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Doomboy911
2013-01-22, 12:43 AM
So I'm running this superhero campaign where the way superheroes are done is kind of stupid (savage world) so I made a deal stating that instead of doing things the dumb way (building skills for powers which means wasting levels) I decided that instead they'd each have a kryptonite. Something that would quickly take them down.
The heroes I have to deal with is;


1. Titan a man made of metal who's a master of magnetism.
I gave him a electricity as a weakness not that it disables him but cranks up his powers causing tons of metal to come flying his way.


2. Umbra a man with a bit of demon in him. He has the power to suck evil out of people and make himself more powerful.
Weakness wise I threw holy stuff at him for weakness.


3.Archangel. A friggin' archangel who draws his power from a holy sword that has been passed down from one archangel to the next.
Weakness is no sword no power.


4. Storyteller. She has the power to change how things happened. Nothing to major just turn killing blows into glancing blows and what not. She's part fey so cold iron is her weakness.

5. iNC a man able to bring his tattoos to life. Sadly if his tattoos get nailed by lots of water they sort of disintegrate.

6. Kitsune. This guy wanted to be a kitsune so boom he's a kitsune.
I decided that he'd get all the weaknesses as well since it would be lame to go halfway with this.
Weakness wise though what hurts kitsune they're a part of mythology that eludes me.

7. Ghost (not his name but he takes forever with that stuff.) He's steadily gaining ghost powers but for now he just talks to ghosts.
I figured he'd have the drawbacks of the ghosts since they're ghosts. They can't pass over running water or salt circles.

Finally the big issue.8. Stretch. He's a fine mixture of shapeshifters he's mystique, beast boy, and Jake the dog. How do you hurt something like that.

I'm calling out to all my nerd friends for help in coming up with good weaknesses for these folks.
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AntiTrust
2013-01-22, 03:48 AM
That's only one way from their core book on how to build supers. They have a super powers book that does it better, you can even look at their Necessary Evil book which also does it better than core. I'd really take a look at either of those books

Firest Kathon
2013-01-22, 04:05 AM
7. Ghost (not his name but he takes forever with that stuff.) He's steadily gaining ghost powers but for now he just talks to ghosts.
I figured he'd have the drawbacks of the ghosts since they're ghosts. They can't pass over running water or salt circles.
Hehe ... Water pipes in houses, sewers under the street ... he would be going nowhere. Maybe the more his powers grow, the further away the water has to be.


Finally the big issue.8. Stretch. He's a fine mixture of shapeshifters he's mystique, beast boy, and Jake the dog. How do you hurt something like that.
I think traditionally werewolves are hurt by silver weapons.

Erik Vale
2013-01-22, 04:12 AM
Same.

Possibly have him take personality traits of creatures whose shape he's in. If he's a bear he becomes iratable, short sighted, and sleepy if it's winter. Have these effects last after he returns to normal, for a duration based on how long he was transformed.
Anyone want to throw a hunk of meat while he's a wolf? :smallbiggrin:

Khedrac
2013-01-22, 04:27 AM
Another thing you could throw at the shifter is size change problems (inspired by Mavin Manyshaped):

If he shifts into a smaller size them something organic remains behind. He can't shift into a larger size without something organic to consume to provide the size boost...

Vitruviansquid
2013-01-22, 04:35 AM
The shapeshifter could be weak to the cold, slowing down his ability to shapeshift because he can't melt his body to re-shape it. Freezing him or freezing a part of him disables his shapeshifting as well.

Hopeless
2013-01-22, 05:46 AM
Depends on whether you use that series about kids assuming animal forms in that they needed to touch that animal to be able to assume their form.

Beast Boy I believe had a couple of limits one being he is bright green so are his other forms and the larger the form the less time he can stay in that form.

Has he taken any acting or disguise skills because if they're seriously imitating Mystique they need to be able to act in character and usually they don't think about that!

Odo from DS9 had to rest in a bucket by the way but I assume the character is relatively human?

Oh I've heard they recently turned him bright red in the new 52 enough said...

RoyVG
2013-01-22, 08:15 AM
Maybe something like Rumpelstiltskin, where if you know his true identity, e.g. his real name, he loses his shapechangin powers in an instant when you say his real name and revert back to his real self.

Or maybe something like in that one Ditto episode from Pokemon, where he is unable to transform one feature of his original self e.g. facial features, a tail, overall body size. Make sure it is noticable when he doesn't cover it up.

