Dragon Fighting - Wizard

[Stront]

I'm playing a Abyssal Specialist Wizard 10 / Abjurant Champion 2 and have banned Evocation + Enchantment as my prohibited schools. Currently, we are dealing with a dragon insurgence and I foresee a lot of combat with them in the future.

I'm looking for some tactics and spells that will be helpful in fighting dragonkin and here are my current antidragon spells:

1st Level = Ray of Clumsiness (Lower their dexterity)
2nd Level = Resist Energy (Resist their breath weapon)
2nd Level = Mirror Image (Avoid melee attacks)
3rd Level = Antidragon Aura (Make it harder for them to hit me)
3rd Level = Dimension Step (Get out of a breath weapon)
3rd Level = Protection from Energy (See Resist Energy)
3rd Level = Shivering Touch (Lower their dexterity hardcore, have maximize)
6th Level = Aura of Evasion (Help group and myself avoid breath weapon)
6th Level = Mislead (Avoid getting hit)
6th Level = Antimagic Field (Remove breath weapon as an option)

Now what other spells or tactics could the Playground recommend? I have a feeling I will eventually tangle with a "insane" adult gold dragon (it is huge, I know that much).

I also have the Heart of Earth, Fire, Air and Earth buffed at all times. I'm looking for spells that might knock them to the ground for the rest of the party to hit (that don't rely on fortitude saves).

Thanks in advance.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I'm looking for some tactics and spells that will be helpful in fighting dragonkin and here are my current antidragon spells:

1st Level = Ray of Clumsiness (Lower their dexterity)
2nd Level = Resist Energy (Resist their breath weapon)
2nd Level = Mirror Image (Avoid melee attacks)
3rd Level = Antidragon Aura (Make it harder for them to hit me)
3rd Level = Dimension Step (Get out of a breath weapon)
3rd Level = Protection from Energy (See Resist Energy)
3rd Level = Shivering Touch (Lower their dexterity hardcore, have maximize)
6th Level = Aura of Evasion (Help group and myself avoid breath weapon)
6th Level = Mislead (Avoid getting hit)
6th Level = Antimagic Field (Remove breath weapon as an option)

You don't really need anything else, besides Spectral Hand (Necromancy 2, core).

[Keld Denar]

Depending on the maneuverability class of the dragon, Solid Fog is brutal. Most dragons can't hover, and thus need to maintain a certain amount of forward speed or risk a stall. Overlap the fog on the back of the dragon by 10'. It will double move forward 10' and emerge from the fog just in time to stall and fall at least 180 feet and take 18d6 damage. If it was higher, it would get a ref save to pull out or fall another 360 feet. Sadly, falling caps out at 20d6, but that's still a lot of damage. You can park your party at the point where the dragon would land so they can step forward and full attack it after it is grounded. If the dragon is grounded, Solid Fog can keep it from taking off, since it can't get forward momentum with a 5' move speed.

[Story]

You don't really need anything else, besides Spectral Hand (Necromancy 2, core).

Only if it hits. The Dragon might have that ability that adds natural armor to touch AC. Or they may just see the hand and kill it.

[docnessuno]

Only if it hits. The Dragon might have that ability that adds natural armor to touch AC. Or they may just see the hand and kill it.

Or, as any dragon able to cast 6th level spells would do against a caster, they might have antimagic field up.

[Arcanist]

Or, as any dragon able to cast 6th level spells would do against a caster, they might have antimagic field up.

I doubt they'll be fighting Old+ Dragons, but just in case...

[Invader]

Anti-magic field won't do anything to stop a breath weapon.

Nevermind :smallbiggrin:

[Keld Denar]

AMF suppresses all SU abilities. Breath Weapons are SU unless otherwise stated. Dragons don't state otherwise.

I think he was indicating that the DRAGON would be using the AMF though.

[Invader]

AMF suppresses all SU abilities. Breath Weapons are SU unless otherwise stated. Dragons don't state otherwise.

I think he was indicating that the DRAGON would be using the AMF though.

Huh, I stand corrected.

He has it in his spell list of anti dragon spells with the note "remove breath weapon as an option" so I'm assuming he's using it.

[Story]

Then you'll need some AMF proof spells so you don't go the way of V. Orb of Force is always popular. Hail of Stone might work in a pinch.

[Stront]

Huh, I stand corrected.

He has it in his spell list of anti dragon spells with the note "remove breath weapon as an option" so I'm assuming he's using it.

Yes, unfortunately I have mortals (other non-wizard PCs) I will be fighting with - so I might have to save their bacon.

[tyckspoon]

I also have the Heart of Earth, Fire, Air and Earth buffed at all times. I'm looking for spells that might knock them to the ground for the rest of the party to hit (that don't rely on fortitude saves).

Thanks in advance.

