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Admiral Squish
2013-01-21, 03:01 PM
So, this is a quick post, because I'm already elbow-deep in three or four other projects, and the idea will likely not survive in my brain until they're all brought to conclusion.

So, the basic idea is an alternate-history america where a series of awesome changes happen.

The first (chronological) change regards the Dorset culture, also known as the Tuniit. According to the eskimo, the Tuniit were those who ruled the north-east canada and greenland area. They are described as huge people, extremely tall and thickly muscled. There are various depictions of them carrying walruses across their shoulders (an adult walrus weighs between 800-1200 pounds). They could even be the source of the legends of arctic giants in inuit and norse myth. The idea is that, after driving back the norse, instead of settling back and resting on their laurels, they build up their forces, incorporating viking metalworking into their technology. Now when the Thule come over, instead of displacing the Dorset, the dorset assimilate the Thule and their technology, creating a cultural force to be reckoned with. The Tuniit expand their lands, expanding south, moving inland and down the eastern shore of canada, eventually going as far south as the Great Lakes and some northeastern states. Their territory is thus named Tuniitaq, the land of the Tuniit.

The second event that needs to happen is the Chinese colonization of North America. The 1421 theory puts forth that a chinese expedition made landfall on the americas in 1421, an alternate Columbus landing around the Washington area or a bit north thereof. My idea is that, instead of being just a one-time thing, china returns and establishes a colony, which expands in a similar fashion to the american colonies, taking over most of the area west of the Rockies. This land is now referred to by the chinese as Fusang.

The third event is the defeat of Cortez. The aztec win. This one came close a few times, actually. The Aztec defeat the spaniards, and kill most of them. The few who survive trade steel technology and firearms for their survival. The aztec, armed with this new tech, expand dramatically north and south, becoming something akin to the roman empire. They call these northern lands Aztlan, reaching as far north as Texas and the deep south.

Now, fast forward and let European history continue unaffected. The pilgrims settle and expand. Now, the fledgeling colonies must contend with the Tuniit giants in the north, the aggressively expanding Aztec in the south, and the Fusang Chinese in the far west. Then you throw in the native americans, maybe a bit of magic here and there, and you get one hell of a crazy continent.

Doesn't that sound FREAKING AWESOME?

LOTRfan
2013-01-21, 03:53 PM
This sounds really, really cool. Quick question; how are the Aztecs fairing against the diseases brought by the Spaniards in this alternate timeline?

And allow me to offer my Jaguar Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10609837&postcount=1) PrC, which is based off of the Aztec Jaguar Warriors (though obviously their legends/stories rather than an actual historical basis). Actually, an Eagle Warrior prestige class would be pretty cool, too...

Wyntonian
2013-01-21, 03:58 PM
10/10 would play.

Seriously, though. I like it a lot, it's a genuinely interesting take on history.

Everything's cooler with magic, though.

LOTRfan
2013-01-21, 04:00 PM
Oh, also, allow me to offer the Skinwalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9686187&postcount=1) I created a while back.

I'm thinking of what other creatures could be used for this. I mean, Bigfeet, Skunk apes, Jackalopes, and Jersey Devils work for a start, as do Mothmen.

Also, although technically the Senmurv is based off of a Persian creature, I could see the D&D Senmurv fitting in here pretty well.

EDIT: Oh, and if you're into creepypasta, you can use Chokers as creatures similar to the Rake of the northeastern United States.

EDIT II: Apparently the Carbuncle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10587163&postcount=15) is based off a legend from Latin America.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-21, 04:29 PM
That was fast!

On the subject of disease. The diseases obviously take a toll, but it's not as severe as it was in the original timeline. There's less forced relocation, the spaniards don't spend as much time in the main city, and such. We're still looking at something like 30% mortality. But the Aztecs would probably view it as a 'forged in fire' incident. The weak are slain by the Spaniard's plague, the new, strong empire that emerges bears weapons stronger than anything seen in this part of the world, which makes them an unstoppable force in their conquest. Considering how much they liked human sacrifice, it seems it wouldn't be all that unusual for them.

Jaguar warrior is pretty awesome, but I'm not that fond of shadow magic. Mysteries are wierd.

Indeed, everything IS cooler with magic.

I DEFINITELY want to include Native American, Inuit, and Aztec lore in this setting. Mythic creatures, magic, and such. I'm a huge fan of these 'exotic' mythologies and I'd love to have a chance to include them in a setting.

Pokonic
2013-01-21, 04:36 PM
That was fast!

On the subject of disease. The diseases obviously take a toll, but it's not as severe as it was in the original timeline. There's less forced relocation, the spaniards don't spend as much time in the main city, and such. We're still looking at something like 30% mortality. But the Aztecs would probably view it as a 'forged in fire' incident. The weak are slain by the Spaniard's plague, the new, strong empire that emerges bears weapons stronger than anything seen in this part of the world, which makes them an unstoppable force in their conquest. Considering how much they liked human sacrifice, it seems it wouldn't be all that unusual for them.

Jaguar warrior is pretty awesome, but I'm not that fond of shadow magic. Mysteries are wierd.

Indeed, everything IS cooler with magic.

I DEFINITELY want to include Native American, Inuit, and Aztec lore in this setting. Mythic creatures, magic, and such. I'm a huge fan of these 'exotic' mythologies and I'd love to have a chance to include them in a setting.

Of note, nearly all the native peoples of north america belived in "little folk". Probably would be worth it to include a Gnome-like race that has crawled out of the wordwork to assist in the "removal" of those pesky white people.

LOTRfan
2013-01-21, 04:44 PM
I'm trying to mentally make a list of the various cryptids/colonial folkloric creatures/native mythological creatures I can think of.

Thunderbird (northwestern United States, found in Sandstorm)
Carbuncle (northern Mexico/southern United States, I statted them up)
Jackalope (central United States, these need to be statted up)
Rake (northeastern United States, I recommend Choker stats)
Skinwalker (central United States, I statted them up)
Wendigo (northeastern United States, I think they're in the Fiend Folio)
Giant Blue Oxen (like Babe, stats would be needed)
Hodag (Northern United States, stats needed)
Chupacabra (Mexico, stats needed)
Deer Women (Central United States, stats needed)

Also, just an idea; packs of undead spirit-zombie canines called Red Rovers.

EDIT: Oh, Bhu created stats for Deer Women. We could ask to use them, maybe.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-21, 04:54 PM
*goes to check* Confirmed! Not sure if they'd be a race, though. Maybe they're more like native fey? There's only ONE group of pesky white people, though. I think perhaps the little people would probably be interested in removing all the invading forces. Chinese, English, Aztec and maybe Tuniit.

It does bring up a subject to address. I don't know if it would be offensive to give real-world racial groups stat adjustments like typical D&D races.

Either way, the list of playable races would be pretty limited. Against my usual preferences, but I think I could deal with it in this case, since it's just SO AWESOME. Five, possibly six playable races.

Pokonic
2013-01-21, 05:02 PM
*goes to check* Confirmed! Not sure if they'd be a race, though. Maybe they're more like native fey? There's only ONE group of pesky white people, though. I think perhaps the little people would probably be interested in removing all the invading forces. Chinese, English, Aztec and maybe Tuniit.

It does bring up a subject to address. I don't know if it would be offensive to give real-world racial groups stat adjustments like typical D&D races.

Either way, the list of playable races would be pretty limited. Against my usual preferences, but I think I could deal with it in this case, since it's just SO AWESOME. Five, possibly six playable races.

I say that, while, everyone is human, the varying human groups bring some "friends" with them. I do think it would be acceptible to have different favored classes, however.

For a totaly-not original example, as a result of the magical nature of the setting, the plains indians have humanoid buffalo living amongst them. The same could be said with jaguar/eagle/snake folk possibly living in Aztlan. The Tuniit probably should get there own seperate stats as well.

So, yeah, the easiest way to fix this is to slap a template on a few animals and call it a night.:smallbiggrin:

Admiral Squish
2013-01-21, 05:45 PM
Man. I drew up a little map of the five territories across a blank North American map, but it won't upload to photobucket for some reason. Sucks.

As for the idea of other races, it's certainly plausible. There's even a tale of a native woman who married a buffalo. Perhaps such marriages led to this race of buffalo-folk? I once made a race of aztec-themed snake people, too. Can't find 'em, but I did.

But then, on the subject of giving the various nations distinct stats, the Tuniit are supposed to be very large and strong, so I can't just use human stats for them. But then, they're extinct so I don't think I'd offend anyone by giving them nonhuman stats.

Pokonic
2013-01-21, 05:54 PM
On races: Buffalotaurs (akin to Centaurs rather than Minotaurs, in this case) could be another option to really screw with others around them. Sure, there's no basis for them in myth, but they could be a decent NPC race of sorts that tend the herds along with the indians proper.

LOTRfan
2013-01-21, 05:54 PM
Have you considered using the gunslinger class from pathfinder?

Just because I think it's a pretty well done class.

SamBurke
2013-01-21, 05:55 PM
Oh my flipping great jumping terrasques.

WOULD.

PLAY.

I want to make a few notes, though: Fusang is going to not be an issue. The Sierra Desert, combined with the Rocky Mountains, made life extremely hard for pioneers in the 1890s, not to mention the 1700s.

Question: When in our timeline is this set?

Question2: How long ago was magic discovered?

Question3: Will the changes that inevitably come with magic be discussed at all?

Question4: Would you ever let people playtest inside this theoretical vague campaign world? :smallbiggrin:

Admiral Squish
2013-01-21, 06:19 PM
On races: Buffalotaurs (akin to Centaurs rather than Minotaurs, in this case) could be another option to really screw with others around them. Sure, there's no basis for them in myth, but they could be a decent NPC race of sorts that tend the herds along with the indians proper.

