What if... I

[8wGremlin]

The game of "what if..." but with changing some base aspect of the game, and how this might affect the various elements of dnd

this could be a series of posts, each with a different proposition.

the first one is this

What if
All spells are available to all casters, they are neither arcane or divine, except by your own class.

so a Wizard could learn "cure light wounds" as an arcane spell
a Cleric could learn "Magic Missile" as a divine spell

a spells lowest level version is the one available.

how would this affect dnd

[Seer_of_Heart]

Archivists just got a lot weaker and clerics/Druids a lot stronger. That's assuming they now have a spell list of every spell though.

[Elycium]

Well, if something like that could happen, then I think that everyone would go as a Wizard, and no one would pick the others, because they simply won’t be needed. You would see a bunch of Wizards and no clerics xD


What if...:

What if there is no level adjustment for monster characters? How you think that this would affects the game?

I think the answer is pretty obvious, but I do like to see what you people think.

[GnomeGninjas]

Dread necromancers and warmages win at everything.



Well, if something like that could happen, then I think that everyone would go as a Wizard, and no one would pick the others, because they simply won’t be needed. You would see a bunch of Wizards and no clerics xD
Druids would beat wizards because they have class features and clerics would also beat wizards because they have higher base attack. There would be no wizards (except for very specific builds).

[mregecko]

Warmage to Incantatrix would win the world, basically. Even more than it does now.

[HunterOfJello]

There would be some interesting changes. Some classes get spells early than others depending on the type of spell, so each class would begin to get some of the spells they already had early than normal.

The same is true of material components. Some spells are available to multiple classes, but have different material components depending on which class is casting it. The best example of this would be Scrying. Wizards need to use a 1000gp item as a focus to use the spell, Clerics require a 100gp focus item, and Druids need a pool of natural water. Wizards who were previously going around using extremely expensive mirrors to scry with can now just go outside a use a freaking puddle. (It's also worth noting that wizards and druids both have Scrying as a 4th level spell even before this Houserule.)

Archivists wouldn't really be worth playing anymore because their advantage of a larger spell list would be overruled by the fact that you could play a cleric or druid and be able to cast all the same spells without having to mess around with a prayerbook and the scrolls necessary to fill it up. This also applies to wizards, but I think they are less noteworthy for it than clerics and druids.

Divine casters would gain quite a few benefits where Arcane Material Components are listed. Since their spells are divine, they get to skip over all of these. Most arcane material components are extremely inexpensive, but there are a few that aren't and even when they are inexpensive it makes the caster rely on keeping a Spell Component Pouch. If you have a crafty DM and he sets you up against a Magekiller type character, sundering your spell component pouch can put you up a creek. (The most common noteworthy arcane material component is the 100gp pearl needed to cast Identify. Clerics with the Magic domain get to skip this cost, but then again so does anyone with an Artificer's Monocle.)


~

If this setup was put in place, I would only ever play a Cleric or Druid. The difference in choice between the last two would be up to an individual's preferences in alignments, sticking to alignments, and the class features of druid vs. whatever your favorite cleric PrC is.

~

NOTE:
I think you should revise your suggestion to exclude spontaneous casters. Otherwise we're really just talking about how awesome it would be to play a Rainbow Warsnake.

[Elycium]

Dread necromancers and warmages win at everything.



Druids would beat wizards because they have class features and clerics would also beat wizards because they have higher base attack. There would be no wizards (except for very specific builds).



You know, those are good points xD

[Urpriest]

What if...:

What if there is no level adjustment for monster characters? How you think that this would affects the game?

I think the answer is pretty obvious, but I do like to see what you people think.

A few monsters would suddenly be completely balanced, lots of others would be stupendously overpowered, and a few more still wouldn't be worth it.

Nobody would ever be a Necropolitan, instead they would all be Vampires.

[Acanous]

What if Spellcasting came not from advancing in a character class, but from taking a feat tree? (One feat per spell level, with requisites being the feats for previous spell levels, and a casting stat of X+)?

[LTwerewolf]

What if...:

What if there is no level adjustment for monster characters? How you think that this would affects the game?

I think the answer is pretty obvious, but I do like to see what you people think.

Everyone would be half-dragon, because hey free things.

[Elycium]

A few monsters would suddenly be completely balanced, lots of others would be stupendously overpowered, and a few more still wouldn't be worth it.

Nobody would ever be a Necropolitan, instead they would all be Vampires.

I don’t know why, but when I saw "stupendously overpowered", I just tough of someone playing a Hecatonquiros or a Force Dragon... It would be quite boring tough, because there won’t be a real challenge to things like that xD

[navar100]

What if Spellcasting came not from advancing in a character class, but from taking a feat tree? (One feat per spell level, with requisites being the feats for previous spell levels, and a casting stat of X+)?

Everyone would be a gish. Most everyone would be human for the feat. You'll have the occasional player who just wants to hit things with pointy sticks, but he's not the norm.