Jay R
2013-01-22, 10:02 AM
When I ran a Plastic Man/Bouncing Boy character, his weakness was cold. He lost his powers, and got brittle.

But this is more a shape shifter than a stretcher, even if he can become a giraffe. I'd would make him slowly start feeling and acting like what he copies. If he turns into a carnivore, he starts wanting to attack. If he turns into a bird, he'd be tempted to fly away. If he disguises himself like one of the bad guys, he starts wondering why he bothers to fight crimes, etc.

Doomboy911
2013-01-22, 10:11 AM
You see I kept thinking about the freezing aspect and every time I come to that conclusion the general response from me is "but I don't wanna freeze villain" I understand that mr freeze is epic but that's only when you see things from his perspective which we're not going to see. The stretcher really is a problem though.

ReaderAt2046
2013-01-22, 11:38 AM
Possibly have the shifter risk losing control and collapsing into a puddle of goo every time he's distracted?

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-01-22, 11:42 AM
Steal from FATE: each power is an Aspect, and when your power causes you problems (which is something that the players can call for as well), you earn a bennie. (Maybe more than one? I forget how powerful bennies are.) This keeps the players working creatively and proactively about their powers' weaknesses.

navar100
2013-01-22, 12:51 PM
Finally the big issue.8. Stretch. He's a fine mixture of shapeshifters he's mystique, beast boy, and Jake the dog. How do you hurt something like that.



Cold.

It slows down his body metabolism making him unable to change form.

Slipperychicken
2013-01-22, 01:45 PM
Perhaps Shapeshifter risks unintentional reversion (and being locked into his normal form for a while) when he acts out of character for the form he's in, like a rhino trying to flee, or a brontosaurus acting too aggressively. And if he doesn't use his real form enough, he risks losing control and being temporarily overwhelmed by his "animal" side, acting irrationally and instinctively, barely comprehending normal speech patterns. He can anticipate these unfortunate events by incredible cramps which worsen until he locks out.

Ghost might risk being stuck in the ethereal (unable to interact with real world) for a few minutes if he uses his powers too long at one time. If this persists, he might even lose corporeality for a few hours or even days. Also, the grim reaper will start harassing him; maybe he offers Ghost the chance to remain in the world if he does jobs for the Reaper. Otherwise, the Reaper is a truly fearsome foe who will ultimately defeat Ghost and drag him to meet his maker. It should be possible, albeit very very difficult, to defeat or evade the Reaper, who will keep returning in stronger forms every month (the intervals begin decrease after the first three times) until he overwhelms Ghost and prevails.

Archangel draws strength from the faithful. He is weakened slightly when confronted with unholy symbols or blasphemy. If there's a lot of it in the area (like being near an altar to Satan, or when there aren't any believers in a 10 mile radius), it imposes significant penalties. Conversely, in strongly holy areas like the insides or churches, he receives bonuses. To mitigate unholy areas, he may take one minute set up a small shrine called a sanctuary, which removes penalties for unholy areas, and in normal areas makes the area holy out to 200 feet or so.

Lapak
2013-01-22, 01:46 PM
Stretch
Another way to deal with the shapeshifter is to go more literally with the kryptonite route (and/or Green Lantern) and pick an uncommon-but-not-rare substance/object/condition that 'locks' his form for a time, making him both more vulnerable to harm and unable to get out of a form that might be useful in one situation but not others.

Let's skip silver (and gold, for that matter) since you've already got a cold-iron vulnerability in the group. But you do want something that could be a weapon or could be made into a restraint. Hmm. Since you're running with the classic references, let's run a little 'gates of horn and ivory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gates_of_horn_and_ivory)' on him. He is vulnerable to anything crafted from either of these materials; horn's truth forces him back into his natural state so long as he in contact with it; ivory does the same but locks him into whatever shape he had when it touched him. Great to have 20-foot arms when you're stretching to hit a guy, but those long rubbery arms become a real handicap when you're stuck with 'em.

TheThan
2013-01-22, 02:10 PM
I would go a primal route with the shapeshifter guy. Give him tribal masks that allow him to transform into the animal the mask represents. So a panther mask would transform him into a panther etc. The drawback is that the mask can be knocked off his face, turning him back to normal and that he can only transform into a creature if he has the appropriate mask.

Granted you would have to lose some of his powers to make it fit. But the idea is interesting, and would make for a good Polynesian character.

Slipperychicken
2013-01-22, 02:56 PM
I would go a primal route with the shapeshifter guy. Give him tribal masks that allow him to transform into the animal the mask represents. So a panther mask would transform him into a panther etc. The drawback is that the mask can be knocked off his face, turning him back to normal and that he can only transform into a creature if he has the appropriate mask.

