Please help me pick a class.

[Con_Brio1993]

I am having a bit of trouble deciding on a character class. I am mostly looking to be a primary damage dealer (I like either rolling lots of damage dice, or getting insane multipliers), but would like to actually have some roll outside of battle. Preferably being a secondary party face, or party encyclopedia though having a bunch of odd skills would also be nice.

I was thinking of: Bard/Warblade, Warblade, or a melee focused Binder since I can bind Naberius for instant Diplomancy. I'm also considering a Duskblade for some spells, some nice damage, and the knowledge skills.

Bard/Warblade however might not work since our DM will not allow Dragonfire Inspiration. Perhaps some alternative options exist though.

The campaign can be expected to go to level 10 maximum, maybe level 8. I'm not sure if a Binder would be able to deal the numbers I'd want in that time since I'd only be able to bind a single vestige at any given time. And when I get to bind 2 vestiges the campaign would be nearly over probably.

So out of these options, which would you guys recommend? Alternatively you can bring up a class I haven't listed.

Oh the DM also tends to dislike excessive multiclassing. I'd prefer to only have to multiclass once if you are going to recommend something. Thank you very much.

[Gigas Breaker]

If you want to be a bardblade it isn't like inspire courage is terrible.

[Onerai]

I can certainly see your bind. Love duskblade myself, but it is primarily combat only I'm ready to admit.

Despite the mild cheese, a 2-class combo that struck me as fun when you mentioned being a knowledge-monkey was crusader and cloistered cleric. CC gives you lots of knowledge skills and the points to invest in them, and you can potentially swap its domains for their devotion feats. This blends well with the flavour of crusader, who is typically also a pious individual with some mechanically sound combat options.

For the build, a two-handed weapon of your choice plus stone dragon and devoted spirit manuvers for all the damage should do your basics. If you'd rather go aura-monkey, consider combo-ing iron guard's glare with the protection devotion feat. Just some ideas.

[WhatBigTeeth]

If we're strictly dealing with low levels, I'd lean Warblade. It's about as awesome as you're going to get in the level range, without having to deal with the low-level bard's per-day limitations or the level 4-7 binder's single mediocre bind.

[Con_Brio1993]

If you want to be a bardblade it isn't like inspire courage is terrible.

How does Bard 3/Warblade 5 compare to Warblade 8 in terms of damage and social skills?


If we're strictly dealing with low levels, I'd lean Warblade. It's about as awesome as you're going to get in the level range, without having to deal with the low-level bard's per-day limitations or the level 4-7 binder's single mediocre bind.

Sad thing is I love Binders a lot, but they just aren't that amazing at the lower levels.

[Vaz]

Snowflake War Dance. Sorted. Problem is, it is Cha focused, which MADs you even more. With a dip in Marshal you get free Cha bonus to attacking stat as well. You will be more mobile though, and faster than your typical Heavy Armoured War Blade.

[Onerai]

Bard would be certain to notably improve your social skills over pure warblade, even as a mere dip. I'd recommend making Bard your first level if that's what you want, simply for the extra skill points on a very broad class skill list.

In case you haven't spotted it already, the tome of battle feat "Song of the White Raven" is a strong option for Bards when combined with Warblade or Crusader. It not only lets you stack either of those classes with bard for improving Inspire Courage, but also lets you use said bardic music as a swift action rather than a standard - great for keeping up the damage yourself whilst buffing allies. Only restriction is that you've gotta be in a white raven stance to use it.

[Gigas Breaker]

A bardblade only needs a cha high enough to cast inspirational boost which would be at least 11. What is the rest of your party like? Will they be able to take advantage of inspire courage? Is there a summoner?

[LTwerewolf]

Sounds like you should try out the scout.

[Con_Brio1993]

A bardblade only needs a cha high enough to cast inspirational boost which would be at least 11. What is the rest of your party like? Will they be able to take advantage of inspire courage? Is there a summoner?

As said, it is unlikely we will get to level 11. Which is why I wouldn't want a build that takes until level 11 to get a key feature.

And the party is variable. We have people coming and going all the time, and they are generally open to suggestions as to what they should pick given the current composition at the time. That is why I was half considering a Binder, since I could potentially fill any role needed any given session.

Of course I want to primarily be damage dealer and psuedo-face.


Snowflake War Dance. Sorted. Problem is, it is Cha focused, which MADs you even more. With a dip in Marshal you get free Cha bonus to attacking stat as well. You will be more mobile though, and faster than your typical Heavy Armoured War Blade.

