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Archpaladin Zousha
2013-01-20, 01:28 AM
To sort of explain the weird title, I'm interested in building an Aldori Swordlord (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/aldori-swordlord) (as in the Prestige Class from Paths of Prestige) that doesn't start as a Fighter utilizing the Aldori Swordlord (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/aldori-swordlord-brevoy) modifications to the Fighter class in the Inner Sea Primer.

I realize these two are really designed to go well together, but what I would like is to create a Swordlord that gets some use out of having a high Charisma, which is traditionally a dump stat for Fighters.

Obviously such a character would have to be a Human or Half-Elf, as feats would be precious with this build without the Fighter to shore them up. Paladins and Bards are probably the best Charisma-based classes that aren't full spellcasters like the Oracle, Sorcerer or Summoner. On the other hand, Paladins and Bards get spells too, so taking the AS prestige class cuts that (this is the same problem I have with Battle Heralds. You're neutering your bard spellcasting potential, and with classes that have limited spellcasting every spell is precious).

Can it be done? Should it be done? My reasoning is because the Aldori Swordlord is so iconically Brevoy, and Brevoy is the instigator for the Kingmaker campaign, an Aldori Swordlord would be perfect, but to fill the position of Ruler you need to have a good Charisma.

I appreciate any advice or build templates you may have. Thank you for your time. :)

Baroncognito
2013-01-20, 06:09 AM
Go Rouge or Ninja.

You'll use your Cha for bluff or Intimidate rolls. With Dazzling Display required for Adouri Swordlord, you might as well take Shatter Defenses, which will allow you to get sneak attack dice against Shaken Foes (and you can use Dazzling Display to give them the Shaken condition).

Also, you'll have the option for a ki pool.

Need_A_Life
2013-01-20, 07:57 AM
Human Cavalier 2/Rogue 2/Fighter 1

Cavalier 2 (Cockatrice) will net you Dazzling Display for free at 2nd level.
Consider trading your mount for something else, as it will quickly become useless anyway.

Rogue 2 will get you a single Rogue Talent, evasion, SA +1d6. I like Ninja Trick (Pressure Points) for this one, letting you deal 1 Dex or Str damage with every sneak attack. From level 7, that can be every round.

Fighter 1 is needed to get Weapon Focus in time for entry in the PrC at level 6.

Traits: Blade of Mercy, +1
Feats
1; Racial: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Dueling sword)
LVL 1: Weapon Finesse
2; Bonus: Dazzling Display
LVL 3: Enforcer
5; Bonus: Weapon Focus (Dueling sword)
LVL 5: Imperious Command (3.5; DotU)
LVL 7: Shatter Defences

At level 1 you can call yourself a sword lord and no one will know the difference... apart from you having a horse. You'll probably use light armour to make use of your high Dex and use a dueling sword. Who'd know the difference?

When you hit level 2, you get to show off Dazzling Display with any weapon and get some bonuses to defend against Intimidation yourself.

At level 3 you take a hit on your BAB in order to get SA +1d6 and trapfinding, plus a bunch of skills to play around with. You also start dealing non-lethal damage towards enemies simply to get free a demoralize roll on them and effectively give your party +2 AC vs. your target. Remember, that since a trait lets you deal non-lethal damage without taking -4 to hit, you still get to deal SA with a non-lethal attack.
You can always coup de grace later.

At level 4, you'll get the ability to deal Dex and Str damage with your sneak attack, so remember to look for flanking opportunities even more than before.

At level 5, you jump up +2 in your attack bonus, between +1 BAB and Weapon Focus and, in addition, people you demoralize now end up cowering in addition to being shaken, allowing you to easily keep enemies from even acting during a fight.
[Note that while Imperious Command IS a big help for the build, it is not essential and can be exchanged for something else. In this case, I'd use my normal feat slot for Weapon Focus and take a level of Bard (Arcane Duelist) instead of Fighter]

At level 6, you enter the PrC. Big rejoicing.

At level 7, you get a feat. Take Shatter Defences. Now, your stun-lock via demoralization also triggers SA all on its own, freeing allies up to do other things.

EDIT: Half-elf is also an option, if you are set on it, if you take the alternate racial trait "Ancestral Arms." I would go high Dex and Cha, ~14 Con, and see little need for Int or Wis, though would favour Wis for its influence on Will saves.

Archpaladin Zousha
2013-01-20, 12:41 PM
Go Rouge or Ninja.