Well, there's Downdraft and Wingbind, which are both Reflex saves that Dragons tend to be fairly poor at (and Downdraft is partial effect on Reflex, so it works anyway.) Unfortunately, one is a Druid spell and the other is an Evocation. You could try it the other way around- Mass Fly is a 5th level spell that'll get your whole party in the air, although you might still want something to reduce the dragon's movement options so it doesn't just outrun you.

Pack Dispel Magic. Dragons are hugely more dangerous when they're buffed up.. but they also have really poor caster levels relative to their HD and CR, which makes them fairly easy targets for a good Dispel.

I think you might be devoting a few too many resources to anti-Breath Weapon measures- Resist Energy and Protection From Energy will defang the damage weapon, and they won't protect against a metallic dragon's alternate breath anyway. I'd skip Aura of Evasion; Antidragon Aura will give your party good saves against the breath weapons as is, and Aura of Evasion requires you to cluster up into a 10-foot grouping to get its effect... which is just begging for a good Breath Weaponing. You don't want your entire party hit with one breath even with defensive buffs. Antimagic Field just invites the dragon to come down and chew on you with his superior natural weapons and physical stats.

[Stront]

I think you might be devoting a few too many resources to anti-Breath Weapon measures- Resist Energy and Protection From Energy will defang the damage weapon, and they won't protect against a metallic dragon's alternate breath anyway. I'd skip Aura of Evasion; Antidragon Aura will give your party good saves against the breath weapons as is, and Aura of Evasion requires you to cluster up into a 10-foot grouping to get its effect... which is just begging for a good Breath Weaponing. You don't want your entire party hit with one breath even with defensive buffs. Antimagic Field just invites the dragon to come down and chew on you with his superior natural weapons and physical stats.

I think you're probably right about Aura of Evasion and Antimagic Field. The only reason I wanted Antimagic Field is if the breath weapon started chewing up the group. I have a few big dumb fighters that would like to go toe to toe with a dragon.

[Keld Denar]

If you can ground the dragon, a simple Solid Fog will pretty much prevent it from ever taking flight. It won't be able to get away, and if it is big enough, a part of it will always be projecting from the fog. More, if you Sculpt it.

[Stront]

If you can ground the dragon, a simple Solid Fog will pretty much prevent it from ever taking flight. It won't be able to get away, and if it is big enough, a part of it will always be projecting from the fog. More, if you Sculpt it.

I plan on using one Solid Fog to drop the dragon from the air and a second to keep it grounded. From there I plan on using spectral hands and hitting it with a Shivering Touch; perhaps after a targeted Greater Dispel Magic.

I honestly don't want to kill the dragon in this scenario as it is a Mature Adult Gold (I believe) and it is under the effect of a magical item. This item is causing it to act as if in a permanent rage and has altered it's alignment.

[Vaz]

AMF suppresses all SU abilities. Breath Weapons are SU unless otherwise stated. Dragons don't state otherwise.

I think he was indicating that the DRAGON would be using the AMF though.

Depends if the Breath attack originates from outside the AMF :); dragons have long necks.

Seriously though, would that work

[Keld Denar]

Speaking of dragons and long necks, anyone ever notice that a dragoon has a longer reach with its bite than the rest of its natural attacks? This has a rather hilarious side effect that means that a dragon can never pounce. Dire Charge seems like it was printed exactly with dragons in mind, but doesn't actually work for them by RAW. By the rules, when you charge someone, you have to stop in the first square in which you can attack your foe. That first square is where the bite can hit, which is still just out of reach of the rest if its natural attacks. More rules thwarted by the writers not fully understanding the system they are writing for!

[Stront]

Well tonight I will probably get to try out the tactics mentioned here. I will let you know if I survive; however, I will probably let you know if I die too. :smallwink:

[Stront]

Well my Wizard and a Goliath Barbarian located a pair of young adult blue dragons. We prepped spells and invaded their lair. When we arrived, we found an empty cave and nothing to be found.

As we started looking around and my buffs were fading, we noticed something moving under the ground. The pair of blues were burrowing around so I cast spectral hands (just to prep) then disintegrated the ground to see if I could get a view of one.

I glimpsed a tail and we both prepared for an attack. The Goliath delayed to play whack a mole and I just floated in the air as a Sword Archon (Draconic Polymorph).

When the first dragon popped it's head up it got a natural "20" leap attack, power attack, from an enlarged and raging Goliath. Took around 183 damage or so. It used it's breath weapon on the Goliath but Protection from Energy negated all the damage.

The second dragon poked it's head up and it used it's breath weapon on me and after laughing, I used a maximize rod with Shivering Touch and hit the dragon foolish enough to attack me. I overcame it's 19 spell resistance and it became paralyzed. The Goliath finished off her dragon, then walked over and spent 10 rounds beating on the one that I paralyzed.