How much gold should a party expect per session?

[Con_Brio1993]

So I have been playing a game of DND that has been going on for 9 sessions (1 game per week for 9 weeks).

For 8 of the sessions the party has gotten less than 1500 gold combined, and no valuable loot. Last session we got a cloak of resistance, a ring of protection, and some +2 Longbow, and +1 bracers. Most of that gear went to one of the party characters. We are all level 4-5 characters at this point. Is this kind of poverty supposed to be the norm? Does the DM guide mention at all how much gold should be rewarded per session?

[Invader]

So I have been playing a game of DND that has been going on for 9 sessions (1 game per week for 9 weeks).

For 8 of the sessions the party has gotten less than 1500 gold combined, and no valuable loot. Last session we got a cloak of resistance, a ring of protection, and some +2 Longbow, and +1 bracers. Most of that gear went to one of the party characters. We are all level 4-5 characters at this point. Is this kind of poverty supposed to be the norm? Does the DM guide mention at all how much gold should be rewarded per session?

It's really up to the DM but that's def way lower than the average WBL for a 4-5th lvl character. It's assumed that characters have an appropriate level of wealth to handle challenges of a specific level so if your DM isn't over taxing the parties current resources its hard to say that he should be giving you more wealth.

[ArcturusV]

Page 136 of the DMG has the "Wealth by Level" chart. Which isn't exactly an accurate idea. But it gives you a baseline for what the game presumes players should have in items and assets at certain points.

Of course mileage varies. And having things like the guy who invests in a lot of non-combat, Roleplay based gold sinks is likely to be behind the curve (Or ahead depending on how it goes I suppose), certain classes need more for magic items and the like.

But it's a good base guideline for you to fiddle with.

[Friv]

There's a standard amount of wealth that characters are expected to have in order to be balanced against monsters.

Under that chart, and assuming you're playing 3.5, each player should have somwhere in the 5,000-10,000 range of equipment right now. A +2 Longbow is worth about 8,000 GP, and would be one player's entire WBL. Depending on whether the cloak and ring are +1 or +2, they're worth either a thousand / two thousand, or four thousand / eight thousand, and the bracers are also a thousand. Which would put your party's total wealth at 12,000 - 21,000. 21,000 would be about right for a level 4 party of four characters.

So it sounds like one of your party members may be hoarding more than their fair share of the wealth, if the guy with the bow took anything else. It also sounds like your DM is preferring to give you guys a small number of powerful items instead of a large number of weak items, and possibly that he's already modifying the game to have a lower treasure output in general.

[prufock]

I follow the wealth by level table as a guideline, giving out however much wealth the party is expected to gain between levels. I almost always do custom pregenerated treasure instead of using random treasure tables.

Between levels 4 and 5 you should gain approximately 4000 gp per person.


Last session we got a cloak of resistance, a ring of protection, and some +2 Longbow, and +1 bracers.
That's 1000 + 2000 + 8500 + 1000 = 12.5K worth of items + 1500 gp = 14K. If you have 4 players that's 3.5K each, which is pretty well on target.

Of course if you're using random loot and much of it is useless to the party, count items as half, because that's what you get for resale.

[Con_Brio1993]

There's a standard amount of wealth that characters are expected to have in order to be balanced against monsters.

Under that chart, and assuming you're playing 3.5, each player should have somwhere in the 5,000-10,000 range of equipment right now. A +2 Longbow is worth about 8,000 GP, and would be one player's entire WBL. Depending on whether the cloak and ring are +1 or +2, they're worth either a thousand / two thousand, or four thousand / eight thousand, and the bracers are also a thousand. Which would put your party's total wealth at 12,000 - 21,000. 21,000 would be about right for a level 4 party of four characters.

So it sounds like one of your party members may be hoarding more than their fair share of the wealth, if the guy with the bow took anything else. It also sounds like your DM is preferring to give you guys a small number of powerful items instead of a large number of weak items, and possibly that he's already modifying the game to have a lower treasure output in general.

The cloak is +2, the bracers and ring +1.

As for the majority of items going to one of the characters, they aren't really hoarding them perse. Just most of the items fit that character better. The longbow for example was a weapon only the party fighter could wield without a penalty.

Anyway I suppose we haven't had much of a problem with encounters, so I shouldn't really complain. But I fear that at the current rate encounters will boil down to 4/5th of the party sitting back and being support to our lone fighter who is the only one with the stats (we rolled for stats and the fighter got no stat below 16) and magic items to be able to hit the enemy creatures.

[Gavinfoxx]

http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/

Use that to determine gold per encounters...

[J-H]

Manipulating the loot given to the party can also be a way to help the party stay balanced. If you have a druid, a wizard, a fighter-archer, and a rogue, it would be reasonable to slant things so that the fighter & rogue "found" more useful gear to help them keep up with the Tier 1 classes.

What are the other character classes at the table?

[Con_Brio1993]

Manipulating the loot given to the party can also be a way to help the party stay balanced. If you have a druid, a wizard, a fighter-archer, and a rogue, it would be reasonable to slant things so that the fighter & rogue "found" more useful gear to help them keep up with the Tier 1 classes.

What are the other character classes at the table?

We have: A monk, a bard, a fighter, a cleric (who isnt showing up to an increasing number of sessions), and a rogue.

I feel bad for the monk. They can barely hit anything and when they do they deal pitiful damage. Meanwhile the fighter is hitting everything and power attacking and taking off huge chunks of enemy health per swing.

