Druid spells for one who keeps getting caught with their pants down

[Kazyan]

Yeah, I'm playing a Tier 1 and I'm having trouble. Shame.

Look, the party covers four of the tiers--Druid/Sorcerer/Dread Necro/Warmage/DM-and-player-secret--and Magic Missle was a very popular option when our band of five Level 2 characters walked into a CR ~6 encounter. (We had a ring of "change your size as a standard action", but it was in a dungeon.) We're not terribly optimized, except for the Dread Necromancer, and the DM's kid gloves are thick.

But, gosh darn it, I keep getting separated from my nice things! We've had at least 4 encounters so far, and neither my animal cohort nor wild cohort were able to do anything in any of them. (Goblins on the 20' tall roof, Colossal dude that my DM gave me a hinting "what would your wolves do?" for, creepy dream sequence thing where they wouldn't leave the party's wagon and got separated from me, dungeon involving an invisible wall of force platform maze over a bottomless pit that the wolves wouldn't step onto.) Half of them were partially my fault for not being stubborn about keeping them, but I'm confused about what to do when I lose access to my good class feature and feat all the time, and then not being able to use Entangle for lack of plants when we come up against powerful, yet kid-gloved, enemies. The Warmage and Dread Necromancer are the most damagetacular members fo the party right now. No, we don't have debuffs or save-or-X. We're level 2 and everyone likes Magic Missle.

Any ideas? SNA 1 helped after the level-up, but I'm still operating on waaaay reduced effectiveness. I'm wielding a Harpoon (nonproficiently for now) to do some debuffing, but I can't approach anything without it eating my 13 HP. The ring is a very nice toy, but it belongs to the Dread Necromancer.

No, I'm not going to leave the DM, before you suggest that. It's fun. I just want to feel less like a water balloon full of orisons.

When I get EWP (Harpoon) and Bite of the Wererat, I'm going to stabinate, like, everything.

[Acanous]

1: Don't take EWP Harpoon. It's not going to help you in the long run.
What you want instead, when the option opens up, is Natural Spell.
Your DM is obviously trying to keep your companions out of the fight for now- probably because you would steal all of the glory from your compatriots.
From your post, I am assuming here that you are lv 2.

When you cget access to Wildshape, you can pretty much just laugh.

If you can retrain feats, swap that extra wild cohort for Spell Focus (Conjuration), then Augment Summoning next level.
It'll make your summoned monsters more beefy, and it's something your DM can deal with.
For the moment, though, your DM needs to seperate you from your wolves in order for there to be a challenge for the other players. It sucks, but throw him a bone here. You'll be dominating the REST of the game, from about lv 6 onward.

[Kazyan]

1: Don't take EWP Harpoon. It's not going to help you in the long run.
What you want instead, when the option opens up, is Natural Spell.
Your DM is obviously trying to keep your companions out of the fight for now- probably because you would steal all of the glory from your compatriots.
From your post, I am assuming here that you are lv 2.

When you cget access to Wildshape, you can pretty much just laugh.

If you can retrain feats, swap that extra wild cohort for Spell Focus (Conjuration), then Augment Summoning next level.
It'll make your summoned monsters more beefy, and it's something your DM can deal with.
For the moment, though, your DM needs to seperate you from your wolves in order for there to be a challenge for the other players. It sucks, but throw him a bone here. You'll be dominating the REST of the game, from about lv 6 onward.

When you put it that way, I can deal. Maybe just Produce Flame at things?

Sidenote: I've agreed beforehand to trade Wild Shape for the Aspect of Nature variant. Yeah, yeah, terrible trade, but I don't want to obsolete everyone. Ergo, harpoon and 15 Str.

[Spuddles]

Bummer your DM is making up rules to get rid of both your only class feature that is really working atm, AND a feat. Note that you can handle animal to push them to do something they wouldn't do, DC20, and you get a +4 on with your animal companion. You can also take 10 or 20 on this roll.

But whatever.

Do you have spell compendium?

[Sith_Happens]

Bummer your DM is making up rules to get rid of both your only class feature that is really working atm, AND a feat. Note that you can handle animal to push them to do something they wouldn't do, DC20, and you get a +4 on with your animal companion. You can also take 10 or 20 on this roll.

But whatever.

Yeah, I'd suggest having another look over the Handle Animal rules in general. They're pretty important for making sure your animal companion does anything useful.

[Darrin]

All prepared spellcasters are going to run into "I didn't prepare for that" moments. Such is Vancian casting. My general advice for Druidzilla Spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12183941&postcount=4).



Goblins on the 20' tall roof


SNA might have been able to put a wolf on the roof for a round or two, or an eagle might get in a couple lucky hits. However, this sounds more like a "pull out your sling and find some cover" moment.

What sourcebooks do you have available?

Some other ideas:

Obscuring Mist (Core). Can't see your target, can't shoot. Or you could stand in a square at the edge of the mist: you get concealment (20% miss chance), goblins don't.

Cloudburst (Spell Compendium, Dru 1). -4 penalty to ranged attacks.

Conjure Ice Beast I (Frostburn). Plunk down an ice wolf on the roof with cold aura: 1d6 cold damage in a 10' burst as a free action every round.



Colossal dude that my DM gave me a hinting "what would your wolves do?"


My first thought was "trip attacks", but that would probably get you killed... size and Strength bonus would give this dude a colossal advantage. Actually, you can't even trip something beyond one size category from your own. Second choice would probably be "run away". Maybe entangle plus lassos, and hope he has a low Dex... maybe speed is slow, so kite him by moving back + ranged attacks... no, I think I'm going back to the "run away" option.



creepy dream sequence thing where they wouldn't leave the party's wagon and got separated from me


Hmm. Not sure there's anything you can do about a Dream Sequence other than hope the DM makes his point quickly and gives back some semblance of player agency.



dungeon involving an invisible wall of force platform maze over a bottomless pit that the wolves wouldn't step onto.)