I was thinking more along the lines of visually-modified tauren. Not the most creative, but the flavor's already there, you know


Have you considered using the gunslinger class from pathfinder?

Just because I think it's a pretty well done class.

I had considered, but I was thinking we're still in musket times, not revolvers.


Oh my flipping great jumping terrasques.

WOULD.

PLAY.

I want to make a few notes, though: Fusang is going to not be an issue. The Sierra Desert, combined with the Rocky Mountains, made life extremely hard for pioneers in the 1890s, not to mention the 1700s.

Question: When in our timeline is this set?

Question2: How long ago was magic discovered?

Question3: Will the changes that inevitably come with magic be discussed at all?

Question4: Would you ever let people playtest inside this theoretical vague campaign world? :smallbiggrin:

Well, it depends on where you play. I mean, not everyone's gonna play colonists, you could start adventuring in the fusang region, or the native lands, or aztlan.

#1: Not sure. I think ~1750 is a good time frame. Just before the american revolution in our timeline.

#2: Magic's always existed, but it's relatively rare. Europe has largely forgotten the practice in the name of science and industry, and let's not forget the whole inquisition thing. Magic takes years to learn, but you can put a musket in any idiot's hands and turn him into a soldier. Shamanism's going strong in Tuniit and Native cultures, but it requires a lot of dedication. Aztec do blood magic, sacrifices to divine entities. China has magic, but it's been heavily restricted to noble castes, and they treat it more like a science.

Of course, this may not be the wisest course to go down. Like I said, it's super-vague.

#3: I suppose that's why this thread's here. How the world would be different if XY and Z happened or were different.

#4: I would LOVE for people to playtest this. Feel totally free.

Pokonic
2013-01-21, 06:33 PM
On buffalo-people: I was suggesting both a minotaur-ish version as well as a centaur-ish version, with the minotaur race being playable and the centaurish-version...not.

Also, knowing my history, China has few humanoid monsters, but we do have the same sort of fox-like shapeshifters most other asian culture's have. Not sure if they would be a player race or not, but it's certaintly a option to have them.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-21, 06:42 PM
Debating about renaming the thread something more immediately explanatory. Like... Wild America or something. Not sure.

Also, the map worked finally!

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g54/ewurtsmith/WildAmerica.gif


On buffalo-people: I was suggesting both a minotaur-ish version as well as a centaur-ish version, with the minotaur race being playable and the centaurish-version...not.

Also, knowing my history, China has few humanoid monsters, but we do have the same sort of fox-like shapeshifters most other asian culture's have. Not sure if they would be a player race or not, but it's certaintly a option to have them.

Ahhh. Yeah, that could work. Though, honestly, I don't know about two races made from the same animal. Seems like there's so many options, we could easily make a variety of options. Maybe instead of buffalo-centaur, we make deer-centaur?

Well, the thing to keep in mind is that whatever playable creature we decide would share the land in fusang, would have to be something they brought with them. Since there's no natural migration path, they would have to be either intentionally brought along, or have stowed away in sufficient numbers to populate the area.

LOTRfan
2013-01-21, 06:50 PM
Deer-centaur also have a mythological basis; the Deer Women I mentioned earlier.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-21, 07:18 PM
Been looking into a lot of native american mythology. I have like nine wiki tabs open. Not a lot of information, though. But I am seeing that 'little people' common thread that was mentioned before. I've also been seeing the Horned Serpent showing up a lot. Deer Woman was definitely in there, too.

Pokonic
2013-01-21, 07:25 PM
Ahhh. Yeah, that could work. Though, honestly, I don't know about two races made from the same animal. Seems like there's so many options, we could easily make a variety of options. Maybe instead of buffalo-centaur, we make deer-centaur?

Well, the thing to keep in mind is that whatever playable creature we decide would share the land in fusang, would have to be something they brought with them. Since there's no natural migration path, they would have to be either intentionally brought along, or have stowed away in sufficient numbers to populate the area.


Well, they are shapeshifters. Understandably, if there was sufficant amounts of immigration, some Huli jing would probably go for a ride as well. If the america's are more "free" when it comes to magic, it makes sense for some to be less uptight about there true natures.



Deer-centaur also have a mythological basis; the Deer Women I mentioned earlier.

Also, this sounds nice.

On the topic of the "little folk", I am only aware of the Cherokee myths (http://www.ilhawaii.net/~stony/lore132.html) on the subject, but I could have sworn....

Anyway, the Stone people could be Dwarves, the Laurel People Gnomes, and the Dogwood People Halflings if we wanted to got that route.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-21, 07:45 PM
Well, they are shapeshifters. Understandably, if there was sufficant amounts of immigration, some Huli jing would probably go for a ride as well. If the america's are more "free" when it comes to magic, it makes sense for some to be less uptight about there true natures.

I was looking into the timeline, and between the arrival of the first chinese settlers and the current time, the dynasty in mainland china changed, from Ming to Qing. I've heard in my research that the Qing dynasty put a concerted effort into destroying all the Ming records and culture. If we made it so Fusang was the last remnant of the Ming, we get a kind of 'you can't go home' theme. It could be filled with refugees fleeing the Qing revolution. Maybe the Qing decided to destroy all the remnants of Ming magical practices and maybe even magical creatures, meaning the Ming mages and magical peoples would all try to flee to Fusang.



On the topic of the "little folk", I am only aware of the Cherokee myths (http://www.ilhawaii.net/~stony/lore132.html) on the subject, but I could have sworn....

Anyway, the Stone people could be Dwarves, the Laurel People Gnomes, and the Dogwood People Halflings if we wanted to got that route.

One cool thing about this setting is the idea that these things aren't just going to be expys of traditional Tolkien species and such, the races and magical creatures are going to be unique, fresh takes on things. Little people won't be remakes of dwarves or gnomes, they'll be their own things.

I've found reference to little people in a bunch of tribes, and they're all different. I will admit, your link is a lot more in depth than the stuff in wikipedia, though. There's a whole list here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_people_%28mythology%29#Native_American_folk lore).

Pokonic
2013-01-21, 07:58 PM
I was looking into the timeline, and between the arrival of the first chinese settlers and the current time, the dynasty in mainland china changed, from Ming to Qing. I've heard in my research that the Qing dynasty put a concerted effort into destroying all the Ming records and culture. If we made it so Fusang was the last remnant of the Ming, we get a kind of 'you can't go home' theme. It could be filled with refugees fleeing the Qing revolution. Maybe the Qing decided to destroy all the remnants of Ming magical practices and maybe even magical creatures, meaning the Ming mages and magical peoples would all try to flee to Fusang.


Hmm, I like this idea, a lot.


One cool thing about this setting is the idea that these things aren't just going to be expys of traditional Tolkien species and such, the races and magical creatures are going to be unique, fresh takes on things. Little people won't be remakes of dwarves or gnomes, they'll be their own things.

I've found reference to little people in a bunch of tribes, and they're all difference. There's a whole list here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_people_%28mythology%29#Native_American_folk lore).



"opens mouth"

"closes it in mild awe"

Admiral Squish
2013-01-21, 08:12 PM
I think this campaign setting is gonna need a proper name, and probably a much nicer thread once we get some details down.

One other thing: Do you think japan would have tried a colony of their own?

Vexillation
2013-01-21, 08:21 PM
As a an alternative history campaign, I think this idea is incredibly intricate and interesting. You might even consider running the campaign during the different landmark epochs to see how these transitions play out in real-time (mainly from a role-playing perspective). It would be fascinating to see how everything played out if the timeline progressed differently.

The one thing I would be worried about is getting bogged down in the details. There is literally so much going on here that it might be easy to get overwhelmed, not that I'm saying you wouldn't be up for the challenge ;D

Anyhow, I think you could make your work simpler if you figured out what the aim for the campaign would be, then you could filter the information that you're generating for the entire setting, allowing you to rarefy your workload and make for a very coherent, immersive and fascinating campaign.

Also, for the Buffalo-folk, you could consider modifying the Yakfolk race from Monster Manual II - seems like a natural choice. Alternatively, they could easily fit explicably into the Fusang region, as part of the magical expatriates/exiles alluded to above.

All around an excellent idea though - good luck with making progress. I look forward to seeing what you come up with :)

LOTRfan
2013-01-21, 08:36 PM
So what's going on with the French colonies? Have they failed?

Admiral Squish
2013-01-21, 08:57 PM
As a an alternative history campaign, I think this idea is incredibly intricate and interesting. You might even consider running the campaign during the different landmark epochs to see how these transitions play out in real-time (mainly from a role-playing perspective). It would be fascinating to see how everything played out if the timeline progressed differently.

The one thing I would be worried about is getting bogged down in the details. There is literally so much going on here that it might be easy to get overwhelmed, not that I'm saying you wouldn't be up for the challenge ;D

Anyhow, I think you could make your work simpler if you figured out what the aim for the campaign would be, then you could filter the information that you're generating for the entire setting, allowing you to rarefy your workload and make for a very coherent, immersive and fascinating campaign.

Also, for the Buffalo-folk, you could consider modifying the Yakfolk race from Monster Manual II - seems like a natural choice. Alternatively, they could easily fit explicably into the Fusang region, as part of the magical expatriates/exiles alluded to above.

All around an excellent idea though - good luck with making progress. I look forward to seeing what you come up with :)

That would be awesome, but since we've changed so much, I think just creating a single time frame will be hard enough. I mean, I'd welcome people to set campaigns in various time frames near that time. Mid-revolution would be awesome, but I think, for the moment at least, that would have to be the DM's work.

