[D&D 3.5 Class] Mage Blade [PEACH, WIP]

[Holocron Coder]

I'll end up formatting this later for the forum, specifically, but currently have the class as a Google doc.

Mage Blade (https://docs.google.com/document/d/133O8QwVuP4Ew1yf-lnow-4cVPSAMJrvdlZzn9Hl8Q6o/edit)

I want to keep the core concept of the class, which is using maneuvers, single weapons, light or less armor, and casting a restricted set of spells in the same manner as maneuvers (a la Force Powers from Star Wars: SAGA)

That said, I've had some people say it's good on power (Tier 2 ish) while others say it's a broken god-class of doom.

So, any advice on cleaning up the class and balancing it a bit better? I've thought of restricting the spell list rather than the current "any arcane spell".

[chrisrawr]

It gets a lot of Skillpoints for full BAB and casting, and martial progression. It gets a lot of class skills, too. This is more of a roleplaying issue; "How is he finding time to study magic, practice swordsmanship, and learn new maneuvers, while still doing all of this stuff?"


Other than that, I like it; solid T3 that lets you do a lot of things without doing any of them too well. It's like a more combat-focused factotum with some nice features, and can flow well into a variety of PrC's.

It's not T2. T2 requires access to 9th level spells at the least. This is solid-high T3. It's not going to be able to beat a dedicated Martial warrior in a surprise direct combat because it doesn't gain class abilities toward that edge. It's not going to be able to defeat a low-op caster from afar because it doesn't have the spell levels or spells per day necessary. But it can pull of a bunch of neat combinations, and build into some of the more powerful gish builds, meaning that it makes a great 'assassination' or 'tank' character, with a great amount of support abilities and a reasonable amount of resources and flexibility at its disposal.

From a DM perspective, I can definitely see higher-end bandits and mercenaries having levels in this class -- it only makes sense that in worlds where magic and maneuvers are common, people will pick some skills in those directions up when trying to survive.

[Holocron Coder]

It gets a lot of Skillpoints for full BAB and casting, and martial progression. It gets a lot of class skills, too. This is more of a roleplaying issue; "How is he finding time to study magic, practice swordsmanship, and learn new maneuvers, while still doing all of this stuff?"
That's true. The skill points is more how I personally dislike getting 2+Int or something skills per level, which I don't feel is enough for any character. What do you think it should be at, though? Given maneuvers being a piece.



Other than that, I like it; solid T3 that lets you do a lot of things without doing any of them too well. It's like a more combat-focused factotum with some nice features, and can flow well into a variety of PrC's. It's not T2. T2 requires access to 9th level spells at the least. This is solid-high T3. It's not going to be able to beat a dedicated Martial warrior in a surprise direct combat because it doesn't gain class abilities toward that edge. It's not going to be able to defeat a low-op caster from afar because it doesn't have the spell levels or spells per day necessary. But it can pull of a bunch of neat combinations, and build into some of the more powerful gish builds, meaning that it makes a great 'assassination' or 'tank' character, with a great amount of support abilities and a reasonable amount of resources and flexibility at its disposal.
Yeah, I was basically trying to create a maneuver gish that didn't feel too gimped because of having to depend on preparing spells or being limited in what's cast... I wanted its spells to feel just like maneuvers.


From a DM perspective, I can definitely see higher-end bandits and mercenaries having levels in this class -- it only makes sense that in worlds where magic and maneuvers are common, people will pick some skills in those directions up when trying to survive.
Ha, that'd definitely be neat.

So, we have one vote for "same, but slight mods to skills"? What else we got?

[chrisrawr]

4 per level (in line with warblade) is usually what I stick fairly martial characters at. With Int being necessary for some of the nice feat options, and humans being base, this usually ends up at 5-6 skillpoints anyways. Which is enough for a knowledge, some ranks in tumble and balance, and whatever else might fit a backstory.

In some cases, 2 is acceptable in my opinion: Necessarily High-Int characters (especially wizards). Their spellbook is their skills list!

[PEACH]

I think the problem with this is essentially that it's on the "high powered T3" end of things. It's always going to have pretty good casting and pretty good maneuvering and pretty good skillpoints, so it's great for a T3 class, but without full casting it isn't T2. Just to compare, a Warblade really has very few advantages compared to this class, and is also in T3, which could be problematic. It doesn't really crack into the myriad options T2 classes have, but it still beats out most (non caster) T3s handily.

[Holocron Coder]

I think the problem with this is essentially that it's on the "high powered T3" end of things. It's always going to have pretty good casting and pretty good maneuvering and pretty good skillpoints, so it's great for a T3 class, but without full casting it isn't T2. Just to compare, a Warblade really has very few advantages compared to this class, and is also in T3, which could be problematic. It doesn't really crack into the myriad options T2 classes have, but it still beats out most (non caster) T3s handily.

Mmm, okay, that makes sense. It's partially what I was worried about. If I scaled back maneuver progression, do you think it would save the class some?

[Xaotiq1]

Interesting. I've got a class not unlike this one currently rattling around the old brain pan. Here are a few things that might rope things in:
Make a spell list for this class.
A Mage Blade's IL is equal to 1/2 thier Mage Blade Level.
Reduce the number of disciplines they gain access to. Three is enough for the Crusader, and they don't get spells!
For spells, honestly, Bard casting is pretty gosh darn groovy; and its got a nice already done pair of tables!. You could add that they can cast spells with casting times less than 1 round as a swift action to make them more maneuver-esque.
To that end, I would go with spontaneous casting rather than prepared. I know you're going for the "treats spells as maneuvers" thing, but it's kind of a pain in the butt book-keeping wise.
If you don't go with a custom list, the class should have access to maybe four schools of magic.
WAY too many skills. I'd cut Escape Artist, Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Use Magic Device (Cha). You can take the Skill points to 4+Int then.
As written, your class suffers ASF for wearing Armor. Again, the bard is your friend. I'd suggest swiping their armor & shield proficiencies.


You've got a great start here, Holocron Coder! Hope this helps!