What if everyone got a feat every level? Aside from Fighters going bye-bye, what else?

[Tr011]

For the opening question: Arcane casters (since they have less class features) would be inferior to divine casters and mundanes would not be playable anymore.

@Navar: All feat-intensive builds would get better. So all casters would go metamagic and mundanes would take classes with class features instead of dipping into everything that grants feats.

What if all spells, items and classes from Core would be banned?
How would this affect the game and the balance?

[Acanous]

I don’t know why, but when I saw "stupendously overpowered", I just tough of someone playing a Hecatonquiros or a Force Dragon... It would be quite boring tough, because there won’t be a real challenge to things like that xD

There's actually already rules for this, in (IIRC) the Player's Guide to Faerun. You take a -1 to all attack rolls, saving throws, skill and ability checks for every point of ECL adjustment and every bonus hit die.

You still end up as a lv 1 force dragon.

[Acanous]

Everyone would be a gish. Most everyone would be human for the feat. You'll have the occasional player who just wants to hit things with pointy sticks, but he's not the norm.

What if everyone got a feat every level? Aside from Fighters going bye-bye, what else?

Actually, the Rogue from Pathfinder gets a feat every level. It has to be a Combat feat, until lv 8, when you can take any feat.
Pathfinder Fighters ALSO get a feat every level. So that's two classes. Nobody really plays either, so I am going out on a limb here and saying the game wouldn't actually change much.

[Elycium]

There's actually already rules for this, in (IIRC) the Player's Guide to Faerun. You take a -1 to all attack rolls, saving throws, skill and ability checks for every point of ECL adjustment and every bonus hit die.

You still end up as a lv 1 force dragon.

You know, you are tempting me of trying something...

[Venusaur]

What if all spells, items and classes from Core would be banned?
How would this affect the game and the balance?

Incarnum comes out on top, as they care less about magic items than other classes, especially Totemists because they usually don't need weapons. Tome of Battle is fine minus not having greatswords or any common weapons, and are forced to hit up unusual sources. Binders are probably fine. Non-core spell casters are hurting, because core+ whatever book they were published in gives most of there spells.

[Urpriest]

I don’t know why, but when I saw "stupendously overpowered", I just tough of someone playing a Hecatonquiros or a Force Dragon... It would be quite boring tough, because there won’t be a real challenge to things like that xD

See, you still have hit dice, though. So Hecatonchieres and Force Dragons aren't actually that great, since at that level you can be trounced by casters.

Broken would be things like a Vampire with no real drawbacks, or everyone being Phrenic+Half-Fey+Half-Fiend+...

[Acanous]

^This.
It's less the monster races, and more the templates that would unbalance things.

[Tr011]

^This.
It's less the monster races, and more the templates that would unbalance things.

You would not want anybody to play a choker.
Just a simple example.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Similar to the LA question,

What if all LA were converted to HD of the appropriate type? For example, a Vampire wouldn't have a +7/8 (I forget exactly, but it's something like that) LA, it would have +7/8 empty Undead HD.

[Elycium]

See, you still have hit dice, though. So Hecatonchieres and Force Dragons aren't actually that great, since at that level you can be trounced by casters.

Broken would be things like a Vampire with no real drawbacks, or everyone being Phrenic+Half-Fey+Half-Fiend+...

Well, tell me if I am wrong but, the Force Dragon can be called some kind of Sorcerer isn´t (I mean, he can naturally cast spells, and I am not talking just about the spell-like abilities)? And even more in the hands of a player that will pretty much put it inside a class or even multiclass (the epic dragons have a lot of time to spare xD ).

[Fable Wright]

For the opening question: Arcane casters (since they have less class features) would be inferior to divine casters and mundanes would not be playable anymore.

@Navar: All feat-intensive builds would get better. So all casters would go metamagic and mundanes would take classes with class features instead of dipping into everything that grants feats.

What if all spells, items and classes from Core would be banned?
How would this affect the game and the balance?
You get gimped casters that have a set list (Duskblade, Beguiler, Warmage, and so on) and as a result a lower magic setting. Crucial things such as +1 weapons and Cloaks of Resistance no longer exist. Items in other sourcebooks that require Core spells to create suddenly disappear, meaning that you also chopped out most of the items that exist.

Of course, if you just removed all of the PHB spells from the Sorcerer, Wizard, Cleric, and Druid lists, you get a fairly balanced game overall that's relatively low magic. Psionic casters, Wu Jens, Archivists (if they can find copies of the banned cleric/druid spells) and Artificers (since they can replicate the spells removed from the Sorcerer/Wizard lists) still dominate the setting when they want to, though.

[Seer_of_Heart]

Everyone would be a gish. Most everyone would be human for the feat. You'll have the occasional player who just wants to hit things with pointy sticks, but he's not the norm.

What if everyone got a feat every level? Aside from Fighters going bye-bye, what else?

You mean elf, with the chaos shuffle you get 3 more feats for free.