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yougi
2013-01-22, 12:03 AM
I must admit I'm currently slightly frustrated. I've been playing a character for the past year and a half, with a plot hook-filled background, and have never seen it be put into the game. Now, my character owns one of the most well-known inns of the kingdom, and has recently been made a baron, and I've decided that this would be enough to go back to his family and (1) boast, and show his father he wasn't a complete failure (his father, an adventuring fighter, has never liked the wizard's tools), and (2) invite them into his barony, where they could probably live a better life. And I've informed my DM of my intentions ahead of time, so he'd be prepared at the table. My DM informed me that from the inn, I've heard rumors: my father's long dead from an adventure gone wrong, with not a chance to find the body to offer him respectable burial, and my siblings (who I set up as young mercenaries) have become nobodies after the father's death, the brother becoming a militia man, and the sister a cleaning lady. Plot hooks all reduced to smithereens.

Now, as a DM myself, I attempt to make every character's background come up at some point during a game, as long as they survive 3 straight sessions (honestly, it eliminated quite a few). Sometimes I don't do it fast enough, and the character dies beforehand, and sometimes the players don't quite pick up on the hints ("Oh, CHARACTER'SNAME, you so look like your father. It's a shame he died without knowing of your talent." - So, I rolled a 17 for Initiative, what about you guys?), but those who want to unravel the character's background have the loose strings to pull on.

Which brings me to the question: When you write a backstory to a character, do you expect your DM to use it in the story, and if so, to what extent? Also, corollary to that is: As a DM, to what extent do you use your players' backstories in your game?

crazyhedgewizrd
2013-01-22, 12:35 AM
When i write a background for my character i just keep it simple like how i got my first level, basic relationships and where i'm from. Other than that my gm doesn't need to know more.

When i read someone background i don't want to know about adventures the character has had and his fame, and by content it sounds like the character is about level 6 and the game has just started and he is level 1. I also tell my players to keep the backgrounds simple so before we start i can tie some of the backgrounds together, like i may make it that two players had the same father but had different mother, to 1 the father was a no good person who kept running off to have adventures and the other the father was always around and a successful business man and went out of town to buy some supplies.

Chilingsworth
2013-01-22, 12:44 AM
Generally speaking, I expect my dm to make use of my backstories proportionally to how insistant they were that said backstories be writen. So, if a dm demands a detailed backstory, he @#$! well better use it once I've given it to him. If on the other hand, he's willing to accept one, but doesn't specifically request it, then I'd like him to use it if he can, but wont hold it against him if he doesn't.

Of course, if he were to specifically request I not give him a backstory, I wouldn't give him one, making the point moot.

Zelphas
2013-01-22, 12:46 AM
I haven't DMed a large amount of games yet, but I like the idea of using the character's backstory. The more they give me, the more I can bring up later, and the more invested they are in the story, I think. Regarding your DM destroying your plot hooks: that just seems a bit cruel to me. I can understand wanting to stick to the main story line, but side quests can still be loads of fun.

Felandria
2013-01-22, 01:05 AM
I, not to boast, tend to come up with pretty good backstories.

It's a blessing and a curse, since DM's tend to love to use my backstories to flesh out the story they're telling, but it also gives them ample opportunity to use it against me.

Sometimes a rich, complex backstory can doom you.

LibraryOgre
2013-01-22, 01:19 AM
Backgrounds do two things:

1) They establish who your character is. They let you start playing in character right from the beginning.

2) They give the DM hooks that he may or may not pick up on.

Generally, a DM should pick up on no more than 1 or 2 hooks per character. This is to keep the character from becoming the star of the show... he can probably pick 2 threads from each person and keep a story going. After that, the stories you tell should generate future hooks.

Erik Vale
2013-01-22, 02:28 AM
Depends.

If the DM asks us to write a large or decent back story, I expect him to use it, cause Dammit I spent time writing the [swearworder]. If not, I will either write something small with few hooks or something massive [should the move strike me] which may scare the dm into not looking at it for hooks.

However, I normally play heroes [well, not really now] where you have disadvantages, so if their not used you have essentially got free points, so our DM used them.

