Warcraft RPG - Advancing the Dragon Aspects

[Dark_Ansem]

is someone familiar with the Warcraft RPG and sourcebook: Shadow and Light? I'd like to add a few more levels to the Dragon Aspects :)

[Grinner]

That's a D&D 3.5 sourcebook, right?

You might have better luck in the D&D 3.5 subforum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=59).

[Dark_Ansem]

well, yes... and no. it's a different setting.

[Nadevoc]

If it's still using the system with no tweaks, it's D&D; D&D is a system, independent of setting. If I remember right, the Warcraft RPG presents a bunch of alternative classes and rules tweaks so it's not quite D&D any more, but it's a d20 game - that is, one that runs off the same engine using the Open Gaming License. The above linked subforum covers all d20 games so you'd probably have the best luck there. Even if you can't find anyone familiar with that specific material, you can probably get some good general tips for beefing up/upleveling beasties there; a lot of really knowledgeable 3.5 folks hang out there. I'm not sure how many of them frequent Gaming (Other), so hopefully you'll get an answer either way.

[Dark_Ansem]

can I still post something here?

[Dark_Ansem]

Neltharion the Earth-Warder
(Deathwing)
Colossal Outsider (Earth, Eternal)
Hit Dice: 55d12+1,100 (1,760 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 70 ft. (14 squares), fly 220 ft. (clumsy),
burrow 40 ft.
Armor Class: 84 (–8 size, +2 Dex, +62 natural, +13
deflection, +5 divine), touch 22, flatfooted
82
Base Atk/Grapple: +55/+96
Attack: Bite +73 melee (5d8+25/19–20/+1d6)
Full Attack: Bite +73 melee (5d8+25/19–20/+1d6)
and 2 claws +71 melee (3d8+12/19-
20) and 2 wings +70 melee (3d8+12)
and tail slap +70 melee (3d8+37)
Space/Reach: 40 ft./20 ft. (bite 30 ft.)
Special Attacks: Breath weapon, crush, frightful presence,
tail sweep, epic weapons (chaotic
and evil), spells, spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Darkvision 120 ft., low-light vision,
blindsense 60 ft., continuous true seeing,
booming voice, damage reduction
20/epic, Eternal immunities, Eternal
presence (5,500 feet, DC 50), fast
healing 27, flaming body, immortality,
immunity to fire, mighty rage, raise
volcano, shapechange, resistance to
acid, cold, electricity and sonic 10, uncanny
dodge, spell resistance 38, earth
subtype, dragon traits (black wyrm),
Eternal traits
Saves: Fort +51, Ref +37, Will +47
Abilities: Str 60, Dex 14, Con 50, Int 32, Wis 35,
Cha 36
Skills: Appraise +69, Bluff +71, Decipher
Script +69, Hide +60, Intimidate +71,
Knowledge (arcana) +69, Knowledge
(nature) +69, Listen +72, Move Silently
+60, Search +69, Spellcraft +69
(+71 to decipher scrolls), Spot +72,
Swim +83
Feats: Alertness, Awesome Blow, Cleave,
Devour, Endurance, Flyby Attack,
Great Cleave, Hover, Improved Bull
Rush, Improved Critical (bite), Improved
Critical (claw), Improved
Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes,
Multiattack, Power Attack, Weapon
Focus (bite), Weapon Focus (claw),
Wingover
Epic Feats: Overwhelming Critical (bite)
Environment: Mountains, hot plains and deserts (any
volcanic or magma-filled area)
Organization: Usually with 1 favored ally (a wyrm of
45 HD or more) and 2–5 other attendants
(mature or larger black dragons
of 25 HD or more)
Challenge Rating: 34
Treasure: Quadruple normal
Alignment: Chaotic evil
ETERNALS
93
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +16
The massive monstrosity before you rises up like a
black, crag-covered mountain of scales and hide. The
head is a spade-like terror spiked with cruel red eyes that
shine with a frightening malevolence. Rivulets of lava
and magma are visible beneath the great wyrm’s scorched
scales.
Background
Deathwing was once known as Neltharion the
Earth-Warder, a great protector of the land, but
some unknown crisis in the distant past changed
him and his kind forever. His side split open,
revealing his molten heart, and fire and magma
poured out his body. To keep his body together,
Deathwing was forced to bind adamantium to his
spine, making his body nearly impenetrable.
Upon his irrevocable shift to evil, he turned
against his destiny and began to delight in causing
suffering wherever he could. He fought wars against
other dragons, slaying several and driving many of
them into hiding. His changes to the land forced
the mortal races to battle for resources, and many
claim Deathwing is the true cause behind the wars
that have for so long scoured the face of Azeroth.
Deathwing has been absent from his lair for
several years. No one is certain where he has gone
or if he has in fact been slain. The remaining black
dragons of his flight are now engaged in a battle for
dominance over one another.
Combat
Deathwing is a terrifying opponent who is as
