Omega Red build, need pointers

[Mechanize]

I'm not fluent in the tons of books out for 3.5. What I want is a dual whip wielding fighter/caster that can channel magic through the whips.

So far I know to look for mighty whip daggers because plain whips suck.

I'm thinking starting with a fighter just to get the extra feats to pick up exotic prof and dual wielding, then move into duskblade.

More ideas please! Thanks

[Daftendirekt]

I'd suggest Duskblade from the PHB2 and then the Lasher prestige class from Sword and Fist pg. 26 (yes, it's a 3.0 class, but it was never updated, and thus is still valid). Duskblade lets you channel spells into your weapons (channeling Shocking Grasp or Vampiric Touch into your whip(s) sounds exactly like Omega Red). Lasher PrC makes you a total badass with whips.

Duskblade 13 is the usual breaking point for the class, as that's when you get the ability to channel a spell into every attack in your full attack, instead of just a single attack. However, 13 levels is a long time to wait to go into Lasher, which you then wouldn't be able to finish as it is a 10-level PrC. I'd say it's up to you how much of each class you want. Duskblade gives you more of the magic to channel into the whips, while Lasher makes you awesomer and awesomer with said whips.

EDIT: As for the whip proficiency, a single dip in Bard will get you that; they're the only class to get proficiency by default.

[Mechanize]

You think I would get more out of the bard over the fighter as far as everything I need? I thought of it, but I figured since the spells don't really add on to anything the duskblade could do as far as spell levels, I should just take a fighter for the feats.

[Daftendirekt]

Well, i think you'd only really need a 1 level dip in either one. Either take bard to get some extra cantrips, skill points, and the proficiency or take fighter, use its feat to get the proficiency, and get +1 BAB and a d10 HD.

[Invader]

You'd get better BaB and HPS from fighter and the bardic music stuff and skills from bard. The feat from fighter is negated from the weapon prof you get from bard.

IMO you'd be better off just taking fighter unless you think you're gonna try using your 1 use of bardic music.

Admittedly all the skills are nice.

[Mechanize]

Are there any races I should consider? What about feats? I was thinking about going human fighter and taking a flaw just to be able to get CE improved trip TWF and exotic weapons all at level 1. However, looking at the lasher, it seems it might be more efficient to just wait till level 6 because he gets a lot of those bonuses as part of the class.

[Mechanize]

You'd get better BaB and HPS from fighter and the bardic music stuff and skills from bard. The feat from fighter is negated from the weapon prof you get from bard.

IMO you'd be better off just taking fighter unless you think you're gonna try using your 1 use of bardic music.

Admittedly all the skills are nice.

The BAB will be important since Lasher requires +5, plus singing and dancing is not Omega Reds style... lol

[Larkas]

Another alternative is to use Dragon Magazine #310's Exoticist Fighter, take whip as one of your four proficiencies and select either Exotic Attack or Strange Strike in place of a feat, in case you like them, or take any other bonus feat you qualify for, since you won't need to take EWP.

EDIT: You want to trip? You'll probably want Exotic Attack.

[Invader]

Are there any races I should consider? What about feats? I was thinking about going human fighter and taking a flaw just to be able to get CE improved trip TWF and exotic weapons all at level 1. However, looking at the lasher, it seems it might be more efficient to just wait till level 6 because he gets a lot of those bonuses as part of the class.

You can always take them and then retrain so you're decent with a whip till you get lasher.

[Mechanize]

You can always take them and then retrain so you're decent with a whip till you get lasher.

Touche... I keep forgetting that you can retrain feats.

[Mechanize]

Another alternative is to use Dragon Magazine #310's Exoticist Fighter, take whip as one of your four proficiencies and select either Exotic Attack or Strange Strike in place of a feat, in case you like them, or take any other bonus feat you qualify for, since you won't need to take EWP.

EDIT: You want to trip? You'll probably want Exotic Attack.

That's perfect actually. It sucks to have to take a feat just to be proficient in a weapon for theme. I just hope the DM has no issues. All the class does is sacrifice simple/martial for exotic proficiency.