Granted you would have to lose some of his powers to make it fit. But the idea is interesting, and would make for a good Polynesian character.

Also sounds like an interesting route of character-advancement. Over the course of the campaign, he may encounter or be presented with new masks, unlocking more forms. For fairness, I'd say the masks are really spirits given form, which disintegrate when they take damage but can be called back into existence with a short ritual or meditation (depending on how much enemies they target the masks and how durable they are, this could take anywhere from a minute to an hour). The mask currently active also appears subtly in some form on whatever shape he takes, and a savvy opponent may target them normally. Due to his spiritual bond with the masks, whenever someone deals damage to a mask, he takes equal damage, and a little more when it's disintegrated.

Such a character could make for a pretty cool bossfight, actually...

TheThan
2013-01-22, 05:45 PM
Lets see, you could include aspects of mystique by allowing him to create masks of people; which would allow him to take on the appearance of them. Think Darkman, only spiritual and tribal.

You know, the more I think about this, the more I like the character. Time to create!

Doomboy911
2013-01-22, 08:37 PM
I've heard the idea that he becomes bestial but that's not really a kryptonite neither is having enough body mass. These are just limits not weaknesses. I like this talk of a tribal shifter and I might make a villain of it. Something of a villain that hunts heroes because well they're difficult to hunt. Someone who can bend steel and teleport makes for an interesting quarry. So at the very least I have a villain or an enemy but a weakness still eludes me. The player has suggested that he be immune to poison as he just stretches his kidneys out to withstand the poison. So even if I wanted to use poison it's an issue.

For the archangel I've devised a magnificent villain. He's protesting a certain prison that all villains with three strikes are sent to of which there is no escape. What the guy does is have a peaceful protest and waits for the police to show up and than using his powers he makes the police violent just to prove his point. The guy isn't wrong but he's not as right as he thinks he is. The archangel honestly can't hurt the guy who will be his villain without knowing that he's evil. The guy calls himself the Martyr of Metas.

Vitruviansquid
2013-01-22, 08:42 PM
You don't really need a cold-themed villain to give the shapeshifter a cold-based kryptonite. Just let villains get their hands on cold-themed weaponry once in a while, or set scenes in places with cold-based hazards (such as a meat-packing plant, where the shapeshifter could get trapped in a freezer). After all, I don't remember Superman having any kryptonite-themed villains and it didn't make his kryptonite weakness any less relevant.

Doomboy911
2013-01-22, 08:53 PM
Metallo was sort of kryptonite themed in that he had a heart made of the stuff. I might have it that the general weakness for shifters is the cold. I just don't want it to seem far fetched that the villains just so happened to have his weakness. Now if it's just average for shifters to have the weakness of the cold than I can have it that the villains have it just in case and after he gets a bit of notoriety they all sort of prepare.

Slipperychicken
2013-01-22, 09:15 PM
The player has suggested that he be immune to poison as he just stretches his kidneys out to withstand the poison. So even if I wanted to use poison it's an issue.


That's really stretching it :smallcool:. Only let him do that if he shells out the points/feats/etc for poison-immunity, because it's silly and wouldn't work unless he's drastically the mass. Also, nerve-toxins like cyanide kill faster anyway. Not all poisons care about kidneys, especially in superhero-universe.


Have you worked out where exactly he's getting these powers? Even if it's tecnhobabble or "a wizard did it", that would help for finding a weakness.

Nepenthe
2013-01-22, 09:18 PM
Finally the big issue.8. Stretch. He's a fine mixture of shapeshifters he's mystique, beast boy, and Jake the dog. How do you hurt something like that.
His skin is damaged by UV light, and he requires regular corn syrup infusions.

Doomboy911
2013-01-22, 09:22 PM
The player decided to go with the old lab accident warped him. He was knocked into a coma for a bit and sort of stretched his wounds away. He took the stuff to get poison immunity. I might run with the cold based weakness. It's actually kind of funny as like four members of the group get shut down by water if not hurt by it. iNC.'s tattoos don't work when they get soaked, ghost can't cross water, Titan risks rusting, storyteller needs something to write on so nothing wet. Honestly I'm throwing a water based enemy at them.

Xuc Xac
2013-01-22, 09:42 PM
I decided that instead they'd each have a kryptonite. Something that would quickly take them down.