cruel as he is vicious. He cares nothing for honor or
nobility, striking with whatever weapons and cunning
he has at his disposal, reveling in causing
earthquakes and ripping open volcanic fissures. He
often sends his minions into combat while he
surveys the battlefield, striking at whatever weaknesses
he discovers.
Breath Weapon (Su): 140-foot line/70-foot cone,
damage 32d10 fire, Reflex DC 57 half. Deathwing’s
breath weapon is a series of flaming balls of magma,
appearing much like that of a typical black dragon —
only much more powerful. Deathwing can breathe
every round if he so desires. In addition to his breath
weapon’s use as a line or a cone, he can also spew
forth a single large ball of magma that explodes in a
manner similar to a fireball, targeted on any location
within 200 feet of his position with a blast radius of
40 feet. The area effect is otherwise treated like a
standard breath weapon in terms of damage, save
DC, and so on. He may employ this version of his
breath weapon only once every 3 rounds.
Crush (Ex): Area 30 feet by 20 feet; Large or
smaller opponents take 4d8+37 points of bludgeoning
damage, and must succeed at a DC 57
Reflex save or be pinned.
Frightful Presence (Ex): 550-foot radius, HD 54
or less, Will DC 50 negates.
Tail Sweep (Ex): Half-circle 40 feet in diameter,
Medium or smaller opponents take 2d8+37 points
of bludgeoning damage, Reflex DC 57 half.
Spells: As a 36th-level sorcerer.
Sorcerer Spells Known (cast per day: 6/10/9/9/9/9/
8/8/8/8; save DC 23 + spell level): 0—arcane mark,
dancing lights, detect magic, mage hand, open/close,
prestidigitation, read magic, resistance, touch of fatigue;
1st—burning hands, magic missile, mysterious purple
blast††, ray of enfeeblement, shield; 2nd—forked lightning††,
hypnotic pattern, invisibility, orb of
annihilation††, scorching ray; 3rd—dispel magic, fireball,
protection from energy, shockwave*; 4th—blazing
column††, dimension door, immolation*, rain of fire*;
5th—phase shift††, teleport, wall of force, waves of
fatigue; 6th—black arrow††, chain lightning, mass
cripple††; 7th—finger of death, greater teleport, mass
berserker strength††; 8th—greater shadow strike††,
prismatic wall, sunburst; 9th—dominate monster, imprisonment,
vengeance††.
94
CHAPTER THREE
Dragon Spell-Like Abilities: 3/day—suggestion;
2/day—incendiary cloud, produce flame, wall of fire; 1/
day—detect thoughts. Caster level 36th; save DC 23
+ spell level.
Eternal Spell-Like Abilities: At will—delayed
blast fireball, earthquake, horrid wilting, move earth,
waves of exhaustion; 1/day—endure elements, meteor
swarm. Caster level 20th; save DC 33 + spell level.
Flaming Body (Su): At will, Deathwing can
cause his body to burst into flame and emanate heat
similar to that produced by molten lava. Any creature
approaching within his reach (20 feet) suffers
4d6 points of fire damage per round. Any creature
striking Deathwing’s flaming body suffers damage
as if the great dragon were protected by a doublestrength
fire shield spell (i.e., 2d6+30 damage), but
this effect applies to both non-reach weapons and
weapons with a reach as long as 20 feet.
Mighty Rage (Ex): Five times per day, Deathwing
can enter a rage state similar to that used by a
barbarian. While raging, he earns a +10 bonus to
Strength and Constitution, a +5 bonus on Will
saves, and suffers a –2 penalty to Armor Class.
Deathwing’s mighty rages last up to 20 rounds and
are tireless. While raging, he is under all restrictions
of a typical barbarian rage (e.g., he cannot cast
spells or use spell-like abilities) and may use his
breath weapon only once every other round.
Raise Volcano (Sp): Deathwing can employ his
great powers to raise magma from the world’s core
to the surface, creating volcanoes even in places
where none stood before. To do this, he must land
upon the ground and invoke this ability over the
course of 2d4 hours (2d4 minutes if located in
volcanic mountains, or instantaneous if standing
on a dormant or quiescent volcano). He may fight
to defend himself during this period, but if he is
driven to flight or forced out of the area, the ability
fails. Otherwise, the ground slowly rises, cracking
and churning as a mountain tip rises steadily out of
the surface of the earth, until finally the top explodes
and molten lava gushes forth. Deathwing
can perform this ability once per month.
Shapechange (Ex): Deathwing can take any
form he desires, as though constantly under the
effects of a shapechange spell. He has been known to
take human form in order to spread chaos and evil,
such as during the Second War when he pretended
to be a heroic noble named Lord Prestor in order to
be declared king of Alterac. Only the wizards of
Dalaran, with the help of the red dragon Korialstrasz,
saw through this deception.