I haven't DM'd myself, however if someone gives me a [Decent...] backstory, it will affect the game.

Draconi Redfir
2013-01-22, 02:44 AM
as a writer i tend to write long backstories, even for simple characters like a barbarain who is so dumb he needs to be told what to do and just kinda derps around without guidance. It's always nice to see thing brought into the game proper, but generally i won't complain if they don't include anything from it, though i might be a little dissapointed.

Kol Korran
2013-01-22, 02:53 AM
Backgrounds do two things:

1) They establish who your character is. They let you start playing in character right from the beginning.

2) They give the DM hooks that he may or may not pick up on.


This is quite true. For our group it depends on the campaign. Most of our campaigns had a sort of major plot going round, so some tried to fit their backstory into it, but it wasn't that required. we much more prefer to focus on personality than backstory, and let the character evolve, grow, and use hooks from the adventuring s/he has.

We just tried a more sandboxish game, in which back stories were more important, but still- not to a great degree. But to answer your questions more directly:
1) As a player I use backstories mostly to flesh out a character more, to give me and the DM a better idea of who s/he is. I often include a few potential hooks, but I rarely require the DM to use them. He often has enough to deal with, and one character's side story might really bore the others. I do tend to try and drive what interests me myself.

2) As a DM i try to go with the player's expectations: If they provide me little to no back story, I try to not push the player- things will arise from the game. If however the player invested in the background, I will try and find ways and interactions for them to pursue.

scurv
2013-01-22, 05:48 AM
Some DM's will ask everyone for a backstory, Just to keep one player from using illogical power builds.

My self, I do require a few sentences of a backstory. Nothing huge but I do require one. Now the more you give me. The more there is to play with...

yougi
2013-01-22, 07:02 AM
Generally speaking, I expect my dm to make use of my backstories proportionally to how insistant they were that said backstories be written. So, if a dm demands a detailed backstory, he @#$! well better use it once I've given it to him. If on the other hand, he's willing to accept one, but doesn't specifically request it, then I'd like him to use it if he can, but wont hold it against him if he doesn't.

That's a good point. And do you also DM?


I, not to boast, tend to come up with pretty good backstories.

It's a blessing and a curse, since DM's tend to love to use my backstories to flesh out the story they're telling, but it also gives them ample opportunity to use it against me.

Sometimes a rich, complex backstory can doom you.

Well, it can sure doom your character, but your DM would have to be a whole new level of evil to destroy you per se. And it's so fun when the party learns the **** they're in is because of your PC. I keep on thinking about that SCS campaign where they go to the asylum where the warlock was institutionalized.

Mastikator
2013-01-22, 07:28 AM
I tend to write short, one-paragraph background stories unless the DM asks for more, if the DM does then I expect it to be relevant to the campaign setting and plot, I don't mind if the DM puts certain restrictions in, or work with me together on making the background story.

As a DM I use the players background to the full extent that they have backgrounds and I can get away with. If you're a kung-fu warrior then the bad guy killed your master, if you're a prince running away from your family then there are guards looking for you in every city and bandits will try to kidnap you for ransom.
Using their backstory (or previous campaign which I may or may not have been the DM to) is the best way to ensure that the players are interested in the story, if the players aren't interested then the players are unhappy, and when the players are unhappy I am unhappy, and when I'm unhappy Mr. Bigglesworth is unhappy, and when Mr. Bigglesworth is unhappy PEOPLE DIE!

GnomeGninjas
2013-01-22, 07:30 AM
My dm never uses character backstory so I just make simple ones that I flesh out if in-character banter is needed.

Golden Ladybug
2013-01-22, 10:27 AM
I don't expect my backstory to come up in most games, and I'm perfectly fine with that. I'll still write a backstory for my character, for both my own use and for the DM to get some understanding of what my character is and how I intend to play them. This backstory will be proportionately longer and more detailed the higher level the game starts at. For example, a perfectly servicable backstory for a 1st level Ranger can be written in a paragraph. For an 18th level Ranger/Pious Templar/Peerless Archer, I would feel obligated to write a fairly extensive backstory, detailing their past deeds and adventures, sprinkling a fair number of plot hooks and possible NPCs, both friend or foe. Regardless of how much I write, I try to include something for my DM to use, even if it is the cliche "They've kidnapped your family! Go save them"

The only times I really expect, or believe it appropriate, to use a character's backstory in a game is if that game has been going on for a while, and the character has endured for most of it. If everyone else has gone through two or three characters, through a combination of deaths and retirement, but one player has doggedly stuck to this guy, then I'm going to consider throwing in something from that character's backstory. If I'm devoting a session or more to focus on one player's character, then I want them to have earnt it.