The problem with that is that it gets old really fast. It sounds good in theory, but in practice it just comes down to the GM hitting the "you lose" button in every adventure to make things "challenging". Why do they need to be taken down quickly? Take a note from the Incredibles: "When everyone is super, no one is." If their enemies are all superpowered too, then it doesn't really matter how powerful they are. Everyone is working on the same scale. Kryptonites are really cheap limitations. There's no dilemma for the players to solve. It's just "the same, but harder" or "you lose now, try again later".

It's much more interesting to challenge them by just giving them problems that their powers can't solve directly. Instead of "You're super strong, but now you can't lift this bus full of orphans because it has kryptonite on it," do something like "You're super strong, but the orphanage is facing bankruptcy. You can't punch out their bill collectors to make this problem go away, Captain Hero."



2. Umbra a man with a bit of demon in him. He has the power to suck evil out of people and make himself more powerful.
Weakness wise I threw holy stuff at him for weakness.


I bet he'll love being in the same party with the Archangel.


3.Archangel. A friggin' archangel who draws his power from a holy sword that has been passed down from one archangel to the next.
Weakness is no sword no power.


Not much of an archangel if he needs an item to have any power. More like Iron Man with a sword instead of a suit. Can he do anything interesting without the sword? If not, then taking away the sword will just be a "you lose" button instead of an interesting challenge. It's boring.



4. Storyteller. She has the power to change how things happened. Nothing to major just turn killing blows into glancing blows and what not. She's part fey so cold iron is her weakness.


Do you know why you never see any fey around? Because iron is everywhere! The cold iron weakness of fey wasn't made up to limit their power. It's to explain why humans rule the world and fey are never seen even though they have all kinds of magical powers: they became completely powerless when the bronze age ended. I'm sure she'll love hanging out with Titan, especially when he starts drawing in every magnetic bit of metal in the area.



5. iNC a man able to bring his tattoos to life. Sadly if his tattoos get nailed by lots of water they sort of disintegrate.


See every internet discussion ever about M Night Shyamalan's movie "Signs" for why weakness to water is an extremely stupid idea for anyone who wants to do anything on the planet Earth.



6. Kitsune. This guy wanted to be a kitsune so boom he's a kitsune.
I decided that he'd get all the weaknesses as well since it would be lame to go halfway with this.
Weakness wise though what hurts kitsune they're a part of mythology that eludes me.


They're hurt by the same things as everyone else. They're shapeshifters, but not the super-regenerating kind. They're like Mystique, but not as good at it: they can look like anyone they want, but they can't get rid of their tails. Not a terribly huge flaw.



7. Ghost (not his name but he takes forever with that stuff.) He's steadily gaining ghost powers but for now he just talks to ghosts.
I figured he'd have the drawbacks of the ghosts since they're ghosts. They can't pass over running water or salt circles.


With the invention of plumbing, running water is a lot more common.


Finally the big issue.8. Stretch. He's a fine mixture of shapeshifters he's mystique, beast boy, and Jake the dog. How do you hurt something like that.

Some people have suggested freezing, but that just makes me think of Dracula in "Hotel Transylvania".

"Garlic?"
"That's just a myth."
"Stake through the heart?"
"Yes, well... who wouldn't that kill?"

Doomboy911
2013-01-22, 10:03 PM
The problem with that is that it gets old really fast. It sounds good in theory, but in practice it just comes down to the GM hitting the "you lose" button in every adventure to make things "challenging". Why do they need to be taken down quickly? Take a note from the Incredibles: "When everyone is super, no one is." If their enemies are all superpowered too, then it doesn't really matter how powerful they are. Everyone is working on the same scale. Kryptonites are really cheap limitations. There's no dilemma for the players to solve. It's just "the same, but harder" or "you lose now, try again later".

It's much more interesting to challenge them by just giving them problems that their powers can't solve directly. Instead of "You're super strong, but now you can't lift this bus full of orphans because it has kryptonite on it," do something like "You're super strong, but the orphanage is facing bankruptcy. You can't punch out their bill collectors to make this problem go away, Captain Hero."



I bet he'll love being in the same party with the Archangel.



Not much of an archangel if he needs an item to have any power. More like Iron Man with a sword instead of a suit. Can he do anything interesting without the sword? If not, then taking away the sword will just be a "you lose" button instead of an interesting challenge. It's boring.



Do you know why you never see any fey around? Because iron is everywhere! The cold iron weakness of fey wasn't made up to limit their power. It's to explain why humans rule the world and fey are never seen even though they have all kinds of magical powers: they became completely powerless when the bronze age ended. I'm sure she'll love hanging out with Titan, especially when he starts drawing in every magnetic bit of metal in the area.