There are a lot of details, but I think that's part of the fun. Plus, you know, magic, so, we can take some liberties.

Well, I don't have a specific campaign in mind. I really just came up with it in the car the other day. Me and my brother were talking about alternate history and what ifs, and I brought up the chinese landfall and her brought up how close cortez came to failing. Then he posited what would have happened if the american colonists had run into the aztec empire and New China while colonizing. I'd been checking out the dorset on my own for a while and the whole thing got wrapped up together in my brain in this little awesome bow.

I think buffalo-folk should be more playable than yakfolk, honestly. A lot of RHD and high LA wouldn't work well. I think I'll base them off tauren stats I made a while back, but less of a direct translation.

Thanks a lot! I'm really amazed how popular this thing became, how cool it is.


So what's going on with the French colonies? Have they failed?

Initial north american colonization for the french was in the Quebec area, in the middle of the Tuniit territory in this setting. I don't think they'd have taken kindly to it. Not sure exactly how it would have gone, or what they'd have done when rebuffed, though.

Astral Avenger
2013-01-21, 09:30 PM
If anyone is doing a play test i'm in :smallbiggrin:

It seems kind of odd that the Aztec would have only the tip of Baja California, they were never a naval country (unless I'm forgetting/ never learned something). I would think that they would have to have controlled enough area north of where the peninsula attaches the mainland to have had the ability to move into the peninsula. Just my 2c, other than that one part of the map catching my eye, it looks really freaking awesome.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-21, 10:16 PM
If anyone is doing a play test i'm in :smallbiggrin:

It seems kind of odd that the Aztec would have only the tip of Baja California, they were never a naval country (unless I'm forgetting/ never learned something). I would think that they would have to have controlled enough area north of where the peninsula attaches the mainland to have had the ability to move into the peninsula. Just my 2c, other than that one part of the map catching my eye, it looks really freaking awesome.

Good point. I suspect they would have canoes or something to get up and down rivers, but no like, serious warships. Maybe the captured spaniards taught them that, too. I mean, they probably wouldn't be very good with them, but they could have some, at least. Anyways, good point, the chinese would definitely have an edge in naval combat, and should probably hold the whole peninsula.

Wyntonian
2013-01-21, 10:20 PM
If anyone is doing a play test i'm in :smallbiggrin:

It seems kind of odd that the Aztec would have only the tip of Baja California, they were never a naval country (unless I'm forgetting/ never learned something). I would think that they would have to have controlled enough area north of where the peninsula attaches the mainland to have had the ability to move into the peninsula. Just my 2c, other than that one part of the map catching my eye, it looks really freaking awesome.

Well, they got plenty of tech from the failed conquistadores, including metalsmithing and guns. No reason they couldn't learn how to make ships as well.

Are the colonies in question British? Or are other European nations taking a pass at it?

Ooh, idea. Britain has banned magic for religious reasons, but the new Americans are perfectly accepting of it. Being able to shoot fire is kind of a bonus when you're alternating between being frozen to death and being attacked by Natives.

Also, if there's a playtest, I've got dibs on a moosetaur.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-21, 10:34 PM
Are the colonies in question British? Or are other European nations taking a pass at it?

Ooh, idea. Britain has banned magic for religious reasons, but the new Americans are perfectly accepting of it. Being able to shoot fire is kind of a bonus when you're alternating between being frozen to death and being attacked by Natives.

Also, if there's a playtest, I've got dibs on a moosetaur.

Yes, british. Just because I can't be bothered to redraw the lines of who owned what and everyone else's areas are occupied already.

That was something like the plan, yes. Europe's exterminated most of it's magic users during the inquisition and any of the ones left were driven into hiding. Religious freedom in the new land means magic can be out in the open again, though there's still some stigma attached.

Know what? I can't find any myths regarding moosetaur, but it's so awesome, I'm gonna make it anyways. Are you thinking more like centaur, or minotaur?

Salbazier
2013-01-21, 11:18 PM
Yes, this is awesome :smallbiggrin:

How high the magic level would be? Because magic will change lots of things. Dealing with the imported disease, for example. or how the inquisition and the magic purge in the old world went.

Speaking of magic, different cultures would have different style of magic. Wizards for example would be distinctly European. Pathfinder witch (with spell list modification, if necessary) fit the new worlders. Totemist, well, it has totem on its name. Probably the most fitting class for this setting.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-21, 11:38 PM
Okay, here's a list of possible races/monsters to make.

Natives:
Buffalo-men (minotaurs)
Deer-women (centaurs)
Little people (Gnome-esque)
Thunderbird (Giant lightning bird)
Horned Serpent (Sea Serpents)
Skin-walkers (Shapeshifters)

Tuniit:
Shadow-people (Immigrants from the plane of shadow)
Moose-taurs
Skin-walkers (Shapeshifters)
Cold Giants (Giants)

Aztec:
Jaguar-folk
Eagle-folk
Serpent-folk
Coatl (Magic flying serpents)
Ahuitzotl (Water-Dog with a hand on it's tail)
Cipactli (Mystic awesome crocodile)

Chinese:
Feng/huang (Pheonixes)
Dragons (Chinese)
Jiang Shi (corpse-puppets)
Huli Jing (Fox-spirits)
ShiShi (Guardian lion-dogs)


Yes, this is awesome :smallbiggrin:

How high the magic level would be? Because magic will change lots of things. Dealing with the imported disease, for example. or how the inquisition and the magic purge in the old world went.

Speaking of magic, different cultures would have different style of magic. Wizards for example would be distinctly European. Pathfinder witch (with spell list modification, if necessary) fit the new worlders. Totemist, well, it has totem on its name. Probably the most fitting class for this setting.

Magic is a thing, but it's generally rare, and often tightly-controlled. That's part of why the natives have a chance, their shamans can handle the plagues the colonists bring. Like, you probably wouldn't go your whole life without seeing it, and it's generally accepted that it exists in the world, but it's not usually an everyday kind of thing.

Definitely something I've been thinking about. Aztec magic is gonna be bloody. Sacrifices abound, blood magic, and such. Wearing skin to gain it's power, stuff like that. Probably divine in nature, but not for the weak of stomach. Native casters and tuniit are gonna be shamans and druids and such. Chinese casters are gonna take some work. Wu jen, maybe? And the colonists are gonna be warlocks, witches, sorcerers, and such. Back in europe, the only casting allowed is gonna be divine.

Wyntonian
2013-01-21, 11:58 PM
Yes, british. Just because I can't be bothered to redraw the lines of who owned what and everyone else's areas are occupied already.

That was something like the plan, yes. Europe's exterminated most of it's magic users during the inquisition and any of the ones left were driven into hiding. Religious freedom in the new land means magic can be out in the open again, though there's still some stigma attached.

Know what? I can't find any myths regarding moosetaur, but it's so awesome, I'm gonna make it anyways. Are you thinking more like centaur, or minotaur?

Roughly in order cause I don't want to dissect your quote:

Apply notable amounts of Handwavium and say that Spain still owns Florida and parts of the Caribbean, maybe? Or Portugal, or a anachronistically unified Italy, or whoever.

Magic sounds good, I like that. Existence of warlocks implies some sort of Faustian Pact. Is there anything in existence to make that pact with? Or is it a metaphorical "deal with the devil" wherein being evil gives you strength?
Or, alternatively, it just gets left open to refluffing.

As for the moose-taur....I dunno. Either one, I guess. Neither of them make very much sense from a biological perspective, but eh. It's cool, either way.

Also, let's be honest, Thunderbirds are Zapdos. They just are.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-22, 09:29 AM
Roughly in order cause I don't want to dissect your quote:

Apply notable amounts of Handwavium and say that Spain still owns Florida and parts of the Caribbean, maybe? Or Portugal, or a anachronistically unified Italy, or whoever.

Magic sounds good, I like that. Existence of warlocks implies some sort of Faustian Pact. Is there anything in existence to make that pact with? Or is it a metaphorical "deal with the devil" wherein being evil gives you strength?
Or, alternatively, it just gets left open to refluffing.

As for the moose-taur....I dunno. Either one, I guess. Neither of them make very much sense from a biological perspective, but eh. It's cool, either way.

Also, let's be honest, Thunderbirds are Zapdos. They just are.

That could work. The Colonies would refer to all european colonies, and I might subdivide them later once we move to a shinier thread.

I think that it's best if we limit the planes to just the material plane and possibly a spirit world/dream world. I think for this purpose, I'd like to remake the warlock into something significantly less dark and more 'raw'. An individual with a sorcerous talent but no training or understanding of what their spells should be able to do.

Who needs biology? Honestly, tauric designs are stupid, from a biological perspective. You'd have either redundant organ systems, a half of the body with less bloodflow/oxygen than normal, or weirdly misproprtioned parts. But they ARE cool, so we do them anyway. I had like a two-page discussion about how to make a tauric body work in my thread about turtle-taurs.

I suppose it's an accurate description, but ours will be less... yellow.

Wyntonian
2013-01-22, 11:12 AM
I think that it's best if we limit the planes to just the material plane and possibly a spirit world/dream world. I think for this purpose, I'd like to remake the warlock into something significantly less dark and more 'raw'. An individual with a sorcerous talent but no training or understanding of what their spells should be able to do.

I suppose it's an accurate description, but ours will be less... yellow.

I like that best, it's pretty much what I did in Patria. Well, plus a Fey realm, but that's more of a embedded Escher painting that a true third plane.