[J-H]

Ok, so no tier 1s except an absentee cleric. Not everyone's job is to hit enemies with sticks.

The bard's main job is buffing others and using mind effects on the opposition so other people can hit them.

If the monk took Improved Grapple as one of his bonus feats, he should do OK grappling enemies. When he hits level 6, he can take Improved Trip (bonus feat) and if his STR is 15 or over, get Knockdown - free trip attempt any time he does 10 or more damage with a melee attack. If he's having trouble hitting, maybe he should not use Flurry - just run in, make an attack, then next round, attack and then tumble away (no AOOs if he can make a DC 15 tumble check).

Make sure your party is taking advantage of the +2 flanking bonus you get for ganging up on someone after the fighter charges in to hit them...

[Con_Brio1993]

Ok, so no tier 1s except an absentee cleric. Not everyone's job is to hit enemies with sticks.

The bard's main job is buffing others and using mind effects on the opposition so other people can hit them.

If the monk took Improved Grapple as one of his bonus feats, he should do OK grappling enemies. When he hits level 6, he can take Improved Trip (bonus feat) and if his STR is 15 or over, get Knockdown - free trip attempt any time he does 10 or more damage with a melee attack. If he's having trouble hitting, maybe he should not use Flurry - just run in, make an attack, then next round, attack and then tumble away (no AOOs if he can make a DC 15 tumble check).

Make sure your party is taking advantage of the +2 flanking bonus you get for ganging up on someone after the fighter charges in to hit them...

The monk is new to the game, and does not have any grapple skills. Actually the monk player also rolled poorly and I think they only have a strength of 14.

[J-H]

Have you talked to the DM about the imbalance in party capabilities?

[Con_Brio1993]

Have you talked to the DM about the imbalance in party capabilities?

I've brought it up one or two times, but honestly everyone seems to be having a good time so I stopped bringing it up.

It is also kind of hard to bring up directly. The DM thinks monks are actually good as a class (i think he does at least), and since the monk player is new I don't want to just directly state "you can do no damage and have no social skills or any way to contribute. You're dead weight."

[nedz]

Every game is different, the WBL guide is just a guide.

Some DM's try to run low wealth games because they think that it balances the game a little — this is false, but the belief exists.

It is also very common for wealth to be way above, or below, the average at different stages in a campaign; this is more likely at the lower levels.

That said it's very common for parties to miss half the loot, even experienced players can do this.

[Story]

Do you have any tips for finding the loot? Or is it strongly DM dependent?

[Slipperychicken]

It should depend on how many encounters you bang through each session. Also, some DMs really like keeping the PCs poor. As in "magic sword, magic armor, spellbook, anything else means you're a rules-contortionist/anti-roleplaying munchkin".

[nedz]

Do you have any tips for finding the loot? Or is it strongly DM dependent?

It's very strongly DM dependent — and there might not have been any for you to miss.
But if stuff is hidden you need search rolls, which low level characters are not so good at.
Also Monsters/NPCs are more likely to escape — with their stuff.
Tracking monsters back to their lair is also fairly classic, but requires survival rolls.

[ericgrau]

The fighter is supposed to be the hardest hitter regardless. That's all he does. Though he's also the most item dependent so he did get an advantage.

Monks are not supposed to be hard hitters; that's what fighters are for. It's a shame he didn't pick up improved grapple with a fighter in the party. His damage wouldn't change while the grappled enemy's damage would go way down. And the foe's flat-footed AC when grappling making him a great target for the fighter's power attack and the rogue's sneak attack. Stunning fist will be hard to pull off with a high stat of a 14. Or did another foolish monk put wisdom first? When now not only is he unable to hit to do damage, he can't even hit to stun and his wisdom is irrelevant. When he hits level 6 have him get improved trip. A flurry of trip attempts is bound to make at least 1 foe fall, if not multiple foes. That will drop the opponent's AC and attack bonus by 4 making him easier for both the fighter and monk to hit and the monk will make a solid contribution. This does mean that the monk will have to learn some special attack rules. A new player shouldn't pick up a monk for this reason but now that he has lend him a hand and run him through the tripping rules.

A bard should be fine with proper spells with or without gear. And he has skills. After laying down a glitterdust or grease he can tumble and flank to help others hit harder. Likewise he plays support and can contribute even if he isn't the biggest damage dealer.

A rogue likewise has skills and can flank too. He's fragile in melee and so in the end doesn't contribute as much damage as others, but his huge number of skills makes up for it. So as long as the DM has social and dungeon skill based challenges the bard and rogue shouldn't feel left out. If he doesn't, then suggest it to him for their sakes.

Your DM should eventually provide some items that the others can use like ability score boosting items, scrolls, wands and much later skill boosting items. But I think the party should do fine for now even with the lopsided treasure as long as the other 3-4 classes are willing to fill other roles in addition to direct fighting.

[Gavinfoxx]

Finding all the gear? Get all the knowledge skills, and Take 10 on knowledge for everything. Get high search and spot, and various supernatural senses, and take 10 on that stuff too. Ask what stuff is made out of, have a solid heuristic for searching everything 'notable' you come across (and particular parts of hallways and rooms that might have secret doors), be sure to both take 10 and then roll on search and spot. Remember, taking 10 doesnt take any extra time, and you can do it when there is chance for catastrophic failure, and it doesn't assume failure happens; you just can't do it in combat or high winds and stuff (all that weird stuff about assuming a 1 or whatever is for taking 20).