sneak attack against prone

[limejuicepowder]

I'd like to make a swashbuckler-type of build that fights defensively until he can maneuver his opponent in to falling, using some application of trip. Then he turns offensive and shreds his opponent while they are lying helpless. The only problem is the prone condition doesn't allow sneak attacks.

What's the best way to remedy this?

[Agincourt]

The only problem is the prone condition doesn't allow sneak attacks.

What's the best way to remedy this?

Sure it does. Being prone does not make you flat-footed or otherwise deny a person their dex, but if a rogue would otherwise get a sneak attack, being prone does not change that. If you have a way to get sneak attack, then you can sneak attack a prone person just as if they were standing up.

[Daftendirekt]

I'd like to make a swashbuckler-type of build that fights defensively until he can maneuver his opponent in to falling, using some application of trip. Then he turns offensive and shreds his opponent while they are lying helpless. The only problem is the prone condition doesn't allow sneak attacks.

What's the best way to remedy this?

Give me a page number so I can read exactly what it says about prone not allowing sneak attack. I suspect it means that if YOU are prone you cannot sneak attack others. I don't know why you wouldn't be able to sneak attack a prone target. That means you can't assassinate sleeping folk, and that is utterly ridiculous.

[Fouredged Sword]

There is a PRC for swashbuckling called scarlet corsair. It allows fainting as a free action every 1d4 rounds. This would let you move, faint, trip, and then attack all in a single round.

Flanking works as well. A single level dip in swordsage can grant the isles of blades stance, allowing flanking from any angle (it is a shadow hand stance so it also allows shadow blade for dex to damage). Mix this with anyone else anywhere around the target and you can sneak attack. Nothing says up the creek like being flanked and prone.

Any TOB class would grant access to diamond mind strikes (or a feat) for the strike that deals an extra 1d6 damage and renders your foe flat footed. It is very nice.

I would go rogue 4 / swordsage 3 / Scarlet Corsair 10 / swordsage 3

Or, if you like swashbuckler in your mix for int AND dex AND strength to damage rogue 2 / swashbuckler 3 / swordsage 2 / scarlet Corsair 10 / swordsage 3

Daring outlaw would get you to 6d6 sneak attack (8d6 with assassin's stance). Take Craven for +20.

[limejuicepowder]

Sorry I was unclear - I didn't mean that prone disallows sneak attack, I meant that a prone character still must be flanked or flat-footed in addition to being prone.

[Zaq]

I don't know of anything that just turns prone into a possible way to SA, so maybe just get them denied DEX on top of that? Not really the answer you wanted, but probably the most practical.

[Flickerdart]

There is a PRC for swashbuckling called scarlet corsair. It allows fainting as a free action every 1d4 rounds. This would let you move, faint, trip, and then attack all in a single round.
Feinting. Fainting as a free action would be utterly useless, to say the least.

[Psyren]

Invisible blade (WITHOUT the errata) will let you full-sneak-attack.

[Axier]

Even with errata, Invisible Blade + Suprising Riposte (Drow of The Underdark feat) will allow you to full attack SA. The first free feint does damage, suprising riposte kicks making them flat footed for a round.

[ericgrau]

Well low AC and low attack bonus are a couple of the rogue's biggest problems, so I wouldn't consider it all that bad that your tripping doesn't give you a sneak attack trigger too. Tripping seems like a good thing to tack on any rogue build. It does force you to be strength based rather than dex based which hurts your AC, but as long as you can trip consistently you should be fine. And dex can still be your 2nd or 3rd stat. TWF may be hard to get until higher level, but with further penalties to attack rolls, the cost of 2 weapons and the lack of full attacks in a rogue's often brief life it's overrated anyway.

As for the trigger you can use a special trigger or you can even flank. Unlike the standard flanking rogue you won't be in such extreme danger that melee rogues tend to face.

Since reliable trips are so important to your survival, you might consider an orc barbarian 1 / rogue X with potions of enlarge person, or other method of getting a nice modifier.

[Psyren]

Even with errata, Invisible Blade + Suprising Riposte (Drow of The Underdark feat) will allow you to full attack SA. The first free feint does damage, suprising riposte kicks making them flat footed for a round.

...I didn't know about that feat. Brilliant! That would go well in my Psychic Rogue guide - they can manifest Hustle to feint as a swift and then full sneak attack, all without any levels in Invisible Blade. Thanks for the heads up :smallsmile:

[Axier]

...I didn't know about that feat. Brilliant! That would go well in my Psychic Rogue guide - they can manifest Hustle to feint as a swift and then full sneak attack, all without any levels in Invisible Blade. Thanks for the heads up :smallsmile:

And I forgot about hustle feint!
Psionic Sneak Attack Superstar!
Time to make me that psionic ninja character concept.

[TuggyNE]

Feinting. Fainting as a free action would be utterly useless, to say the least.

Hey now. You could pretend to be out cold and then stab your enemy in the gut when they come to check on you/CdG. :smalltongue:

[limejuicepowder]

Hey now. You could pretend to be out cold and then stab your enemy in the gut when they come to check on you/CdG. :smalltongue:

This is actually possible with the combat panache feat

[The Viscount]

Or the Feign Death ACF.