Jay R
2013-01-22, 11:03 AM
My experience is that most DMs will use your backstory to the extent that they had a hand in creating it.

My current DM gave us a very detailed setup that our background had to fit into, and every adventure is very tightly tied into out shared background.

But if they didn't help write it, then it isn't what they're thinking about when writing adventures.

I had a particularly successful time with a background that I didn't write at all. In Flashing Blades, I gave my character the disadvantage Secret Origins. He was left as a baby on the steps of Notre Dame in a basket, and the only clue of his origins was a satin blanket with the monogram "JL" stitched in silk. I told the GM that I didn't know what his background was. He could ignore it and leave it a mystery, or use it any way he wanted. That let him write the story into his world in a way that made sense to him.

Three of the first seven adventures were designed about his background.

Vorr
2013-01-22, 11:19 AM
As a DM, to what extent do you use your players' backstories in your game?

It depends on the player. Though mostly I'm on the side of keeping back stories in the back.

For example, A player might write a nice detailed backstory, but once the game starts the will just want to ''kill, loot,repeat''. If the player makes little effort, then I will do the same.

The other end is the soap opera player. They, for example, want to go home and ''prove dad wrong'' or whatever. It sounds great, but it's hard in a group game. When the group is knee deep in the Marsh of Doom, the single character can't really ''go home''. And even if the character did, it sadly works out to be like ten minutes of wasted time.

But maybe the worst is when the backstory comes alive, and the player does not like it. Then the player will just endlessly complain that you are ''ruining the backstory''.

Jay R
2013-01-22, 11:24 AM
It's a blessing and a curse, since DM's tend to love to use my backstories to flesh out the story they're telling, but it also gives them ample opportunity to use it against me.

Sometimes a rich, complex backstory can doom you.

Don't ever worry about the DM using your backstory against you. It has no effect on how much trouble you'll have to face.

He's going to use something against you, whether you have a backstory or not. That's his job. Using the backstory doesn't make it harder or more dangerous, just more personally interesting.

Hopeless
2013-01-22, 11:43 AM
Yes but for the most part has never happened.

Been playing Dungeons and Dragons of the various editions (barring 5th so far), Gurps 3rd and 4th, Shadowrun, Traveller (Classic to d20 not Megatraveller though), Call of Cthulhu, Cortex, Flesh must be eaten or whatever its called but only once since starting playing rpg's around the early eighties have I ever had the backstory of a character I created ever used in a game.

That was a fighter created for 2nd edition d&d that was ported over to Gurps 3rd edition she was a follower of Lara the Patron of Adventuresses and with Gurps I included her mother was a wealthy merchant with the intent on trying to find her missing ship captain father.
Was the only time this actually got used.

About the only time I didn't get to do a backstory on were pre-generated characters such as Flesh must be eaten or Battlestar galactica Cortex game still haven't played the Firefly version which should be interesting...

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-01-22, 11:48 AM
Backgrounds do two things:

1) They establish who your character is. They let you start playing in character right from the beginning.

2) They give the DM hooks that he may or may not pick up on.

Generally, a DM should pick up on no more than 1 or 2 hooks per character. This is to keep the character from becoming the star of the show... he can probably pick 2 threads from each person and keep a story going. After that, the stories you tell should generate future hooks.
Hear, hear! Using hooks from character backgrounds is good and fun, but the GM is also under no obligation to use your character's background.

On the other hand, I can understand the dismay at what appears to be a minimalizing of potential background plot hooks. Ah well.