this one I'd like to advance.

[The Glyphstone]

The rules for advancing monsters are found here:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#increasingHitDice

Adding additional Outsider Hit Dice would improve hit points, saves, skills, and possibly feats according to the chart.

This chart will explain how extra Hit Dice convert to extra Challenge Rating.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#advancedMonsterChallengeRati ng

[Dark_Ansem]

this is a dragon. the rules of "dragon, advanced" should be used, via adaptation of very high scale I guess.

[The Glyphstone]

It is called a Dragon. Its type is Outsider. Thus, if you advance it, you add extra hit dice of the type it already has, Outsider.

Creatures do not have hit dice of multiple types. Even in Lore, the Aspects aren't really dragons anymore, closer to demi-gods...which are outsiders.


Oh, and in addition to the other stuff I listed, any abilities it has with a Save DC based on Hit Dice will increase commensurately.

[Dark_Ansem]

you're right, sorry :)
so what do you recommend for advancing it so that its CR becomes 50?

[The Glyphstone]

Class levels? Pick whatever levels would make sense for him depending on what you want fighting him to be like, and your vision of how Deathwing would fight.

Or just 32 more Outsider Hit Dice.

[Dark_Ansem]

I wanted to go for HD of outsider but I don't know how to advance the damn various qualities, like breath/size/unarmed damage

[The Glyphstone]

None of those will be affected by extra HD, by the book. Adding extra HD will let you increase his Strength at a 1/4 ratio, which could boost melee damage, but otherwise you'll just raise his HP, BAB/attacks, saves, skill points, feats, and save DCs.

[Dark_Ansem]

that would be amazingly boring.... better results by using the template and advancing a dragon accordingly to the draconomicon rules!

[Norin]

You seem to (want to) use some seriously crazy powerful monsters/npc's in your games.

Just out of curiousity, what kind of player characters are involved in your game? Something epic?

Or are these powerful creatures just statted up for "fun" and used as background characters?

[Dark_Ansem]

well, both. I have a player base of 4-5, veterans who have a very old epic character each AND they are a good team so I don't have to worry about any of them dying.

but yeah, this is kinda the very first period I have to deal with epic threats on a constant basis, so I have to kinda experiment :)

[The Glyphstone]

that would be amazingly boring.... better results by using the template and advancing a dragon accordingly to the draconomicon rules!

If you just want to homebrew, you can just glue whatever numbers you want onto the monster and use that.

I guess you could also reverse-engineer the Eternal Template, remove it from him, then use the Advanced Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/dragonAdvanced.htm) rules, then go back and re-apply the Eternal template.

[Dark_Ansem]

aw, no need for that, it's full of awesome dragons :)

[Dark_Ansem]

so I was thinking...

Using this template for a CR 50 enemy:

Eternal Template: +7 CR
Shadow Creature Template: + 1
Advanced Red Dragon up to CR +16 from Great Wyrm Stage (+ 8 age categories unless I am mistaken)

anything wrong here?

[Dark_Ansem]

Eternal Red Shadow Dragon:

HD64d12 (40+24) +
Size: Colossal+
AC: +24
Breath Weapon: 24d10 (40) -> +16d = 40d10 (?)
Ability Scores: GW 45 10 31 26 27 26
ADV +16 +0 +16 +8 +8 +8
ETT +6 +4 +8 +6 +8 +10
67(+28) 14(+2) 55(+22) 42(+16) 43(+16) 44(+17)
Spell Resistance: +16 +32GW= +48
CR: 50 (24+7+1+16)