[Invader]

Another alternative is to use Dragon Magazine #310's Exoticist Fighter, take whip as one of your four proficiencies and select either Exotic Attack or Strange Strike in place of a feat, in case you like them, or take any other bonus feat you qualify for, since you won't need to take EWP.

EDIT: You want to trip? You'll probably want Exotic Attack.

Is there a trade off for getting the 4 weapon profs?

[Mechanize]

Is there a trade off for getting the 4 weapon profs?

Exoticist gets proficiency in only 4 different exotic weapons, rather than the whole family, and no proficiency in simple or martial weapons. If the DM plays realistically, its actually a pretty big hinderance.

[Invader]

Lasher gets proficiency in only 4 different exotic weapons, rather than the whole family, and no proficiency in simple or martial weapons. If the DM plays realistically, its actually a pretty big hinderance.

I meant from the Exoticist fighter variant that Larkas was talking about.

[Mechanize]

I meant from the Exoticist fighter variant that Larkas was talking about.

I messed that up... I meant exoticist, not lasher. lol. going to fix typo now.

[The Viscount]

Maiden of Pain's (PGF) fluff might not fit Omega Red excellently, but ask your DM if you can refluff it and ignore the female only requirement. It also allows touch spells delivered through whip, and the pain touch actually fits decently.

[Larkas]

Exoticist gets proficiency in only 4 different exotic weapons, rather than the whole family, and no proficiency in simple or martial weapons. If the DM plays realistically, its actually a pretty big hinderance.

Actually, you only lose martials. You are still proficient in all simple weapons, so it's not a big loss.

EDIT: Besides, 4 exotics is enough to cover all your bases. Say: whip, full blade, great bow, spiked chain.

[Mechanize]

Actually, you only lose martials. You are still proficient in all simple weapons, so it's not a big loss.

EDIT: Besides, 4 exotics is enough to cover all your bases. Say: whip, full blade, great bow, spiked chain.

Yeah I just noticed that today looking over the exoticist once again. Probably a good thing because I just told my DM that I like random drops, not drops geared toward exactly specific player needs. Don't know many DM's that drop mercurial longswords, whips, and repeating cross bows lol.

On another note, any suggested feats other than the obvious improved trip? Is disarm worth it? It seems like most baddies are without weapons and those with weapons usually tend to be trip worthy. Disarm seems to be over kill.

I had thought about going the cleave route for extra attacks since whips do not provoke AoO.

Honestly, I'd rather be a controller more than a damager but I am finding it hard to think of feats to take.

Oh and the omega red build is just for the whips and magic part. The character will be really happy go lucky, chaotic good, friendly etc. Are luck feats any good?

[The Viscount]

Luck feats can be good, but you have to put effort in to get a reward out. Disarm isn't used too often, from what I've seen. Whip does provoke AoO by itself, unless one of the classes you are taking negates that. If you can get a whip to threaten in its range, that increases your options, but by itself it doesn't.

[Mechanize]

Luck feats can be good, but you have to put effort in to get a reward out. Disarm isn't used too often, from what I've seen. Whip does provoke AoO by itself, unless one of the classes you are taking negates that. If you can get a whip to threaten in its range, that increases your options, but by itself it doesn't.

What do you mean by effort regarding the luck feats?

[Venger]

What do you mean by effort regarding the luck feats?

by "effort" what the viscount means is the following:

when you take luck feats, you will gain points for your "luck pool". most luck feats will give 1 point to your pool.

they'll usually be referred to as "rerolls" or "luck rerolls" but are sometimes called points.

the luck feats are all in complete scoundrel. there is a luck related class in races of the wild, luckstealer, which allows you to inflict penalties on opponents and give yourself more points for your pool.

in order to use your luck feats to reroll different things (such as skils, attacks, damage, or saves) you need to burn one or more luck points, so you want it to be as big as possible


the part where effort comes in is that you need to gain a pool of rerolls through taking luck feats, levels in certain luck-based prestige classes (fortune's friend, luckstealer) or else your pool will run out very quickly and the feats and stuff will not do anything