ArcturusV
2013-01-22, 12:08 PM
Honestly when I write a background for a PC.... I tend to FORCE the issue and bring it into play when appropriate rather than wait for the DM to force feed it to me. Some DMs love it. Some get mildly annoyed as they say it feels like I'm forcing them to come up with answers they don't have on the spot... though I usually smooth it out with them afterwards and explain to them I'm fine with having no real answer at the time.

Backstory is often what drives my characters (Until the plot becomes central to his/her motivations). It tells me what their long term goals are, what they care about, who they care about. Even from level 1, right out the gate my character is using their backstory to try and judge where they will end up, what they will do, and why, and twist around what plot hooks are generated by the DM to be interesting in relation to my character's backstory in some way. e.g: Why I am being a Murderhobo, rather than being one then after the fact trying to justify it.

As a DM? I use and abuse any decently generated backstory. Most players won't give you a real detailed one. My experience tends to be with most backstories that what I'll get from about 80% of players is, "Umm... I'm a wanderer... looking for adventure. I ran away from home because there wasn't enough adventure." If that's all it is... eh. I may use it. But there's not a lot of meat to hook on. If someone else though gives me the backstory about how they were a prisoner wrongfully convicted who got blessed by an Angel of Justice who helped them escape and divinely granted their first level powers to help them effect it? I'm going to use it on any situation where it may logically come up.

mistformsquirrl
2013-01-22, 12:25 PM
For me, I don't expect it. I try to leave plot hooks in my backgrounds, but I don't expect it because I understand it can be awkward for the DM; especially if you've included characters in your past who may crop up again. It's hard for the DM to get the right 'feel' for an old friend or your parents unless you really spell out their characterization for them... and then you're practically writing a novel.

That said I always leave a plot hook or two just in case, some are simple, others complex, but I always leave it in there in case the DM feels like taking us on a detour through one of our character's past life.

nedz
2013-01-22, 12:28 PM
As a DM I try to use a PC's back story, but it's not always possible.

What I'm looking for principally is the reason they left home and took up their journey. If I can work this into the plot then excellent, but sometimes the back story is unhelpful — usually because it's dull or it's stuff I can't involve the whole group in. Stuff that's designed to give the character some mechanical advantage is stuff I will usually subvert :smallamused: It would be easy to get annoyed with such attempts at unearned power grabbing, but there are other approaches.

As a player I usually keep my back stories simple so it's probably my fault that they don't generate plot points, but I would prefer to develop the character in response to in-play stimuli rather than a priori ones.

Wonton
2013-01-23, 04:51 AM
Backgrounds do two things:

1) They establish who your character is. They let you start playing in character right from the beginning.

2) They give the DM hooks that he may or may not pick up on.

Generally, a DM should pick up on no more than 1 or 2 hooks per character. This is to keep the character from becoming the star of the show... he can probably pick 2 threads from each person and keep a story going. After that, the stories you tell should generate future hooks.

Yes, this 2nd point can't be understated. I once played a lot with a friend of mine - he was the DM, I was a player, and we'd find 3 others and run a campaign. While he was in the world-genesis phase, I was talking to him about my Wizard and how I wanted to take the Geometer prestige class eventually and how I had all these cool ideas on how to fluff it...

Well, as the campaign progressed he started talking more and more about geometer stuff. We were finding ancient geometer ruins, solving mysteries left behind by ancient geometers, decoding geometer glyphs that decided important events... needless to say the other 3 people at the table were kinda annoyed that all this stuff about my character kept coming up. All in all, a bit awkward (although I'm now great friends with 2 of those players so it turned out okay).

ArcturusV
2013-01-23, 05:04 AM
That's also a case though Wonton where I tell people, "What do you expect? HE gave me ideas and backstory and you all didn't. So anytime there was call for a backstory relevant plot to come up in the schedule I only had one choice."

Kane0
2013-01-23, 05:43 AM
Id like for it to be used, but if it does not fit in the campaign id prefer the honesty of "sorry, that wont work for what i have planned" over killing off te plot hooks.

If parts of it are used, i like them to he sidequests or neat little pices of te main plot, not my backstory driving the game.