And yeah, I have a mental image of them being kind of an oily black.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-22, 01:27 PM
Still trying to come up with a campaign setting name. Amerigo is similar enough to America that it would catch eyes. Columbia was used to refer to the new world in poetry. Both of those, however, indicate a strong colonial-centric perspective. My friend suggests Reflections of the New World. I could call it Nations of North America, just cause it comes with a nice abbreviation (NONA rolls right off the tongue). But I'm looking for something that just sounds PERFECT, you know? Sums the whole thing up nicely, grabs attention.


I like that best, it's pretty much what I did in Patria. Well, plus a Fey realm, but that's more of a embedded Escher painting that a true third plane.

And yeah, I have a mental image of them being kind of an oily black.

Yeah. I'm thinking souls hang around in the spirit world for a limited period of time, but then move on to realms beyond. The realms beyond are NOT places you can just take a day trip to. One-way journey and all that. But while they remain in the spirit world, they can be brought back to life with appropriately powerful magic.

Ooh, I like! Oily black feathers, like a living stormcloud, with bright yellow beaks and feet that stand out like thunderbolts against the black.

SamBurke
2013-01-22, 01:51 PM
NONA's easy to say, to be sure.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-22, 02:31 PM
Idea on how to handle Jaguar and Eagle folk in the aztec areas.

All men were in the military. Any warrior could become an eagle or jaguar warrior by capturing a certain number of soldiers in battle, which was essentially an upgrade from commoner to noble (A good way to motivate your soldiers). My idea is, instead of just dressing like the beast in question, there's a ritual involved that actually turns you into a beast-warrior. They sacrifice your final captured soldier and a living animal, either eagle or jaguar, and then anoint you in war paint and bathe you in blood. Thus, you are transformed into a powerful warrior. I'm thinking an acquired template, kinda like a dragonborn, that 'replaces' your natural race.

Then, I'm thinking Quetzal. Sorta like naga, human faces on feathered snake bodies. Children of Quetzalcoatl, left behind to serve as high priests and spiritual guides. They don't have arms, but they have phantom limbs of psionic power that let them manipulate items like they had arms. It's an idea I've been thinking about since my Tryor project. Maybe as they level they can even fly.

SamBurke
2013-01-22, 02:43 PM
Idea on how to handle Jaguar and Eagle folk in the aztec areas.

All men were in the military. Any warrior could become an eagle or jaguar warrior by capturing a certain number of soldiers in battle, which was essentially an upgrade from commoner to noble (A good way to motivate your soldiers). My idea is, instead of just dressing like the beast in question, there's a ritual involved that actually turns you into a beast-warrior. They sacrifice your final captured soldier and a living animal, either eagle or jaguar, and then anoint you in war paint and bathe you in blood. Thus, you are transformed into a powerful warrior. I'm thinking an acquired template, kinda like a dragonborn, that 'replaces' your natural race.

Then, I'm thinking Quetzal. Sorta like naga, human faces on feathered snake bodies. Children of Quetzalcoatl, left behind to serve as high priests and spiritual guides. They don't have arms, but they have phantom limbs of psionic power that let them manipulate items like they had arms. It's an idea I've been thinking about since my Tryor project. Maybe as they level they can even fly.

That works economically, and provides a lot of good incentive for them to be a very, very, warlike nation.

Are those races sterile, or do the children of Jaguar Nobles also become Jaguar Nobles?

The LOBster
2013-01-22, 02:48 PM
This. THIS is a setting I would play FOREVER. I mean, hell, my Fighter in 4e and 3.5 (Locke) is half-fantasy counterpart Native American and half-fantasy counterpart Colonist!

I seriously love you, Squish. For reals.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-22, 03:04 PM
That works economically, and provides a lot of good incentive for them to be a very, very, warlike nation.

Are those races sterile, or do the children of Jaguar Nobles also become Jaguar Nobles?

Mmmhm! It's actually a smart way to handle it. Social rewards for performance on the battlefield. 'Promotion' is directly related to performance, too.

I don't know, honestly. It doesn't mention how it works, exactly. I think the children would be normal humans. The only way to become an eagle or jaguar warrior would be to earn it on the battlefield.


This. THIS is a setting I would play. I mean, hell, my Fighter in 4e and 3.5 (Locke) is half-fantasy counterpart Native American and half-fantasy counterpart Colonist!

I'm so glad you like the idea! I'd love to hear your input, this is your chance to have a voice in the creation of the setting.

The LOBster
2013-01-22, 03:06 PM
Well, I'd put in Shifters as a sort of tribe as "good, natural-born Skinwalkers." Then again, I love beastfolk of all sorts, so... As for monsters, you definitely need a wendigo, a piasa, and maybe all sorts of cryptids, too.

Pokonic
2013-01-22, 03:10 PM
Mmmhm! It's actually a smart way to handle it. Social rewards for performance on the battlefield. 'Promotion' is directly related to performance, too.

I don't know, honestly. It doesn't mention how it works, exactly. I think the children would be normal humans. The only way to become an eagle or jaguar warrior would be to earn it on the battlefield.


But of course, if your family is high enough on the totem pole, you probably have a better chance at getting good gear and training required for such feats.

Also, on this note, is it a good time to set in stone what magical creatures lived in Europe that might have ended up half-smuggled into the new world? Ogres in france, Trolls in the GWN, Hag's from every decent-sized forest on the bloody contanant, a cockatrace breeding pair or two, heck, what few baby dragons/griffons/ect left might (IE: will) end up free to do as they please in the world...

Admiral Squish
2013-01-22, 03:42 PM
Well, I'd put in Shifters as a sort of tribe as "good, natural-born Skinwalkers." Then again, I love beastfolk of all sorts, so... As for monsters, you definitely need a wendigo, a piasa, and maybe all sorts of cryptids, too.

I dunno. I don't want to cram shifters into this setting, but I could see something more like a hyenogaki, perhaps? Wendigo, definitely. Piasa sounds like it could work. And I'm sorting cryptid legends into 'cool' and 'WTF'. There's a lot of wierd out there.


But of course, if your family is high enough on the totem pole, you probably have a better chance at getting good gear and training required for such feats.

Also, on this note, is it a good time to set in stone what magical creatures lived in Europe that might have ended up half-smuggled into the new world? Ogres in france, Trolls in the GWN, Hag's from every decent-sized forest on the bloody contanant, a cockatrace breeding pair or two, heck, what few baby dragons/griffons/ect left might (IE: will) end up free to do as they please in the world...

Oh, of course. Interestingly, the aztec were all home-schooled until the age of 14. There was government supervision and periodic tests, but parents were responsible for teaching their children all the basics.

I don't know about a bunch of those, honestly. I mean, if you look at the legends, europeans waged war on all sorts of magical beings for centuries. Dragonslaying was idolized. King arthur killed a couple ogres. Whenever the beasties are mentioned in legend, it's always a hero slaying them. I think that, for the most part, european magical creatures would be extinct or severely endangered. Some of the more intelligent ones who could slip beneath notice would have stowed away to escape the genocide. But it's likely the authorities would be watching closely for anyone trying to smuggle 'unholy' beasts to the new world.

Pokonic
2013-01-22, 03:55 PM
I don't know about a bunch of those, honestly. I mean, if you look at the legends, europeans waged war on all sorts of magical beings for centuries. Dragonslaying was idolized. King arthur killed a couple ogres. Whenever the beasties are mentioned in legend, it's always a hero slaying them. I think that, for the most part, european magical creatures would be extinct or severely endangered. Some of the more intelligent ones who could slip beneath notice would have stowed away to escape the genocide. But it's likely the authorities would be watching closely for anyone trying to smuggle 'unholy' beasts to the new world.

On thing of note is that one could possibly have a single "one size fits all" generic race of evil humanoids. Notably, a lot of things like giants, trolls, and other nasty vaugly bipedal humanoids tended to have the power to shapeshift, and all had plenty of varity. One of the things I am seeing the "new world" being is a magical free for all for whatever sneaks there way into it, or at least in the newer arrivals.

While it's true that anything magical in europe would have had to be very isolated to survive, the rush to the new world could give what's left a chance to start up the whole "child eating" business in the colonies, and anything that was wily enough to survive the Inquisition could hitch a ride on a ship. And, like the Huli Jing, those who are actualy sneaking in can shapeshift to pass customs.

To take Hellboy's example, New York has a massive magical creature population thanks to the native monsters and such hitching a ride with the people's they were associated with. Hence, there might be more irish trolls living under the Golden Gate Bridge than there actualy are in ireland.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-01-22, 03:59 PM
On thing of note is that one could possibly have a single "one size fits all" generic race of evil humanoids. Notably, a lot of things like giants, trolls, and other nasty vaugly bipedal humanoids tended to have the power to shapeshift, and all had plenty of varity. One of the things I am seeing the "new world" being is a magical free for all for whatever sneaks there way into it, or at least in the newer arrivals.

While it's true that anything magical in europe would have had to be very isolated to survive, the rush to the new world could give what's left a chance to start up the whole "child eating" business in the colonies, and anything that was wily enough to survive the Inquisition could hitch a ride on a ship. And, like the Huli Jing, those who are actualy sneaking in can shapeshift to pass customs.

To take Hellboy's example, New York has a massive magical creature population thanks to the native monsters and such hitching a ride with the people's they were associated with. Hence, there might be more irish trolls living under the Golden Gate Bridge than there actualy are in ireland.

Not to mention the tooth fairy being a mass of black imps.

SamBurke
2013-01-22, 04:06 PM
Not to mention the tooth fairy being a mass of black imps.