Eternal Template

“Eternal” is an acquired template that may be
added to any dragon, elemental, fey, humanoid,
monstrous humanoid, outsider or undead (referred
to hereafter as the “base creature”). The Eternal
uses all of the base creature’s statistics and special
abilities except as noted here.
Size and Type: The base creature’s size usually
increases by at least one step (determined by the GM).
The majority of Eternals are Huge or larger, though
Medium and smaller Eternals are possible. If the creature’s
size changes, use Table 4–2: Changes to Statistics by
Size in the MM to calculate changes to natural armor,
Armor Class, attack rolls and grapple bonus.
The base creature’s type becomes outsider (except
for an elemental), though its Hit Dice, base
attack bonus, skill points and other such features of
its original type are retained. The base creature also
gains the Eternal subtype.
Hit Dice and Hit Points: An Eternal must have
20 or more Hit Dice. An Eternal receives maximum
hit points for each Hit Die.
Speed: An Eternal’s base land speed improves by
one-third (rounded down to a multiple of 5). Overall
speed increases by another 20 feet as a
supernatural effect (this extra movement is negated
by antimagic field and similar effects). For
example, if the base creature’s speed is 30 feet, its
new speed is 60 feet.
Armor Class: Natural armor improves by +5.
The Eternal gains a deflection bonus to AC equal
to its Charisma bonus (if any), and a divine bonus
to AC of +1 for every 10 Hit Dice. For example, an
Eternal with 35 HD has a +3 divine bonus to AC.
If the creature’s size changed, see Table 4–2:
Changes to Statistics by Size in the MM to determine
its new Armor Class and to see whether its
natural armor changes further.
Base Attack/Grapple: If the base creature’s size
increased, it gains additional Strength and an improved
size bonus to grapple checks.
Attack and Full Attack: An Eternal’s attacks do
not automatically fail on a natural roll of 1.
If Strength or Dexterity change, use the new
modifier to determine attack bonuses. A change in
a monster’s size also changes its attack bonus; see
Table 4–2: Changes to Statistics by Size in the MM.
Damage: If the base creature’s size increased, its
weapons (both natural and manufactured) increase
in size as well.
Space/Reach: If the Eternal’s size increased, the
base creature’s Space and Reach should be adjusted
as appropriate.
Special Attacks: An Eternal retains all the special
attacks of the base creature and also gains the
following attacks.
Epic Weapons (Ex): An Eternal’s natural weapons
are treated as epic weapons aligned as the
Eternal’s alignment for the purpose of overcoming
damage reduction. For example, the natural weapons
of a chaotic evil creature are treated as chaoticand
evil-aligned weapons.
Spell-Like Abilities: Choose up to one spell of 8th
level or lower per 10 Hit Dice. The Eternal may cast
these spells at will as a 20th-level caster.
Choose up to one spell of 9th level or lower per
20 Hit Dice. The Eternal may cast these spells once
per day as a 20th-level caster.
The save DC for all spell-like abilities is 20 + the
spell’s level + the Eternal’s Charisma bonus (if any).
Special Qualities: An Eternal retains all the
special qualities of the base creature and also gains
the following qualities. If the base creature already
has one or more of these special qualities, use the
better value.
Booming Voice (Ex): When an Eternal speaks or
makes a sound, as a free action he can make his voice
be heard by all creatures within a 5-mile radius.
Damage Reduction (Ex): An Eternal has damage
reduction 20/epic. This overlaps but does not stack
with any existing damage reduction.
Eternal Immunities (Ex): The Eternal is immune
to banishment and imprisoning effects, death effects,
disease, disintegration, all mind-affecting
effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns
and morale effects), paralysis, poison, petrification,
polymorphing attacks, sleep effects and stunning.
The Eternal is not subject to ability damage, ability
drain, critical hits, energy drain, exhaustion, fatigue
or nonlethal damage.
Eternal Presence (Ex): The Eternal’s mere presence
is awe-inspiring. This mind-affecting ability
takes effect automatically whenever the Eternal’s
presence is felt through sight, speech, an attack or
any other means. Creatures within 100 feet per Hit
Die are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD
than the Eternal.
Allies of the Eternal receive a +2 morale bonus
on attacks, damage rolls, saving throws, ability
checks and skill checks for 4d6 rounds.
Neutral creatures must succeed on a Will save
(DC 10 + half the Eternal’s HD + the Eternal’s
Charisma modifier) or stare at the Eternal in fascination
for 4d6 rounds. They can defend themselves
normally, but take no other actions.
Enemies of the Eternal must succeed on a Will
save (DC 10 + half the Eternal’s HD + the Eternal’s
Charisma modifier) or be shaken for 4d6 rounds. A
shaken creature becomes frightened if the Eternal
threatens the victim in any way, such as by attacking,
casting a spell, approaching the victim, or even
looking the victim in the eye menacingly. Enemies
immune to fear are treated as neutral creatures for
this effect.
A potentially affected creature that succeeds at
its Will saving throw remains immune to that
Eternal’s divine presence for one day.
Fast Healing (Ex): An Eternal has fast healing
equal to half its Hit Dice.
Immortality (Ex): Eternals do not age, eat, sleep
or breathe. An Eternal cannot die from natural
causes or from taking massive damage.
Keen Senses (Ex): An Eternal has darkvision 120
ft., low-light vision, and is continuously affected as
though by the true seeing spell.
Resistances (Ex): An Eternal has resistance to
acid, cold, electricity, fire and sonic 10.
Spell Resistance (Ex): An Eternal has spell resistance
35 if the base creature’s spell resistance is not
already better.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): An Eternal can react to
danger before its senses would normally allow it to
do so. It retains its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any)
even if it is caught flat-footed or struck by an
invisible attacker. However, it still loses its Dexterity
bonus to AC if immobilized.
Base Save Bonuses: An Eternal gains a resistance
bonus on saving throws equal to its Charisma
bonus (if any) and a divine bonus to saving throws
of +1 per 10 Hit Dice.
An Eternal’s saving throws do not automatically
fail on a natural roll of 1.
Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows:
Str +6, Dex +4, Con +8, Int +6, Wis +8, Cha +10.
If the creature’s size changed, see Table 4–2: Changes
to Statistics by Size of the MM for additional changes
to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution.
Skills: An Eternal gains a +1 divine bonus per 10
Hit Dice on all skill checks.
Feats: An Eternal gains the Improved Initiative
feat for free if it does not already have it.
Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature +7.
Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +13.