Hopeless
2013-01-23, 06:45 AM
Id like for it to be used, but if it does not fit in the campaign id prefer the honesty of "sorry, that wont work for what i have planned" over killing off te plot hooks.

If parts of it are used, i like them to he sidequests or neat little pices of te main plot, not my backstory driving the game.

And when its ignored entirely or as in the opening comment completely rendered worthless because the dm doesn't care for ideas other than their own in how their games are run?

BobVosh
2013-01-23, 07:11 AM
In my group? Pretty much never. I always fill out the ten minute background (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19713850/The_Ten-Minute_Background--Post_your_characters!) before I get to the first session. Afterwards, when I get bored, I go through and fill it in.

So usually I have a large backstory I never use by the third session.

turkey901
2013-01-23, 07:23 AM
I honestly would prefer that it mostly never come up. How many people's families were killed by bandits only to have their sibling suddenly show up as leader of X? It feels too cliched to me. Now I will always try and come up with a suitable backstory and will insert potential plot hooks so any GM has the option to either use one of them or build something seperate on top of something I have written but by and large anything my character did in his past before level 1 is usually less important than what he is looking forward to in his future. Thats not to say that their past isnt important and doesnt drive them but unless part of his personality is dwelling on something that happened before then his history really only amounts to flavour and motivations that are privy to the GM and myself. If you really wish your GM to use your past then it is something you should probably discuss with them. I know I wouldnt really want to use anything major until at least mid levels since I imagine it should take at least 3 sessions to properly settle whatever plot hook you want (unless you are looking for a quick "You find your brother", "I'm happy", "Ok moving on"), and if thats the case then as another player I would get a bit annoyed that I feel like a supporting character, especially in the first few levels.

Amphetryon
2013-01-23, 07:46 AM
I have found, personally, that using a Character's background against said Character is a double-edged sword. I've had Players who complained that reliance on the background they provided for plot-hooks was "lazy DMing," and I've seen others who respond to any bad things happening to them as a result of their backstory by resorting to "Adventurer Orphan Syndrome," where they provide a background that is as completely devoid of plot-hooks as possible. On the other hand, I've had Players complain that they expect any named person within their background to be at least tangentially important to the main plot arc.

Sadly, the above is not hyperbole.

DigoDragon
2013-01-23, 08:57 AM
When I'm not the DM of the group, usually my expectations of having my background used is quite low.

I always take the time to make a decent background of my character's personal history and personality, incorporating disadvantages and quirks too if the system uses those concepts for bonus points.

However, usually nothing comes of it from the GM's side. I'm fine with that and I just role-play my part to enjoy the game. I think the main reason my backgrounds are often overlooked is because they're fairly normal and straight forward, while the GM prefers to pick on unusual points for his hooks. Usually the oddest detail I have is the last part, which is my personal hook for why the character just turned to adventuring as a career.


As an example for how "Unusual" the other players plot hooks are that they're picked on more so then mine: I once played a light blue, American English speaking boastful magical unicorn from another dimension intent on ruling this mundane "Earth" planet and the most that ever came of that was a couple stoners thinking they were on Candid Camera.

The other players STILL beat me out for unusual backgrounds.

Jay R
2013-01-23, 10:01 AM
If the DM didn't help write the background, then it's part of your character conception, but not part of his world conception. He's not likely to use it.

If you want your DM to use your character story, then talk to him about it, and collaborate.

Otherwise, you're off in one house writing one story, while he's off in another house writing another one. OF COURSE they won't be connected.

Asheram
2013-01-23, 10:43 AM
When I'm asked for a backstory and write it, I usually just give a general outline with family, happenings, life... And then tell the DM to go crazy with it.