Hmm, it looks interesting. But the MAD is troublesome as Warblades already need Int/Str/Con...


Sounds like you should try out the scout.

I've never used it. Or really heard of it. The name doesn't seem to scream "good damage dealer!" though.

[Gigas Breaker]

As said, it is unlikely we will get to level 11. Which is why I wouldn't want a build that takes until level 11 to get a key feature.

And the party is variable. We have people coming and going all the time, and they are generally open to suggestions as to what they should pick given the current composition at the time. That is why I was half considering a Binder, since I could potentially fill any role needed any given session.

Of course I want to primarily be damage dealer and psuedo-face.



Hmm, it looks interesting. But the MAD is troublesome as Warblades already need Int/Str/Con...



I've never used it. Or really heard of it. The name doesn't seem to scream "good damage dealer!" though.

i didn't mean level 11. I meant cha 11 to cast inspirational boost. It is a first level spell and the only one a bardblade cares about.

[WhatBigTeeth]

If you're using Song of the White Raven to avoid throwing your first combat round away, even inspirational boost stops being relevant.

Even on a Bard/Warblade, I'd avoid Snowflake Wardance. It's an extra feat tax, it limits you to a crappy weapon setup, and it does no good for your daily stamina.

[LTwerewolf]

Scout, from cadv, can be a very good damage dealer. Especially if you find a way to turn your 5ft steps into 10 ft steps (a few options to do so). Then you can get a full attack along with skirmish dice on each attack. You can use skirmish with ranged or melee, so if you throw on pounce from some source, you can get a full melee attack with skirmish dice as well.

They are also decent skillmonkeys and make, surprise surprise, good scouts. At 8+int you'll have a good chunk of skill points even without a high int.

[Gigas Breaker]

But if he's not trying to get his IC up as high as he can with song of the heart and inspirational boost to power up the rest of the party then straight warblade is probably better for higher level maneuvers and BIG DAMAGE.

Maybe play a psionic race or human with hidden talent and take psionic weapon and deep impact. You can also expend psionic focus to take 15 on concentration.

[DMVerdandi]

Maybe, it would be better to use the Prestige bard, and gain it from maybe...

Warblade 3/Wizard 2/Prestige bard 5.
Pick up Able Learner, and Practiced spellcaster(Wizard)
And that is if you want warblade stuff.

If you don't particularly care, you could Go Stalwart Battle sorcerer 5/Prestige bard 5, and once again take Able Learner and Practiced spellcaster. In the second case, you get more spellcasting, And all the usual bard class features.

Later feats you should take are arcane strike and Power attack.

[Zetapup]

You could go for a warlock. They can make decent damage dealers as glaivelocks and are also pretty good faces due to stuff like beguiling influence. They're a little squishy, but if you only want damage dealing, you could just blast from a range and avoid melee.

[Con_Brio1993]

I think I may just go straight Warblade. That way I can get EWP for Spiked Chain so I can also trip while dealing some massive damage. Not sure if Bardblade allows for enough feats to go that route. Plus MAD. We roll for stats so if I get a good spread I may consider bardblade.

I take it the main thing of bardblade is: Bard 3/Warblade X.

Get: Song of the White Raven, some +IC boosting items, Song of the Heart, and Words of Creation? Since I'd be in the thick of battle would I even want Words of Creation, or do I have enough HP to make the subdual damage inconsequential?

[WhatBigTeeth]

The bigger downsides of WoC are the ability requirements, the alignment thing and unending arguments about how seriously the example progression should be taken when determining order of operations.

Disregarding WoC, with Song of the Heart, Badge of Valor, the +1 level masterwork instrument and Vest of Legends, a Bard 4/Warblade 4 (probably a better arrangement, since it starts Warblade with level 2 maneuvers and a couple level 2 spells like alter self and invisibility) grants everybody in the party +5 attack and damage with a swift action and an immediate action, or +6 attack and damage with a swift, immediate and standard action when using inspirational boost.

Whether that makes up for being one maneuver level and one point of BA behind depends pretty heavily on your group composition, but if the party has another one or two characters like power attackers, ray users or rogues, with low attack bonuses but with nasty effects on hits, it still be a pretty nice setup, even without WoC.

[Con_Brio1993]

I think it will ultimately come down to what stats I roll. Your post was pretty convincing for the Bardblade. I'd just have to have the stat rolls to support it.

As for being 1 BA behind, I hardly see that as a downside when I get +5/6 to hit. The loss of a maneuver might be a bigger deal.