Monster Handbook (link in sig) to learn more about this sort of thing.

[WhatBigTeeth]

8-sided Hit Dice.
Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter).
Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.
Skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

^This stuff only applies to Outsider Hit Dice, which you won't have if you're a wizard dipping half-fiend.

Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.
This is the stuff you will have from the dip. It's lackluster enough that the level you'd burn on grabbing those abilities would be pretty conspicuously better spent on more wizard.

[Sudain]

Thank you guys, I thought that was a wee bit powerful.

I agree, I want to skip half-fiend and not take it at all but the group wants me to have a LA+1 and this was the best we could find after a long good look.

[StreamOfTheSky]

The proficiency with all martial weapons is an overlooked gem. You can potentially use it to enter prestige classes that designers intended you to have to pay a lost CL by way of multiclassing in order to qualify for.

[KillianHawkeye]

What the heck is a 1/4 half-fiend?? :smallconfused:

[WhatBigTeeth]

What the heck is a 1/4 half-fiend?? :smallconfused:
I'd guess a character with 1 level in the 4-level template class.

[Flickerdart]

I'd guess a character with 1 level in the 4-level template class.
That would be a 1/8 fiend. A bit-fiend, if you will.

[TuggyNE]

That would be a 1/8 fiend. A bit-fiend, if you will.

There's a poster with that name... now I know what they are!

:smalltongue:

[GenericMook]

The real power of the Outsider type is that it adds on another type that you can change into with Polymorph-type spells. Stuff like Pit Fiends and Balors become available.

Plus, lots of Outsider forms come with flight and pretty nice nat armor boosts. A couple of 'em have nice abilities.

That, and the proficiency makes the Outsider type probably the best for Wizards and Sorcerers.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'd guess a character with 1 level in the 4-level template class.

I thought once you started taking it, you had to take them all, though........

[Crake]

The real power of the Outsider type is that it adds on another type that you can change into with Polymorph-type spells. Stuff like Pit Fiends and Balors become available.

Plus, lots of Outsider forms come with flight and pretty nice nat armor boosts. A couple of 'em have nice abilities.

That, and the proficiency makes the Outsider type probably the best for Wizards and Sorcerers.

most of the spells that have those forms within their HD limit dont have type restrictions anyway though..

[GenericMook]

most of the spells that have those forms within their HD limit dont have type restrictions anyway though..

Polymorph/Draconic Polymorph do. It's probably the best option for superior physical ability scores before Polymorph Any Object and Shapechange come online.

[Story]

Does it have to be 1/4 Half Fiend or can it be any LA +1 race? Because there are definitely better ones.

For example, Primordial Half Giant nets you +4 Int.

[WhatBigTeeth]

I thought once you started taking it, you had to take them all, though........
The monster classes in Savage Species and the template classes in the Savage Progressions article series look identical, but follow different mechanics. Horrible but true.

[nedz]

I thought once you started taking it, you had to take them all, though........
You do, but you can delay the later levels — possibly indefinitely — which means that: no you don't.

The real power of the Outsider type is that it adds on another type that you can change into with Polymorph-type spells. Stuff like Pit Fiends and Balors become available.

Plus, lots of Outsider forms come with flight and pretty nice nat armor boosts. A couple of 'em have nice abilities.

That, and the proficiency makes the Outsider type probably the best for Wizards and Sorcerers.

*cough*Alter Self*cough*

[Diarmuid]

How would any of this apply or not for the FR feat "Otherworldly" ?

I know the hit dice stuff wouldn't apply, but would the martial weapon proficiencies?

[Amnestic]

How would any of this apply or not for the FR feat "Otherworldly" ?

I know the hit dice stuff wouldn't apply, but would the martial weapon proficiencies?

Should do, I think. I guess it's not used more 'cos it's a regional feat (thus possibly a little questionable) and it has some racial restrictions - though Elf is on there so...Maybe because it's a feat at all and feats are precious?

[Urpriest]

Should do, I think. I guess it's not used more 'cos it's a regional feat (thus possibly a little questionable) and it has some racial restrictions - though Elf is on there so...Maybe because it's a feat at all and feats are precious?

It does get mentioned occasionally. It's considered a bit cheesy, but I'm honestly not sure why.

[Vaz]

Possibly something along the lines of PAO/Draconic PMorph into a Balor/Pit Fiend/Nycaloth/Solar