It gets much more interesting when you meet up with that long lost father of yours and you had no hand in writing his story.

yougi
2013-01-23, 11:24 AM
Well thank you all for your responses. To be honest, the results are not really what I was expecting, and sort of calm me down. They also make me feel awesome as a DM for making my PCs' backgrounds come into the setting. :smallcool:

I'd also want to point out I didn't want people to go "oh poor kid, your DM didn't use your story", but simply to know what is the "average" level of background use. The DM in my example is way more experienced than I am, having started DMing before I was born, so I guess my games are the odd ones out.

nedz
2013-01-23, 11:34 AM
There have been instances where I held off on using a piece of someone's back story until they were 10th level or so. This has normally worked quite well, though it can surprise the player.

killer_monk
2013-01-23, 11:49 AM
i often end up writing an entire page or more for my character's backgrounds. i stopped though because my DMs would never go into it. I had a paladin who's back-story was extremely elaborate. he died after the third session because the rest of the party turned on him and mocked his god, the party then decided that a suit of full plate was worth more than my paladin so they just mugged him, knocked him out and stole all his stuff leaving him for dead in a dungeon.

i don't even try anymore.:smallfrown:

ArcturusV
2013-01-23, 12:04 PM
Ouch. Never had that happen to any of my characters, though I have known some that has happened to at my tables. Usually the guy who is basically making the game no fun for everyone, though sometimes it's just the act of a renegade Rogue or something who decides on his own he wants to cut someone's throat while they're asleep and take his stuff.

NikitaDarkstar
2013-01-23, 12:25 PM
I enjoy writing and backgrounds help me understand my character better so I tend to write long back stories. I don't really expect it to come up in games all that often but it's always a pleasant surprise when it does. But I also try to focus more on the events than the specific details (names, places, things like that) just to make it easier to work into a game if the DM does decide to use it. (And considering I write it all up in one sitting, from the top of my head details like names and such tend to grind me to a halt, if needed I go back and edit it in later.)

valadil
2013-01-23, 12:43 PM
My answer depends on how jaded I'm feeling at the time.

I expect the ideal GM to use everything I provide, combined with everything the rest of the party provides to weave a rich tapestry of story that could only be realized by the precise combination of this set of characters.

I'm often disappointed.

Nowadays if I'm starting with a new GM, I give them a 50/50 to acknowledge my backstory at all, even trivially. "You make your journey from *stares at sheet* Lyrabar and ...". That could be the end of the backstory's involvement and it would still count towards the 50% that use the backstory. The other half never mention it. I've even seen some GMs collect and never read the backstory. I think they just like the power trip and feel they should assign homework for the right to play in their game.

Anyway, I use the first game with a GM to figure out what sort of backstories to give this person. If the GM neglects to ever acknowledge the backstory, screw it, they're not getting more. If the GM mentions trivial details, I'll give them the bare minimum effort from then on. If a GM takes my story and runs with it, I'll flood him with as much story as he's willing to read.

Sometimes I go to absurd lengths to detect if the GM is even reading my backstory. This includes writing the backstory en espanol, naming all my contacts Jesus, and using the script from an SNL sketch with the title replaced by my character's name. Only the spanish one got caught.

ArcturusV
2013-01-23, 12:54 PM
Reminds me of writers who submit manuscripts to publishers with some "Trick" to tell if the publisher even read it.

Like a lot of them I tend to either ignore the trick so they just go "You didn't even READ it!" even as I do reference it in game or say things like "oh, due to your background in ____ I'll let you _____ even though typically the rules don't support it." Or if it strikes me as funny I'll just play into whatever the trick of the day is and act like it was a perfectly serious part of the suggestion.

TheThan
2013-01-23, 09:19 PM
Usually I write a fairly short and simple background, include a few characters the dm can use (lost older brother thought dead etc), and call it a day. If the DM uses the background, that’s great, if they didn’t well I didn’t strain my brain thinking of one.

That being said, I don’t feel DMs should use a character’s back-story as a weapon. That is to say, I don’t believe that the DM should use a back-story against that character. Back stories should be used to create a subplot or push the existing plot forward, depending on what that back story is. Not to punish the players for actually caring enough about their characters to make a background.

Gnomish Wanderer
2013-01-23, 10:22 PM
I always use my players' back stories as a GM. And I warn my players that if they don't give me a back story, they will be given one. And it will come into play.

As a player, I've often come up with long and involved back stories with plenty of meaty hooks for GMs to build a story out of, but I'm generally disappointed with the lack of interest in the GM's part. They have their own stories to tell and don't want to try to fit mine into it, which I suppose I understand.

kyoryu
2013-01-23, 10:25 PM
Depends on the game, honestly. An old-school D&D game? Yeah, not so much. Something more narrative, like Fate? Oh, yeah, I expect it to be part of the game.


and using the script from an SNL sketch with the title replaced by my character's name.