Well, that is a lot of nightmare fuel in one small package.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-22, 06:17 PM
On thing of note is that one could possibly have a single "one size fits all" generic race of evil humanoids. Notably, a lot of things like giants, trolls, and other nasty vaugly bipedal humanoids tended to have the power to shapeshift, and all had plenty of varity. One of the things I am seeing the "new world" being is a magical free for all for whatever sneaks there way into it, or at least in the newer arrivals.

While it's true that anything magical in europe would have had to be very isolated to survive, the rush to the new world could give what's left a chance to start up the whole "child eating" business in the colonies, and anything that was wily enough to survive the Inquisition could hitch a ride on a ship. And, like the Huli Jing, those who are actualy sneaking in can shapeshift to pass customs.

To take Hellboy's example, New York has a massive magical creature population thanks to the native monsters and such hitching a ride with the people's they were associated with. Hence, there might be more irish trolls living under the Golden Gate Bridge than there actualy are in ireland.

I can't find anything about trolls or ogres shapeshifting, honestly. Wikipedia's ogre entry is sorely lacking, though. It does point out the possibility that the origin of all strong, evil, man-eating, cave-dwelling monster myths originate from early contact with cave-dwelling neanderthals. Trolls, ogres and the like. Which is cool, but unrelated.

And yes, the new world is a lot more magically free, but getting there's the hard part. Getting a ship across the sea in this time requires a lot of funds. Big city traders and royals would be the only ones who could afford to finance such journeys. And none of them are gonna go against the monolithic power of the church to ferry a bunch of poor, ugly ogres across the sea. They'd have to pay their way, with a little extra on top for the secrecy and risk involved.

Shape-shifters would obviously have an advantage in sneaking across the sea, but I'm not seeing a lot of those in european legend. Specifically english, french, or spanish lore. Werewolves are one of the only things I can come up with that actually shapeshift.

RPGuru1331
2013-01-22, 06:28 PM
Quick note regarding the Aztec war - if it was still a 'close' fight then the Europeans would still have maintained considerable help from the native populations under Aztecan rule. There is simply no way 200 vs. millions would remain close, especially not with just flintlocks and horses.


Initial north american colonization for the french was in the Quebec area, in the middle of the Tuniit territory in this setting. I don't think they'd have taken kindly to it. Not sure exactly how it would have gone, or what they'd have done when rebuffed, though.
And another quick note, French expansion into the Northeast USA was considerably more peaceful than the spanish - I don't know how the Tuniit responded to trade, but trade is a thing that often happens.

SamBurke
2013-01-22, 06:30 PM
I can't find anything about trolls or ogres shapeshifting, honestly. Wikipedia's ogre entry is sorely lacking, though. It does point out the possibility that the origin of all strong, evil, man-eating, cave-dwelling monster myths originate from early contact with cave-dwelling neanderthals. Trolls, ogres and the like. Which is cool, but unrelated.

And yes, the new world is a lot more magically free, but getting there's the hard part. Getting a ship across the sea in this time requires a lot of funds. Big city traders and royals would be the only ones who could afford to finance such journeys. And none of them are gonna go against the monolithic power of the church to ferry a bunch of poor, ugly ogres across the sea. They'd have to pay their way, with a little extra on top for the secrecy and risk involved.

Shape-shifters would obviously have an advantage in sneaking across the sea, but I'm not seeing a lot of those in european legend. Specifically english, french, or spanish lore. Werewolves are one of the only things I can come up with that actually shapeshift.

Werewolves are cool.

I believe witches and vampires are about the best we've got, though, outside werewolves. I know Bram Stoker popularized the latter, but how long ago were they first *invented*?

Pokonic
2013-01-22, 06:51 PM
I can't find anything about trolls or ogres shapeshifting, honestly. Wikipedia's ogre entry is sorely lacking, though. It does point out the possibility that the origin of all strong, evil, man-eating, cave-dwelling monster myths originate from early contact with cave-dwelling neanderthals. Trolls, ogres and the like. Which is cool, but unrelated.

And yes, the new world is a lot more magically free, but getting there's the hard part. Getting a ship across the sea in this time requires a lot of funds. Big city traders and royals would be the only ones who could afford to finance such journeys. And none of them are gonna go against the monolithic power of the church to ferry a bunch of poor, ugly ogres across the sea. They'd have to pay their way, with a little extra on top for the secrecy and risk involved.

Shape-shifters would obviously have an advantage in sneaking across the sea, but I'm not seeing a lot of those in european legend. Specifically english, french, or spanish lore. Werewolves are one of the only things I can come up with that actually shapeshift.

True, I am realy only familer with stories about witchs and such. For simplicies sake, it could be that hags and trolls/ogres/others of the like are all realy the same species, but females tend to be on the more magical side of things.

Of course, there begs the question on "how did Ageina, Terror of the Black Hills, eater of children, Bane of Bowerfen and such survive the general magical hunt a few decades ago and end up in Phillydelphia as a supposed baker's wife?", but then again, if anything manages to survive the weeding out of European fay-folk, witchs, and other nasty things, it would be the creatures with de magics who could cook a mans wife, wear her flesh, and generaly sneak into human society without much fear. After all, says the farmer, there are no more hags left, right?

On vampires and werewolves: They could probably hitch a ride over, but it would depend on what sort we are talking about. Naturaly, if a midshipman does not go outside on a boat for a week, that's going to raise alarms, and a werewolf, if one goes with the traditinal once-per-month deal, is screwed on a crowded boat.

Then again, it's possible that many inteligent creatures managed to survive the whole "magical genocide" thing by quietly moving east. It's probably not safe for your health to be alive in Romania, however. Pity the poles, for that matter, and Russia's probably not too hot either. Something's rotten in Denmark, indeed.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-22, 08:00 PM
Quick note regarding the Aztec war - if it was still a 'close' fight then the Europeans would still have maintained considerable help from the native populations under Aztecan rule. There is simply no way 200 vs. millions would remain close, especially not with just flintlocks and horses.

True, true. The spaniards turned many of the aztec's rivals against them, but the aztec would have been able to manage that sort of rebellion if they hadn't been weakened by the spaniard's diseases, or invited the spaniards and their newly-recruited allies into the city. There would have been a period of instability, surely, but the spaniards didn't bring weapons for all the new allies. They'd be using the old warclubs while the aztec would have the newly-purloined firearms and iron blades, taken from the fallen spaniards, while the captured spaniards would be teaching them how to forge iron. And they would have been able to use those blades to good effect, too, because the aztec practiced a form of small-army warfare that would allow them to arm their entire fighting force with these blades, despite only having a few.


And another quick note, French expansion into the Northeast USA was considerably more peaceful than the spanish - I don't know how the Tuniit responded to trade, but trade is a thing that often happens.

Had not considered that, honestly. The tuniit in legend are characterized as easily frightened off and 'speak like children', which could indicate low intelligence, or simple a strong language barrier. Inuit is a really hard language, after all. But in this timeline the tuniit are significantly more territorial. I don't think they'd be willing to trade away their land, even if approached peacefully. They'd certainly be willing to trade goods, but not their land.


Werewolves are cool.

I believe witches and vampires are about the best we've got, though, outside werewolves. I know Bram Stoker popularized the latter, but how long ago were they first *invented*?

Vampires as we recognize them today have existed for hundreds and hundreds of years. They were around before the spread of christianity, it seems. But they weren't referred to as vampires. Many demons and spirits were known to drink blood. Lilith, the first bride of adam, was referred to as a demon who 'subsisted on the blood of babies'. The modern depiction of vampire arose in the 12th century, plenty of time for them to be established before the colonists.


True, I am realy only familer with stories about witchs and such. For simplicies sake, it could be that hags and trolls/ogres/others of the like are all realy the same species, but females tend to be on the more magical side of things.

Of course, there begs the question on "how did Ageina, Terror of the Black Hills, eater of children, Bane of Bowerfen and such survive the general magical hunt a few decades ago and end up in Phillydelphia as a supposed baker's wife?", but then again, if anything manages to survive the weeding out of European fay-folk, witchs, and other nasty things, it would be the creatures with de magics who could cook a mans wife, wear her flesh, and generaly sneak into human society without much fear. After all, there are no more hags left, right?

On vampires and werewolves: They could probably hitch a ride over, but it would depend on what sort we are talking about. Naturaly, if a midshipman does not go outside on a boat for a week, that's going to raise alarms, and a werewolf, if one goes with the traditinal once-per-month deal, is screwed on a crowded boat.

Then again, it's possible that many magical creatures managed to survive the whole "magical genocide" thing by quitely moving east. It's probably not safe for your health to be alive in Romania, however. Pity the poles, for that matter, and Russia's probably not too hot either. Something's rotten in Denmark, indeed.

Ahh, I get what you're saying, now. It's an interesting take on things, certainly. Legends even hold that female trolls are breathtakingly beautiful and magical, which would support your explanation. But it's also said the females are extremely fond and protective of their male kindred.

True, true. A valid point, indeed. One would have to assume, though, that if they were largely successful, the church inquisition forces would have to be highly competent. But I'm sure sufficiently wily and powerful witches, hags, vampires and the like might be able to slip through their fingers.

Well, columbus' first voyage across the sea took five weeks, counting the time they stopped to repair one of their ships, and a few blind stumbles around the general area. It's theoretically possible that a better-aimed ship under favorable conditions with slightly more advanced seafaring tech could complete the journey in four, barely enough time for a well-timed voyage to take a werewolf from one shore to the other between full moons.

Also a possible outcome. I mean, intelligent creatures, at least, could move eastward as the inquisition tries to murder them all. Some would come to america, certainly, or try to, but the easier option is for them to head east overland instead of trying to secure a ship and all that.