See every internet discussion ever about M Night Shyamalan's movie "Signs" for why weakness to water is an extremely stupid idea for anyone who wants to do anything on the planet Earth.



They're hurt by the same things as everyone else. They're shapeshifters, but not the super-regenerating kind. They're like Mystique, but not as good at it: they can look like anyone they want, but they can't get rid of their tails. Not a terribly huge flaw.



With the invention of plumbing, running water is a lot more common.



Some people have suggested freezing, but that just makes me think of Dracula in "Hotel Transylvania".

"Garlic?"
"That's just a myth."
"Stake through the heart?"
"Yes, well... who wouldn't that kill?"

1. Captain hero could totally punch away bills but not until he's done making out with foxxy love and xandir.

2. Yes more complicated problems that can't be solved with superpowers are interesting but in this setting such things as the orphanage is closing down or something isn't quite their place they're all members of a government funded league of heroes.

3. Think of the archangels sword as the green lantern ring. It's the source of his power and without it he has to rely on himself and not a power given by god. I intend to have this come about to challenge him to make sure he thinks.

4. Yes fey cold iron but this is more of she has to be touched by this stuff for their to be a reaction and even then it's more like a hot poker against the skin. It hurts and with vigorous application could hurt her.

5. The one little issue with that argument is it's a invasion for the aliens where they're surrounded now put that for one person and think about how many times they see a large body of water in a day. Honestly think about it how much does it rain each week in say Pittsburgh. Not much now say the rainy season comes about he can just take a vacation. While he does have this weakness he doesn't let it stop him he ensures that he carries around the necessary weaponry should his powers decide to fail him.

6.Lets assume this water has to be ground level not just water running below. I believe it's in some mythology that as long as there was a bridge or something running across the bridge they could pass.

TheThan
2013-01-23, 01:12 PM
I think you really need to sit down with the player of the ghost character's player and define exactly what a ghost can and canít do.

Different cultures believe ghosts are capable of different things. So itís likely you should be focusing on a culture or two to base the ghost character of. His powers list will determine what heís capable of, but what exactly are his limitations and his kryptonite?

Doomboy911
2013-01-23, 10:56 PM
Eh the ghost guy ain't a problem. I'm going to have a lot of restless spirits wandering around at night that if he wants to have them do any favors like poke their head inside a building or scout ahead he needs to talk with them. Considering that he's a smidge of a **** talking them into doing that stuff will be extra difficult. Now Stretch I think I'll run with an ice weakness. Considering that this game is being run in Pittsburgh cold weather, iron , and rain won't be hard to find. Am I right Pittsburghers or am I right?

Joe the Rat
2013-01-24, 12:11 PM
If you define the nature of Stretch's powers, the weaknesses fall into place. Cold is good for material and metabolic shifters, but heat works as well - Too hot, you fatigue/melt, too cold, you go torpor/freeze up. You can even have both (congratulations, you're exothermic!). Electricity causes morphic "muscle spasms", effectively paralyzing the shifter. He needs significant moisture to shift - or loses moisture when he does. Dry or drying environments can cause breakdowns. Lots of options there.

Another angle is that if he's still organic, he needs a lot of energy to fuel the shifting: Needs to consume X amount of food per day or he starts losing shifting ability, or increases risk of mode lock. Alternatively, he may require a specific substance to maintain his powers. This type of approach results in more of an endurance-run factor - it's not likely to cause problems unless situationally deprived of the needed factor for a long period.

ReaderAt2046
2013-01-24, 02:05 PM
The kandra shapeshifters of Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn Trilogy have a few major limitations, some or all of which may be helpful.

1. They don't naturally have any bones, and they can't shape bones for themselves, so they have to find bones from somewhere, either natural or artificial.

2. If they want to mimic a specific body they have to engulf and digest it to know precisely how to build it. They can try and make a generic body if they have some experience with that species, but it may come out looking a bit deformed.

3. Mass conservation.

Doomboy911
2013-01-25, 01:12 AM
So we decided on the weakness that during the cold he's at a -2 for shifting when it's hotter out he has to spend more power points to keep cool but he gets a +2 for shapeshifting. Best of all he has a weakness to electricity as it causes muscle spasms.

Doomboy911
2013-02-02, 12:47 AM
Welp special thanks to all that helped if you want to see how the campaign goes I'll be posting it along with art and photos here. http://doomboy911.tumblr.com/