You'll use your Cha for bluff or Intimidate rolls. With Dazzling Display required for Adouri Swordlord, you might as well take Shatter Defenses, which will allow you to get sneak attack dice against Shaken Foes (and you can use Dazzling Display to give them the Shaken condition).

Also, you'll have the option for a ki pool.

Doesn't ninja kind of carry these expectations, though?

http://www.ninjastars.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Ninja1.jpg

Blisstake
2013-01-20, 01:44 PM
Creatively breaking expectations isn't really a problem. Ninja seems like a great fit if you want to have good charisma.

Archpaladin Zousha
2013-01-20, 03:02 PM
But I don't want the conversation in the recruitment thread or game table to look like this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html).

gorfnab
2013-01-20, 05:38 PM
But I don't want the conversation in the recruitment thread or game table to look like this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html).
A class does not equal a profession or concept. Say I wanted to build a "knight on horseback character (fluff)". I could build one with the obvious Fighter, Paladin, or Cavalier (crunch). However I could also go with Ranger or Druid (horse animal companion), Summoner (Eidolon), or Barbarian (Mounted Fury archetype). Classes are a mechanical meta-game "crunch" aspect. Ninja has some great abilities that would mesh with your character design (Cha synergy). Having levels in the Ninja "crunch" class does not mean you have to follow the ninja "fluff" stereotype (like the picture in your previous posting). Your concept "fluff" is what your character would call themselves, in this case an Aldori Swordlord (just like Miko calls herself a Samurai). Your class build "crunch" could be Aldori Swordlord Fighter archetype X/ Ninja X/ Cavalier X/ Aldori Swordlord prestige class X (as in Miko's case Monk X/ Paladin X).

Baroncognito
2013-01-20, 05:56 PM
Human Cavalier 2/Rogue 2/Fighter 1

That seems so complicated.

Half-elf: Ancestral Arms (Aldouri Dueling Sword)
Ninja 1: Weapon Finesse
Ninja 2: Weapon Training; Weapon Focus (Aldouri Dueling Sword)
Ninja 3: Dazzling Display
Ninja 4: Take a ninja talent, you've already met the prerequisite feats for Aldouri Sword Lord (aside from the skill ranks, but you're a fricken ninja. Skills are not a problem)
Ninja 5: Hey, you've got another feat here.
Aldouri Swordlord 1: You're there!

If you want to use performance combat, you should put some ranks in perform. You can go perform (comedy) for the wise-cracking rogue, but that would go better if you had gone Swashbuckler instead of Ninja. Perform (acting) would give everything you do a certain flourish and drama, but again, that seems more like a Swashbuckler. Perform (Dance) gives you deadly grace. That seems appropriate for Ninja.

Cieyrin
2013-01-20, 06:14 PM
While not entirely relevant, I have an Aldori Swordlord that isn't in that he's a Kensai Magus with a level of some archetyped Fighter(Lorewarden, I think) to pick up Aldori Dueling Mastery as early as possible. Working fairly well, though he doesn't have the Charisma focus you're looking for.

Archpaladin Zousha
2013-01-20, 11:58 PM
I'm thinking of using a Paladin 5/Fighter with Aldori Swordlord Features/Aldori Swordlord.

The idea would be to get the paladin goodies (Smite Evil, Divine Grace and Divine Bond) and then go all-out-Aldori.

drakemasters
2014-04-14, 09:23 AM
I know this is thread necro-ing, but I love Swordlords and want to give my 2 coppers. (also playing one in a kingmaker game)

I did go fighter, but also didn't do the sword-lord archetype. At best I felt it was mediocre, and I love armor training.

I built him to be incredibly high dex, and basically suffer through the first 5 or so levels (relying on feats and class abilities to shore up the damage.) However, while I didn't do a ton of damage, I never, NEVER missed. First level my bonus to hit was super high, here's how I did it.

20 Dex (+5) (with weapon finesse)
Weapon Focus (+1)
Masterwork Weapon (+1)
Kingmaker Campaign trait (+1)
Base Attack (+1)

That right there is a +9 at 1st level, which isn't bad I think.

So far (we're 11th level) I'm built as: Fighter 5/Swordlord 1/Duelist 5.

I'm building more on a damage path (right now sitting on a +26 to hit with a d8+20 damage with my +2 Aldori Dueling Sword)

Just wanted to share my build, know it's an old thread but I love the Swordlords :D