ArlEammon
2013-01-22, 08:07 PM
It would be interesting to play a "Witch" the Salem guys were always ranting about.

Pokonic
2013-01-22, 08:08 PM
Ahh, I get what you're saying, now. It's an interesting take on things, certainly. Legends even hold that female trolls are breathtakingly beautiful and magical, which would support your explanation. But it's also said the females are extremely fond and protective of their male kindred.


Indeed, and as such Ageina, baker's wife, manages to convince her supposed husband to bring along her simple-minded but strong brother from germany('s Black Forest :smalltongue:), who may or may not be her brother/father/husband or whatever, but there's enough magic to go around for our example experianced hag to cast a simplistic weave of magic on her oafy brother to hide a extra head or a coat of hair or just generaly shrink him a little. And it's not like the saliors would complain if they get a worker who can carry a barrel under each arm out of the ride.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-22, 08:38 PM
Indeed, and as such Ageina, baker's wife, manages to convince her supposed husband to bring along her simple-minded but strong brother from germany('s Black Forest :smalltongue:), who may or may not be her brother/father/husband or whatever, but there's enough magic to go around for our example experianced hag to cast a simplistic weave of magic on her oafy brother to hide a extra head or a coat of hair or just generaly shrink him a little. And it's not like the saliors would complain if they get a worker who can carry a barrel under each arm out of the ride.

Alright, I'm sold on the concept. There are plausible ways for ogres/trolls to make their way to the new world, although they would hardly be coming over in droves. That means the colonials will bring Witches/Hags/Trollesses, Ogres/Trolls, vampires, and werewolves. Possibly fey?

Pokonic
2013-01-22, 08:47 PM
Alright, I'm sold on the concept. There are plausible ways for ogres/trolls to make their way to the new world, although they would hardly be coming over in droves. That means the colonials will bring Witches/Hags/Trollesses, Ogres/Trolls, vampires, and werewolves. Possibly fey?

Depends on what one considers fey. Hags and Trolls and the like might be fine leaving there hills and huts for greener pastures, but from my knowlege things like fairies are tied to certaint places, like individual caves or spots in the woods, and nature spirit-ish things would probably either be dead or very much in hiding after the whole "burn anything magical" fiasco that was most of recent history. Of course, if a bunch of humans start leaving, the local goblins./little people and such might sneak onboard a ship or two, or at least swap a few of there babies for giggles. Changelings/Fey of the new world, perhapes? It might be hard to tell if your baby is a nasty little redcap until, say, two months after hitting shore. Fey colonists, if you will.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-22, 09:43 PM
Depends on what one considers fey. Hags and Trolls and the like might be fine leaving there hills and huts for greener pastures, but from my knowlege things like fairies are tied to certaint places, like individual caves or spots in the woods, and nature spirit-ish things would probably either be dead or very much in hiding after the whole "burn anything magical" fiasco that was most of recent history. Of course, if a bunch of humans start leaving, the local goblins./little people and such might sneak onboard a ship or two, or at least swap a few of there babies for giggles. Changelings/Fey of the new world, perhapes? It might be hard to tell if your baby is a nasty little redcap until, say, two months after hitting shore. Fey colonists, if you will.

Sounds plausible. However, it's rare enough, and there's plenty of material elsewhere, that I think I don't have to go into too much detail. If a DM wants to add mythical beings from europe to the campaigns, beyond the limited list we're gonna do, there's plenty of material they could draw from to make it happen.

SamBurke
2013-01-22, 10:24 PM
Sounds plausible. However, it's rare enough, and there's plenty of material elsewhere, that I think I don't have to go into too much detail. If a DM wants to add mythical beings from europe to the campaigns, beyond the limited list we're gonna do, there's plenty of material they could draw from to make it happen.

That seems like a good idea: make it a campaign world by segments. You can add this expansion with these NPCs if you want. But if it messes with your headcanon, just don't.

I wish more settings did that...

Domriso
2013-01-22, 11:31 PM
I was going to add the possibility of bringing over magical creatures from Europe, but it seems I was beaten to it!

Still, I love this idea, and the setting is just fantastic. The possibilities are... amazing.

Not sure what I can add myself, other than a personal story with the Little People. There's a local Native American reservation not too far from my house, and my father works near it. He has a coworker whose eight-year old son started to talk about the "little people" who lived in the forest behind their house. The kid said the little people would bring him presents and try to get him to follow them into the forest. My dad's coworker was unnerved, but had never been really into his own heritage. However, feeling out of his element, he sought out the local tribe leader who told him to keep his child as far from the forest as possible, and he personally carried out a ritual to ward their house (or trailer; I can't remember). In any case, the little people never visited the kid again, but it freaked his parents out for years afterward.

I will be watching this closely. I'm sure I'll be able to add something useful eventually.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-01-23, 08:23 AM
It would be interesting if the colonists for america were refugees from the holocost/purge of magical creatures in europe. It could explain how werewolves and vampires came over if they came in ships fully dedicated to their kind. What if Colombus was some sort of creature? :smalleek:

Admiral Squish
2013-01-23, 10:11 AM
That seems like a good idea: make it a campaign world by segments. You can add this expansion with these NPCs if you want. But if it messes with your headcanon, just don't.

I wish more settings did that...

Saves me a lot of work, certainly.


I was going to add the possibility of bringing over magical creatures from Europe, but it seems I was beaten to it!

Still, I love this idea, and the setting is just fantastic. The possibilities are... amazing.

Not sure what I can add myself, other than a personal story with the Little People. There's a local Native American reservation not too far from my house, and my father works near it. He has a coworker whose eight-year old son started to talk about the "little people" who lived in the forest behind their house. The kid said the little people would bring him presents and try to get him to follow them into the forest. My dad's coworker was unnerved, but had never been really into his own heritage. However, feeling out of his element, he sought out the local tribe leader who told him to keep his child as far from the forest as possible, and he personally carried out a ritual to ward their house (or trailer; I can't remember). In any case, the little people never visited the kid again, but it freaked his parents out for years afterward.

I will be watching this closely. I'm sure I'll be able to add something useful eventually.

Thanks for the kind words! They certainly help to keep me going.

As for your tale, that's awesome! Kinda creepy. But good to know that wikipedia's not just making stuff up.


It would be interesting if the colonists for america were refugees from the holocost/purge of magical creatures in europe. It could explain how werewolves and vampires came over if they came in ships fully dedicated to their kind. What if Colombus was some sort of creature? :smalleek:

Some of them are, but the majority of them would have been normal people, who head over to the new world for all the usual reasons.

As for werewolves/vampires in dedicated ships. Vampires wouldn't work, because they couldn't come out on deck during the day, and you can't just leave a ship drifting for 12 hours a day. Plus, the vampires would need to feed. Even if they brought handful of servants apeice, they'd drink them dry in the four weeks of the journey, and they'd probably be too weak to run the shop well. Werewolves are usually depicted as solitary, but a pack of weres could possibly get a ship of their own. However, if the full moon came about in the middle of the journey, it's likely that many of them would end up injuring each other, or severely damaging the ship when they changed.

One thing I would like to avoid is the idea that every famous, powerful person in the world is some sort of magical creature.
...Though I think I will need to make an NPC of 18-year-old Washington.

SamBurke
2013-01-23, 11:12 AM
...Though I think I will need to make an NPC of 18-year-old Washington.

I'm going to leave this spoiler here.


http://supportyourlocalgunfighter.com/wp-content/uploads/George-Washington-Zombie-Killer.jpg

Admiral Squish
2013-01-23, 02:43 PM
That is quite the picture. Did you know at one point one of the Indian chiefs who surrendered to Washington referred to him as 'the man who could not die in battle'?

Okay, I think we have enough material and detail to move into a bigger, nicer thread, with a lot more detail, room to expand, posts about each of the various cultures inhabiting the American continent, and such. The one thing I still need before I can really start making such a thread is a setting name of suitable awesome.

Brainstorm:
Nations of North America
Three Empires, Two Tribes
Reflections of the New World
Vespuccia
Clash of American Empires
Mirrors of Liberty

Pokonic
2013-01-23, 03:48 PM
That is quite the picture. Did you know at one point one of the Indian chiefs who surrendered to Washington referred to him as 'the man who could not die in battle'?

Okay, I think we have enough material and detail to move into a bigger, nicer thread, with a lot more detail, room to expand, posts about each of the various cultures inhabiting the American continent, and such. The one thing I still need before I can really start making such a thread is a setting name of suitable awesome.

Brainstorm:
Nations of North America
Three Empires, Two Tribes
Reflections of the New World
Vespuccia
Clash of American Empires
Mirrors of Liberty

I have a suggestion:

A New, Magical World.

Morph Bark
2013-01-23, 04:00 PM
I would avoid anything referring to America, since it is alternative history; plus, names from the Chinese and the natives would more likely fit.

Admittably though, I did like "Vespuccia", even though it's very much counter to that instinct. :smalltongue:

Considering Zheng He (right?) was allegedly the one to possibly have discovered America in 1421, perhaps do something with that name? Could work for a city, too.

Anyway, for a catchy thread name for the setting, how about The Native Empires vs The World or something like that. Something emphasizing it's about the/a new world would do fine as well.

