Building high level worlds

[Kaeso]

We all know the very basic DnD worlds: kings, dukes, chancellors or even inn maids give a ragtag group of adventurers some quests, which might lead to a bigger, overarching story. This works decently in E6 games, but in normal DnD games there will come a point where you go beyond what is "normal" for a human.

At around level 10, or perhaps even earlier, the PC's are obscenely powerful. They're strong, fast, enduring and some can even alter reality itself. Challenging players at this point involves using enemies like otherworldly demons, powerful wizards and the most grotesque of monsters.

My question is how you can keep a world running and logical when such powerful beings run around. There are a lot of problems with the "standard" DnD world at high levels, but I'll name two:
1. The innkeeper the PC's have befriended? He can't give them quests anymore without it turning really silly. What kind of "simple" innkeeper would know anything about hellgates and demonic blades?
2. The entire structure of power goes haywire. Why would wizards listen to kings when they could fry him and his entire army at the same time? Speakin of armies, why would those even exist when a single high-level cleric could decimate them?

What are your ideas on this? Have you ever played in/DM'd a high level game? How did you/your DM solve this conundrum?

[Kuulvheysoon]

The few times that my PCs have reached levels 13+ (as a DM), I've always sent them plane-hopping at the behest of some greater power (ascended archmage, balors, solars, etc...)

[Metahuman1]

The king is a cleric, so are most of his troops, particularly his none-canon fodder one's. The chancellor is a Wizard. The inn keeper is a sorcerer or a druid who provides space for people so that they can hopefully learn a little of nature during there stay and if not are at least not gonna go out and make a mess of his lovely natural world. The Orc's now have levels in Incarnum and Tome of Battle Classes with a Shamen that's a favored soul or a Psion.


Do things like that. If they wanna know why there sending the PC's out, "Well, if you die I don't have to worry about it as much as if it was actually my own people."

[Seharvepernfan]

My world works like this:

PC-level capable characters are exceedingly rare. Only 5% of each race has the elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8), everybody else has the average array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8). Just about everybody uses the npc WBL, many have less, very few have more. Few people have PC classes, even fewer have prestige classes. I un-optimize most npcs to fit their lives. You might find someone with a PC class, the elite array, and PC level gear, but a group of them of varied classes? Once or twice a lifetime, assuming you don't spend your entire life within a couple miles from where you were born (as most do).

There, that lowers the amount of high level npcs. There are still a lot of them out there, and there are plenty of monsters and more powerful races out there, many of whom have levels themselves.

Okay, so say you are a 10th level wizard or whatever. Why don't you take over the kingdom? You could, I suppose. It's a huge bother, though, and exceedingly dangerous. What would you get out of it? Some experience, a lot of resources (probably less than you have imagined, though), and some people who do things for you? Now what?

Some npcs do this, but most just live in the castle and perform as a court mage, giving advice and magical expertise to the king in exchange for a free place to live, free food, free services, and so on, all while you continue studying and being a wizard.

Many other wizards prefer to just live in seclusion, or sell their services in a town or city. Most of them aren't too keen on being in battles or other dangerous situations. This goes to members of other classes as well.

Who says the king is trying to order around a high level wizard? A king probably knows better. He probably does his best to keep those wizards placated or away from his kingdom, so that he can continue ruling. He probably pulls every trick he knows to defend himself from them, in case one tries to usurp or otherwise kill him. Hell, the king might be a wizard (though he should probably have a few levels of aristocrat or expert or rogue or something to have the skillset).

Why do armies exist? A high level wizard has plenty of CR-equivalent threats to deal with, not including hordes of orcs and rival human nations. He can't deal with all of them, all the time, thus armies. Delta Force can't go and catch every burglar. It's not like the crooks/bandits/orcs go, "Well, Delta Force exists, I better not do anything bad!"

High level people are busy with high-level things, most of which is invisible to lower level people, just like high-level business/government stuff is invisible to us. It's like a different layer to the world, low level and high level.

At low levels, you can receive quests from just about anybody, but eventually, those quests need to come from kings/guildmasters/rich merchants/high-priests/dragons, etc. Eventually, even planar powers may hire the party. Who says that innkeeper is actually a commoner? Maybe he's a ghaele eladrin who is secretly looking for heroes to go on some quest? Maybe a ghaele (in disguise) hired the innkeeper to ask you?

Say that your high level pcs get the idea to take over a kingdom for themselves, thinking, "Hey, they're just a bunch of low-level mooks. How hard could it be?" Right up until they start getting attacked by high-level knights and clerics who support Law or Good, and assassins hired by merchants and anybody-the-hell else who would be upset by any upset of the status-quo, or maybe somebody high-level already secretly took over the kingdom and now you just stepped on their toes. Or maybe the elves or dwarves (or those dragons in the mountains) decide that they can't let a bunch of powerful disruptors rule the neighboring kingdom, and launch a personal attack against your pcs.

My point is that there aren't that many high-level people around, and even less who are uncomfortable enough with their lives to get motivated to go upset the boat, and that there are other high-level people already there who are willing/ready/capable enough to stop them. All the high-level stuff is already there in your "simple, normal" world, it's just not visible to all the low-level people.

I personally only have a minority of my world be civilized and populated, most of it is currently uninhabited by nations, and it has unnatural and extra-dimensional areas that house most of the more dangerous monsters (like dire animals, giants, and dragons). Most people don't know about these areas (or understand what they really are). Most high-level people are busy either maintaining the status quo, or off doing high-level stuff like finding the lost flying-city on the other side of world in their airship.