Shadow Creature Template

CREATING A SHADOW CREATURE
“Shadow” is a template that can be added to any corporeal
aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast,
monstrous humanoid, plant, undead, or vermin (referred to
hereafter as the base creature).
A shadow creature uses all the base creature’s statistics and
abilities except as noted here. Do not recalculate the creature’s
Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saves, or skill points if its type
changes.
Size and Type: Animals or vermin with this template
become magical beasts, but otherwise the creature type is
unchanged. Shadow creatures encountered on the Material
Plane have the extraplanar subtype and are native to the Plane
of Shadow.
Speed: As base creature × 1-1/2.
Special Qualities: A shadow creature retains all the special
qualities of the base creature, and also gains the following:
— Resistance to cold equal to 5 + 1 per Hit Die, to a maximum
of 15.
— Darkvision out to 60 feet.
— Low-light vision.
— Shadow Blend (Su): In any conditions other than full
daylight, a shadow creature can disappear into the shadows,
giving it total concealment. Artifi cial illumination, even a
light or continual fl ame spell, does not negate this ability, but a
daylight spell will.
Shadow creatures also have one additional special ability
for every 4 Hit Dice they possess (minimum of one additional
ability) chosen from the following list:
— +2 luck bonus on all saving throws.
—Cause Fear (Sp): 1/day. Caster level 5th. The save DC is
Charisma-based.
—Damage reduction 5/magic.
—Evasion, as the rogue class feature.
—Fast healing 2.
—Mirror Image (Sp): 1/day. Caster level 5th.
—Plane Shift (Sp): 1/day, to or from the Plane of Shadow only.
Caster level 15th.
If the base creature already has one or more of these special
qualities, use the better value.
Skills: Same as base creature. Shadow creatures gain a +6
racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
Feats: Same as the base creature.
Environment: Plane of Shadow.
Organization: Same as the base creature.
Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature +1.
Treasure: Same as the base creature.
Alignment: Usually neutral evil.
Advancement: Same as the base creature.
Level Adjustment: Same as base creature +2.

[ShadowFireLance]

If you just want to homebrew, you can just glue whatever numbers you want onto the monster and use that.


So, I should go grab my epileptic monkey, and my Boxing gloves, And go out and get some more ink for my Typewriter? :smalltongue::smallwink:

[Dark_Ansem]

any comment on the dragon so far?

[The Glyphstone]

So, I should go grab my epileptic monkey, and my Boxing gloves, And go out and get some more ink for my Typewriter? :smalltongue::smallwink:

I will never escape that quote, will I?:smallbiggrin:

@DA: There's nothing for anyone to comment on. It's an epic dragon, that's pretty much it.

[Dark_Ansem]

you should comment if I'm doing it correctly, without any major mistakes.

plus I need some help in calculating the hp, the bonuses to damage for melee attacks and the various save dcs :P