RPGuru1331
2013-01-23, 09:44 PM
Yeah, if this were an alternate history where the Americas' native inhabitants are ascendant, they'd almost certainly have named the continent well before European-analogue arrival (and did in real life too, but couldn't make a particular name stick)

After looking into it further, because on consideration it didn't seem legit, your initial instincts for the Tuniitaq are probably about right, because the myths of peaceful trade for what became French Canada were oversold to me. I mean, I'd point out that what you seem to have from them is from the perspective of their rivals, so it is somewhat suspect - it's unlikely they were particularly unintelligent, for instance. There'd probably be some limited trade initially, but things would decline with French-analogue expansion.

zzuxon
2013-01-23, 10:22 PM
I really, really like this idea.
I recommend that you make Sasquatches a PC race, considering the location, and heavy use of folklore from indians and Aztecs, and even chinese people.
Would you use Psionics in this game?

Admiral Squish
2013-01-23, 11:57 PM
I would avoid anything referring to America, since it is alternative history; plus, names from the Chinese and the natives would more likely fit.

Admittably though, I did like "Vespuccia", even though it's very much counter to that instinct. :smalltongue:

Considering Zheng He (right?) was allegedly the one to possibly have discovered America in 1421, perhaps do something with that name? Could work for a city, too.

Anyway, for a catchy thread name for the setting, how about The Native Empires vs The World or something like that. Something emphasizing it's about the/a new world would do fine as well.

Well, they all have their own names for the land, as indicated in the title of THIS thread. If I go with a reference to america, it's partially to draw the eyes of those browsing through the titles of the threads in these forums. Marketing.

Vespuccia just sounds like a proper counrty name, doesn't it? Not quite what I'm looking for, but it's a good fallback.

I could do something with Zheng He, but I'd have to learn about how the chinese name new areas and possibly how to say a few synonyms for 'land'.

Hmm... I like the name, but I'm still not quite sold. I want something that would strongly indicate the new world. Maybe I could just put [Alt-America] in the title after the title.


Yeah, if this were an alternate history where the Americas' native inhabitants are ascendant, they'd almost certainly have named the continent well before European-analogue arrival (and did in real life too, but couldn't make a particular name stick)

After looking into it further, because on consideration it didn't seem legit, your initial instincts for the Tuniitaq are probably about right, because the myths of peaceful trade for what became French Canada were oversold to me. I mean, I'd point out that what you seem to have from them is from the perspective of their rivals, so it is somewhat suspect - it's unlikely they were particularly unintelligent, for instance. There'd probably be some limited trade initially, but things would decline with French-analogue expansion.

Well, they did, but the british didn't care when they showed up, why would they care in this timeline? In this timeline, the natives are certainly less easy to overtake and dislodge, but that doesn't mean the europeans are going to respect their name any more.

I'll have to look into it, really. I was focusing more on learning the details of the other cultures I don't know anything about, but I suppose I should address it before we upgrade the thread.


I really, really like this idea.
I recommend that you make Sasquatches a PC race, considering the location, and heavy use of folklore from indians and Aztecs, and even chinese people.
Would you use Psionics in this game?

I dunno. The sasquatch are purported to live up in the washington area, which is just about where the chinese fleet was supposed to have landed. The tuniit are going to be playable northern giants, which would probably feel pretty similar to what the sasquatch would be like.

I'm not sure about psionics, really.

Wyntonian
2013-01-24, 12:00 AM
I'm not sure about psionics, really.

If you avoid having crystals everywhere, and just have a Aztlan priest get REALLY MAD (euphoric surge) sometimes and make someone's head explode, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Pokonic
2013-01-24, 12:27 AM
I'm not sure about psionics, really.

Probably a no-no. There's just no where for it to fit, and anything it would replace is better represented by something else.

SuperDave
2013-01-24, 08:41 AM
Wow, bro. I gotta say, I am genuinely astounded at how awesome this campaign setting is. I'm super excited that it's even being taken seriously, let alone that it actually might be playable. If you ever want to run a real campaign for the setting, you've already got one volunteer!

Now, I hate to be the one to bring this up, since I know you've already got a lot on your plate with this, but the destiny of North America is inextricable from the destiny of its sister-continent, South America. And there is a major question about that continent that (somewhat surprisingly) hasn't been brought up: Did Francisco Pizarro and his conquistadors meet with success or failure against the Inca and the Amazonian tribes? Did Portugal and/or Spain establish any permanent settlements in South America, or were they repulsed outright?

The presence of Spanish/Portuguese colonies in the New World wouldn't necessarily change things for the North America setting that you're concentrating on, but who Aztlan is fighting on their southern borders would definitely change a thing or two. If Spain/Portugal had to fight against both Incas and the Aztecs, maybe they would've just packed it in and gone after some nice African colonies instead. (Then again, I'm not really familiar with how easy or difficult the conquest of the Incas was for Pizarro.)

Anyway, I just thought that it would be good to establish what the setting looks like south of the Caribbean.

Edit: Also, I'm not really clear what's going on in the middle part of the map. Are the Plains Indians getting squashed together by invaders from all sides, and it's just a big refugee free-for-all, or are they forming something like an Great Plains version of the Iroquois Confederacy?

Also, where are the Great Lakes? They're the largest freshwater bodies on Earth! How could you forget them?

SuperDave
2013-01-24, 08:42 AM
I'm going to leave this spoiler here.


http://supportyourlocalgunfighter.com/wp-content/uploads/George-Washington-Zombie-Killer.jpg


That is seriously the best thing I've seen all day. You've set the bar pretty high, SamBurke. Kudos!

RPGuru1331
2013-01-24, 09:09 AM
Well, they did, but the british didn't care when they showed up, why would they care in this timeline? In this timeline, the natives are certainly less easy to overtake and dislodge, but that doesn't mean the europeans are going to respect their name any more.
Are the europeans not going to be beaten senseless on attempting to colonize them? Because that would be a good reason to care! It'd still get distorted in the process though.

SuperDave
2013-01-24, 09:10 AM
It may be a little early for this, but what about NPCs? You mentioned that you don't want every historical person to be secretly magical, and I agree wholeheartedly. But what about folklore heroes?

I'll admit I don't know much about Aztec or Native American folklore (though Longfellow's The Song of Hiawatha (http://www.hwlongfellow.org/poems_poem.php?pid=62) is a good place to look for inspiration), but I do remember a few of the tall tales I learned in grade-school.

Candidates for NPC-dom I'd like to propose include Mike Fink (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5581029/ns/news-the_mighty_miss/t/mike-fink-american-anti-hero/#.UQE_ER071CM), Paul Bunyan (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/paul-bunyan/) (and possibly Babe the Blue Ox (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/07/babe_the_blue_ox.html)), Johnny Appleseed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed) (maybe), Bigfoot Wallace (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/07/bigfoot_wallace_and_the_hickor.html), Pecos Bill/Pecos Pete (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/pecos-bill/), John Henry (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/07/john_henry.html), Jumbo Reilly (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2009/05/jumbo_reilly.html), Brer Rabbit (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/brer-rabbit/), and Captain Alfred Bulltop Stormalong (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/08/old_stormalong_and_the_octopus.html).

What about semi-legendary historical persons like Dan'l Webster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_and_Daniel_Webster), Davy Crockett (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2011/06/davy_crockett_and_the_coonskin.html), and Daniel Boone (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/08/daniel_boones_dear.html)?

...and if you've going to have a Chinese region, you've got to include at least a few of the Eight Immortals (http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/chin/bashian/bs0Intro.html)!

Admiral Squish
2013-01-24, 10:52 AM
If you avoid having crystals everywhere, and just have a Aztlan priest get REALLY MAD (euphoric surge) sometimes and make someone's head explode, I don't see anything wrong with it.

I could possibly see something like that. But I can't find any notable groups that focused on mental discipline and mental self-exploration. So, any psionic power that showed up in our setting would likely be wilders. Maybe some tibetan psions could have hitched a ride to Fusang, but psionic power would be EXTREMELY rare.


Wow, bro. I gotta say, I am genuinely astounded at how awesome this campaign setting is. I'm super excited that it's even being taken seriously, let alone that it actually might be playable. If you ever want to run a real campaign for the setting, you've already got one volunteer!

Now, I hate to be the one to bring this up, since I know you've already got a lot on your plate with this, but the destiny of North America is inextricable from the destiny of its sister-continent, South America. And there is a major question about that continent that (somewhat surprisingly) hasn't been brought up: Did Francisco Pizarro and his conquistadors meet with success or failure against the Inca and the Amazonian tribes? Did Portugal and/or Spain establish any permanent settlements in South America, or were they repulsed outright?

The presence of Spanish/Portuguese colonies in the New World wouldn't necessarily change things for the North America setting that you're concentrating on, but who Aztlan is fighting on their southern borders would definitely change a thing or two. If Spain/Portugal had to fight against both Incas and the Aztecs, maybe they would've just packed it in and gone after some nice African colonies instead. (Then again, I'm not really familiar with how easy or difficult the conquest of the Incas was for Pizarro.)

Anyway, I just thought that it would be good to establish what the setting looks like south of the Caribbean.

Edit: Also, I'm not really clear what's going on in the middle part of the map. Are the Plains Indians getting squashed together by invaders from all sides, and it's just a big refugee free-for-all, or are they forming something like an Great Plains version of the Iroquois Confederacy?

Also, where are the Great Lakes? They're the largest freshwater bodies on Earth! How could you forget them?

Well, I already KNEW you liked the idea. I will admit, I was a bit surprised at how swiftly this whole thing took off, though!

I was actually just thinking about the fate of south america, but I hadn't brought it up yet 'cause I was trying to keep the focus on the subject of naming. I'm not entirely certain, honestly. In inca are not as warlike as the aztec. Their fighting force was strong largely because they had a highly effective system of arming and mobilizing massive numbers of often-reluctant conscripts. On the other hand, the spaniards sailed south to the incan lands from panama, an area they would not have controlled in this timeline. But then AGAIN, the incans had a LOT of gold. If the spaniards were made aware of this, that kind of lure would quite possibly have driven them to send much larger forces, were the first ones rebuffed. I'm gonna have to really dig in and look into incan and amazonian culture, it seems. (There's 200 distinct amazonian tribes. This will be a bit of a challenge.)