This would be awesome with the Happyfunball skit.

Jay R
2013-01-24, 12:08 AM
I've usually gone back and forth with the DM a dozen or two times by the time the backstory is finished. By the time I'm done, he's thought about it a lot, and it fits his game conception - especially the parts I don't know about.

I'm currently in a game in which a major plot point is elvish orphans being sold into slavery by the orphanages. I did not know that when he and I put together a backstory of my character as an elvish orphan who ran away from the orphanage early.

And the back-and-forth paid off. My backstory has been a crucial part of the game - long before I knew it was connected to the slavers we were tracking down.

Talk to the DM. Don't expect him to work an alien and unknown story into his plot. Get his buy-in on the backstory while it's being written.

5a Violista
2013-01-24, 09:33 PM
i often end up writing an entire page or more for my character's backgrounds. i stopped though because my DMs would never go into it. I had a paladin who's back-story was extremely elaborate. he died after the third session because the rest of the party turned on him and mocked his god, the party then decided that a suit of full plate was worth more than my paladin so they just mugged him, knocked him out and stole all his stuff leaving him for dead in a dungeon.

i don't even try anymore.:smallfrown:

It would be pretty funny if the DM had him turn into a Blackguard and become the BBEG. The DM could have even used part of the backstory, then.

Jarawara
2013-01-25, 12:50 AM
What Jay R wrote above wins the thread, hands down. His answer is the most concise and complete of all the possible responses.

For those who might have missed it, I repost:


If the DM didn't help write the background, then it's part of your character conception, but not part of his world conception. He's not likely to use it.

If you want your DM to use your character story, then talk to him about it, and collaborate.

Otherwise, you're off in one house writing one story, while he's off in another house writing another one. OF COURSE they won't be connected.

This, this, and more this!!!

When I am DMing a game, I want a hand in making the characters just so I can help build the backstory of the opening scenes to match with the background of the characters. If something is going into the PC's backstory that doesn't fit, I can discuss it with them up front -- and if something in the backstory was unexpected, I have time to revise the background data of my campaign to fit it.

I find this also to be true even as the campaign continues forward. Sometimes my players will add details into the gameplay that I hadn't expected, but as long as they are willing to discuss it with me first, I can usually make it fit into the story.

I once was introducing an NPC by the name of Jonich, younger brother of the nation's leader. I explained how the PC's would know who he was from previous reference, but I had intended the scene to be their first actual meeting and introduction. One of the players began describing how she had "sweaty palms"... which I guess could be simply ascribed to nervousness. But my players know that explaining their actions usually pays dividends - and so she went on to explain that she's had a crush on Jonich but has never been able to talk to him about it, and always seemed to avoid him, etc, etc, etc... One of the other players chimed in on how his character was aware of her condition and often teased her about it, etc, etc...

Well, that didn't really jive with my assumptions that this would be their first ever meeting - but since I now knew what the players were thinking, I could adjust my thinking to match. Instead of a 'formal introduction' roleplay, I had Jonich spot them from across the room and call out to them, Jaran walked up to slap Jonich on the back, Harod asked Jon if he ever fixed his fishing pole from that last 'incident' (Jonich is a fisherman? Ok... I'll roll with it!) Allis stood back quietly rubbing her sweaty palms together and trying not to be noticed. The whole scene changed, and with it also the player's access to people of power as now they were clearly on first-name basis with the leader's brother.

If my players hadn't explained their perceptions, (and me be willing to use them), then I'd have been writing my story, and they'd have been writing theirs, and never the twain shall meet.

Amidus Drexel
2013-01-25, 01:16 AM
As a player: I try to write a few sentences/character level (at bit more for 1st level), and I expect it to get brought up at least once during the campaign, even if it's only something minor.

As a DM: I've never gotten much from my players (I've been given exactly two, both from the same guy), so I don't normally get to work that stuff in. The few opportunities I have had, though, I made sure to bring it up once or twice, and then let it be, giving the player the option to re-introduce it later on, if they wanted to.