[Mechanize]

by "effort" what the viscount means is the following:

when you take luck feats, you will gain points for your "luck pool". most luck feats will give 1 point to your pool.

they'll usually be referred to as "rerolls" or "luck rerolls" but are sometimes called points.

the luck feats are all in complete scoundrel. there is a luck related class in races of the wild, luckstealer, which allows you to inflict penalties on opponents and give yourself more points for your pool.

in order to use your luck feats to reroll different things (such as skils, attacks, damage, or saves) you need to burn one or more luck points, so you want it to be as big as possible


the part where effort comes in is that you need to gain a pool of rerolls through taking luck feats, levels in certain luck-based prestige classes (fortune's friend, luckstealer) or else your pool will run out very quickly and the feats and stuff will not do anything

It still seems like having only 1-3 rerolls per day, and not going all out luck based with the prestige classes, could be pretty useful especially during a rough encounter. Or am I way wrong? lol

[Venger]

It still seems like having only 1-3 rerolls per day, and not going all out luck based with the prestige classes, could be pretty useful especially during a rough encounter. Or am I way wrong? lol

see, it could be somewhat useful during a hard encounter, but after that encounter, you are hard up for the rest of the adventuring day. having feats that only work one encounter a day is sort of bad.

the important thing is being able to refresh your luck pool somehow.

on p73 of complete scoundrel, there's the addendum about luckstealer. for every 3 points you gain in your luckstealer pool, you may use a luck reroll as if you were granted another point. this will let you essentially reroll all day as long as you're able to curse people every once in a while.

the bands of fortune are an item on complete scoundrel p114 (the housings for your carbonadium coils) that only work if you have some kind of luck rerolls, and will let you burn a reroll as a swift to give yourself a +2 luck bonus to atk, AC, or saves (only use it for saves) for 1 round. this is worth its weight in gold and only costs 2k and your arms slot (easily worth the extra 2k to make it slotless)

[Mechanize]

Ok, I'll keep it in mind. The DM was questioning whether doing the multiclassing penalties or not which would suck if I try to do anything too fancy.

[Venger]

Ok, I'll keep it in mind. The DM was questioning whether doing the multiclassing penalties or not which would suck if I try to do anything too fancy.

the multiclassing rules suck for everyone, which is why almost no one uses them, since they discourage variety and creativity. Remember though: you are allowed to have one non-favored class without a penalty, it only kicks in when you have two or more non-favored classes that have a difference of 2 or more levels between them and prestige classes do not count for multiclass xp penalties.

[Mechanize]

Ok, looking for some opinions here.

I really wanted to do the magic thing through the whips, but it seems like going lasher/duskblade will be pretty crappy in terms of spell progression.

A friend mentioned going exoticist rogue lasher and doing sleight of hand for whip sneak attacks and using the fighter side to tripping and what not. It sounds fun, but I want to get some more opinions.

Is there any other way to channel arcane magic? A better way to do the duskblade magic whips thing?

[Daftendirekt]

Nope. That's Duskblade's whole shtick, and it's unique.

[Mechanize]

Nope. That's Duskblade's whole shtick, and it's unique.

How effective would levels in duskblade be though if I am sharing them with another class? It seems like the extremely slow spell progression and limited spell selection is not even that good unless I stick with duskblade for the whole 20 levels.

[Averis Vol]

You could try going with smiting spell (PHBII 92) and just placing the touch spells in before walking into the encounter. Of course it takes two rounds of casting to get both and they are a +1 spell level (which can be mitigated with Meta magic reducers) but this could very well fit the fluff you're going for (no clue who omega red is unfortunately)

[herrhauptmann]

If you're going to do Combat expertise/trip or disarm, and all that.
Look at Jotunbrud in PGtF. It is not powerful build. It just gives you a +4 to your opposed rolls if that's advantageous to you.
Requires human, and being from Damara. But should be able to get the regional requirement waived easily. Getting the racial would be harder.

Steadfast boots boost your defensive trip/disarm/etc rolls. MiC
Drow of the Underdark has some weapon school feats, one is for a whip. I can't remember if it's any good, but I remember the spiked chain one being decent.