As for what's happening in the middle of the map. In my head, what we're looking at is the natives being pushed back by the sudden expansion of empires on all sides. Initially, it's one-sided, the natives falling back or being absorbed. But at about this point is where the natives start to push back. It' not a nation in the sense of most of these other empires, with designated borders and universal law, but the natives are being increasingly aggressive. It's generally seen as extremely dangerous to try to move through or into native lands. There's no border patrol, but they'll attack you if they catch you in their land.

I certainly didn't forget them. It's just, the only blank map I found didn't have them marked on it. You can still see Erie there.


Are the europeans not going to be beaten senseless on attempting to colonize them? Because that would be a good reason to care! It'd still get distorted in the process though.

Not initially. The first british colonizations go as they do in our world, the natives being swiftly pushed back and generally trampled underfoot in the rush to inhabit the new world. It's just that, as the colonies expand, they're having a harder and harder time of it.


It may be a little early for this, but what about NPCs? You mentioned that you don't want every historical person to be secretly magical, and I agree wholeheartedly. But what about folklore heroes?

I'll admit I don't know much about Aztec or Native American folklore (though Longfellow's The Song of Hiawatha (http://www.hwlongfellow.org/poems_poem.php?pid=62) is a good place to look for inspiration), but I do remember a few of the tall tales I learned in grade-school.

Candidates for NPC-dom I'd like to propose include Mike Fink (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5581029/ns/news-the_mighty_miss/t/mike-fink-american-anti-hero/#.UQE_ER071CM), Paul Bunyan (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/paul-bunyan/) (and possibly Babe the Blue Ox (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/07/babe_the_blue_ox.html)), Johnny Appleseed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed) (maybe), Bigfoot Wallace (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/07/bigfoot_wallace_and_the_hickor.html), Pecos Bill/Pecos Pete (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/pecos-bill/), John Henry (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/07/john_henry.html), Jumbo Reilly (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2009/05/jumbo_reilly.html), Brer Rabbit (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/brer-rabbit/), and Captain Alfred Bulltop Stormalong (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/08/old_stormalong_and_the_octopus.html).

What about semi-legendary historical persons like Dan'l Webster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_and_Daniel_Webster), Davy Crockett (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2011/06/davy_crockett_and_the_coonskin.html), and Daniel Boone (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/08/daniel_boones_dear.html)?

...and if you've going to have a Chinese region, you've got to include at least a few of the Eight Immortals (http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/chin/bashian/bs0Intro.html)!

I could see folklore heroes, but many of the ones you mention arose during the wild west era, not the colonial times. Paul Bunyan didn't make it to paper until 1900, another hundred and fifty years away. If any of them arose in time for this setting, I'd be sure to include them.

As for the eight immortals, it seems they're heavily tied into Confucianism, which the Qing tried to push out from the mainland. It's certainly possible some of the immortals would have left for Fusang, but then, given how powerful many of the are, I suspect they'd do quite well avoiding or infuriating the Qing forces trying to eliminate them.

Astral Avenger
2013-01-24, 12:04 PM
Johnny Appleseed has a lot of information on him, although, he was post revolutionary war.
Article 1 (http://cleveland.about.com/od/peopleandpets/p/johnnyappleseed.htm)
Article 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed) More Comprehensive (wikipedia)

Can't find an article on it in my 5min of looking, but in my AP Environmental science class a few years ago, our teacher claimed that he was in love with some 12-15 year old girl. Not saying he is a bad person, but he was a little creepy about some things.

Edit: If I have time I can try an stat him, but I have no experience statting NPCs, so if someone wants to, go for it, you aren't stepping on my toes.:smallsmile:

Swaoeaeieu
2013-01-24, 01:53 PM
As for werewolves/vampires in dedicated ships. Vampires wouldn't work, because they couldn't come out on deck during the day, and you can't just leave a ship drifting for 12 hours a day. Plus, the vampires would need to feed. Even if they brought handful of servants apeice, they'd drink them dry in the four weeks of the journey, and they'd probably be too weak to run the shop well. Werewolves are usually depicted as solitary, but a pack of weres could possibly get a ship of their own. However, if the full moon came about in the middle of the journey, it's likely that many of them would end up injuring each other, or severely damaging the ship when they changed.

Couldn't the vampires use their livestock/slaves to pilot the boat during the day?
Also, sea-faring werewolfs (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-09-07). not the standard werewolfs so it wont work, but for those interested ;)

Admiral Squish
2013-01-24, 02:29 PM
Johnny Appleseed has a lot of information on him, although, he was post revolutionary war.
Article 1 (http://cleveland.about.com/od/peopleandpets/p/johnnyappleseed.htm)
Article 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed) More Comprehensive (wikipedia)

Can't find an article on it in my 5min of looking, but in my AP Environmental science class a few years ago, our teacher claimed that he was in love with some 12-15 year old girl. Not saying he is a bad person, but he was a little creepy about some things.

Edit: If I have time I can try an stat him, but I have no experience statting NPCs, so if someone wants to, go for it, you aren't stepping on my toes.:smallsmile:

Yeah, but none of them were born in the appropriate timeframe for the 1750 setting. I dunno, maybe I should move the timeline up another 50 years?

On the plus side, the revolutionary war is just recently finished, the nation's still trying to figure out what it's doing. Being independent means they have to face down the other four nations on their own, no support from england. Makes things more interesting. There's a lot more folklore heroes that fit that timeframe.

On the negative side, that means denying players the chance to actively take part in the revolution and the instability leading up to it. Also means skipping over the french-indian war. Which means I would also have to determine how that whole thing played out.

What do you guys think? 1750 or 1800?


Couldn't the vampires use their livestock/slaves to pilot the boat during the day?
Also, sea-faring werewolfs (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-09-07). not the standard werewolfs so it wont work, but for those interested ;)

I mentioned that. Assuming that vampires drink a quart of blood a night, and must feed every night, a single vampire would drink about five minions completely dry over the course of the journey, and even if they were spaced out, these crewmen would be too weak and anemic to be effective seamen for the latter half. Even at 10:1, evenly spaced out, the minions would still be pretty weak by the end of it. Increase the proportions any further, and the picture looks a lot like a small group of vampires on a ship full of regular people.

That just calls into question what manner of were we're dealing with. Traditional werewolf that loses all control and turns into a feral beast? A cooler werewolf that lets you turn into it at will and have full control? A mix of the two, being that you can turn and have control most of the time, but instincts take over on the full moon?

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-01-24, 02:34 PM
What do you guys think? 1750 or 1800?

I like the idea of it being an even playing field, but maybe you could have it both ways? One with pre-heros and one post-heros?




I mentioned that. Assuming that vampires drink a quart of blood a night, and must feed every night, a single vampire would drink about five minions completely dry over the course of the journey, and even if they were spaced out, these crewmen would be too weak and anemic to be effective seamen for the latter half. Even at 10:1, evenly spaced out, the minions would still be pretty weak by the end of it. Increase the proportions any further, and the picture looks a lot like a small group of vampires on a ship full of regular people.

I suppose they could be shipped in supplies if they hibernated in coffins?

Morph Bark
2013-01-24, 02:41 PM
What do you guys think? 1750 or 1800?

And this is why my setting features artifact-enabled time travel.


At any rate, does it matter much? 1750-like might be more unique, as 1800 and beyond is still pretty common in (alt) fiction. You could make fictional heroes like the ones mentioned, but instead of British/American, they're Chinese, Aztec or Tuniit.

Astral Avenger
2013-01-24, 06:32 PM
I would vote for 1750s, the american folktales are played out to much for me, also, a lot of them are heavy on the deus ex machinma (sp?), so it kills my suspension of disbelief.

Alternate versions of the folk heroes would be cool, but I would rather see more original heroes for this than johnny appleseed/paul bunnon fluffed as aztec or great planes people.

Pokonic
2013-01-26, 03:59 PM
So, when is this getting it's own thread in Worldbuilding.:smalltongue:

Admiral Squish
2013-01-26, 06:27 PM
So, when is this getting it's own thread in Worldbuilding.:smalltongue:

As soon as we come up with a working title.

And I think I'm gonna stick with 1750, just because I've already put all this work into it.

Also, during my trip into the lands without internet, I did a few VERY rough drafts of various races, so there's progress on that front.

One other thing I'm sot sure I've yet mentioned is I was seriously considering making/remaking/modifying existing classes to better fit the setting.
As mentioned earlier, warlock is going to be remade into a less-evil version, essentially just a wild spellcaster. I'm thinking of more impressive modifications, as well. Like a paladin that functions more like a holy gish warlock, or a 'hunter' that combines aspects of ranger and scout.

Pokonic
2013-01-26, 06:36 PM
I think Barbaran could use a reworking, at the very least. Something that could be used by both wild fist-swinging Fusang mercinaries, Indian tribal champians, colonial survivalists, and Aztlan marshal priests equaly. Actualy, Totem's would be of extreme value in this sort of setting, which is interesting.

Also, in hindsight, I do like the sound of Vespuccia.

Admiral Squish
2013-01-26, 07:27 PM
It's on the list. This might be me taking on yet another project that's way too big for me to deal with, but if the popularity keeps up, I might be able to pull this off.

Vespuccia's shiny new thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269334)