DigoDragon
2013-01-25, 07:24 AM
Otherwise, you're off in one house writing one story, while he's off in another house writing another one. OF COURSE they won't be connected.

There are the rare exceptions where the GM builds his adventures around the PCs, thus getting unrelated plot points interconnected.

Once led to a campaign where the Monk's long lost brother turns out to be the BBEG who was working with a red dragon that turned out to be the princess heir of the Fighter's kingdom, and said princess had created a terrorist group. Meanwhile, the Sorcerer's girlfriend turned out to be that said terrorist group's spymaster who accidently burned down the Bard's home town... it was a glorious interconnected trainwreck and everyone loved it.

Amphetryon
2013-01-25, 08:14 AM
There are the rare exceptions where the GM builds his adventures around the PCs, thus getting unrelated plot points interconnected.

Once led to a campaign where the Monk's long lost brother turns out to be the BBEG who was working with a red dragon that turned out to be the princess heir of the Fighter's kingdom, and said princess had created a terrorist group. Meanwhile, the Sorcerer's girlfriend turned out to be that said terrorist group's spymaster who accidently burned down the Bard's home town... it was a glorious interconnected trainwreck and everyone loved it.

I suspect the rarity factor changes considerably based on individual experience. I've known several DMs who had the first session be all about writing up Characters and backgrounds, allowing those DMs to get ideas for the game that directly tied to the PCs.

ArcturusV
2013-01-25, 09:17 AM
Kind of how I'm running my 4th Edition Campaign.

As we started we had a Half-Elf Monk who was a former slave and murdered his guards to freedom. A Tiefling Wizard/Shaman who was a nomadic wanderer who almost got captured and sold into slavery at one point. A drow swordman who was an ex-prisoner who escaped a life sentence with the help of an angel. A Dragonborn Soldier on an extended mission in foreign lands. And a Half-Elf Ranger who hailed from a city lost in time, who had lost knowledge of the ancient Precursors.

Interestingly enough despite the large amount of Slavery/Prisoners to the best of my knowledge it was a fluke, no one really planned it out like that. But I took it and ran with it. The first adventure involved the Monk leading the group based on rumors of the location of his former Slave Owner (Who still had his Mom as per his own created background), who had rescued the Tiefling from being caught by slavers earlier. And said Lord who owned the monk originally had connections to Precursor Expeditions (Which hasn't been followed up yet), and ties to the Empire which imprisoned the Drow (Again which hasn't been followed up yet though the hooks were put out there).

themocaw
2013-01-29, 02:48 PM
My experience is generally that any background that isn't revealed or developed at the table turns into the GM and player exchanging cryptic messages and in-jokes that no one else gets.

Kelb_Panthera
2013-01-30, 07:45 AM
As a player, how much backstory I even put together before the game depends largely on how I came up with the character. Sometimes I build around a mechanical concept and then attach a personality to it, sometimes I come up with a character and then build him mechanically. The latter tends to have a more detailed history, though I always come up with at least some basic bits. I never bother to write any of it down unless the DM asks me to or I decide I want my character's background to be important, in which case I explicitly ask the DM to incorporate it if he can.

As a DM I don't ask that players submit a background with their character sheets. I just ask them what kind of adventures they're looking to get into before using the method in my sig most of the time. I generally only ask them point-blank if their character has any sort of family after they've made an enemy of someone that would threaten that family to gain some kind of leverage; not something that often happens and not often something those villians pursue since the adventurers are usually far from home. If a player does submit a written background I'll ask him point-blank if he wants elements of that background to be part of the game, then go into a short Q&A for details. This comes with the caveat warning that, "I'll use it if I can, but I can't make any guarantees that things will go that way."

In my occasional themed games I'll usually tell the players before character creation that it's a themed game and that an extensive background for their characters will only be used for me to try and understand their motivations and personality; not as part of the plot.

Themed game = World-shaking events taking place; comedy, horror, or meat-grinder games; unusual class/race restrictions; etc.

TL;DR: I'm pretty flexible about this sort of thing from either side of the screen.