Flour pouches. Lots and lots of flour. Very cheap (1 SP, Dungeonscape), although dirt is even cheaper. Torch Bug Paste (25 GP, Complete Scoundrel) is more expensive, maybe "paint" a path across, but much more effective against invisible creatures: it negates concealment with a non-magical faerie fire effect.

If your DM is putting these types of things into the game to challenge the players to come up with clever solutions, then good for him. If he's doing it deliberately to sandbag one of your signature class features, then I'd call shenanigans on him and ask for a private chat to hash out what his damage over this is. If he's deliberately trying to nerf you, then I'd ask him to houserule an ACF substitution that you can both agree would be fun and balanced, or ask to switch your animal companion/wild cohort to something that's not as easy to separate from you: eagle, dire bat, dire eagle, dire hawk, etc. (If "Druids are OP" is his issue, maybe switch to Spirit Shaman?)



not being able to use Entangle for lack of plants when we come up against powerful, yet kid-gloved, enemies.


Do you have access to Complete Scoundrel? If so, start with spore field. This creates fungi, fungi = plants (DMG p. 76), plants = entangle-able environment.

Another entangle-alternative: impeding stones from Cityscape. 40' radius, targets in area must Ref save vs. fall prone. Each round, they must make a Ref save or Balance check vs. falling prone. The Balance check requirement means that unless they have 5 ranks in Balance, they are considered flat-footed. Also, even if they do make their Ref save/Balance check, all creatures in the affected area take a -2 penalty to attacks, and spellcasters have to make a Concentration check to cast.



Any ideas? SNA 1 helped after the level-up, but I'm still operating on waaaay reduced effectiveness. I'm wielding a Harpoon (nonproficiently for now) to do some debuffing, but I can't approach anything without it eating my 13 HP.


If you're looking to debuff, try switching to a net or lasso. Yes, they're exotic, but they hit on a ranged touch attack instead of the usual ranged attack. Wood wose (Spell Compendium) can retrieve and fold thrown nets. Razor nets (Dragon Compendium) may do some damage when the target attempts to get out.

If funds are available, stock up on acid flasks and alchemist's fire (or max out Craft: Alchemy ASAP). These are also ranged touch attacks, but you're automatically proficient with thrown splash weapons (PHB p. 158). If range becomes an issue, see if you can get your hands on some acid/flame bullets for your sling (A&EG p. 33, -2 attack penalty), or launch the flasks with a gnome calculus (A&EG p. 6), which is exotic but increases the range increment to 50' (250' max).

[Kazyan]

SNA might have been able to put a wolf on the roof for a round or two, or an eagle might get in a couple lucky hits. However, this sounds more like a "pull out your sling and find some cover" moment.

What sourcebooks do you have available?

Clever. *mentally notes* They ambushed me, then won initiative. I totally would have lobbed a freaking harpoon at them if I weren't at -1 HP when I finally got a turn.

Most books are available. Exceptions are basically Complete Champion (we don't like it), setting books, BoVD, Dragon content, and the subsystem books. (MoI/ToM/probably ToB? have to check the 'allowed' list again)


Some other ideas:

Obscuring Mist (Core). Can't see your target, can't shoot. Or you could stand in a square at the edge of the mist: you get concealment (20% miss chance), goblins don't.

Cloudburst (Spell Compendium, Dru 1). -4 penalty to ranged attacks.

Conjure Ice Beast I (Frostburn). Plunk down an ice wolf on the roof with cold aura: 1d6 cold damage in a 10' burst as a free action every round.

I'm totally memorizing Conjure Ice Beast I next time! Obscuring Mist should help, too.


My first thought was "trip attacks", but that would probably get you killed... size and Strength bonus would give this dude a colossal advantage. Actually, you can't even trip something beyond one size category from your own. Second choice would probably be "run away". Maybe entangle plus lassos, and hope he has a low Dex... maybe speed is slow, so kite him by moving back + ranged attacks... no, I think I'm going back to the "run away" option.

Yeah, one of them ran and a I Handle Animal'd one into staying, yet not doing anything useful.

Dude was huge, but I lobbed a freaking harppon at him along with the Magic Missle and we took him out. Dread Necromancer ate a boot blade to the face and survived because the DM forgot about Str to damage, but we got out fine otherwise. The Tier 5-ish party member hid under a wagon the whole time.


Hmm. Not sure there's anything you can do about a Dream Sequence other than hope the DM makes his point quickly and gives back some semblance of player agency.

I had no idea it was a dream sequence until I woke up, actually. It was a total mindscrew that earned me a point of taint after stabbing someone I thought was the source of the mindscrew. (We're using HoH taint rules for this campaign.)


Flour pouches. Lots and lots of flour. Very cheap (1 SP, Dungeonscape), although dirt is even cheaper. Torch Bug Paste (25 GP, Complete Scoundrel) is more expensive, maybe "paint" a path across, but much more effective against invisible creatures: it negates concealment with a non-magical faerie fire effect.

Good idea. Shax's Haversack item, right? I used dirt a few times, but we eventually left it to the Dread Necro tapping her way around with a ten foot pole and me+wolves holding onto the other end of a rope.

We're about to get some gold, so I'll buy basically everything I'm allowed from Shax's Haversack at that point.


If your DM is putting these types of things into the game to challenge the players to come up with clever solutions, then good for him. If he's doing it deliberately to sandbag one of your signature class features, then I'd call shenanigans on him and ask for a private chat to hash out what his damage over this is. If he's deliberately trying to nerf you, then I'd ask him to houserule an ACF substitution that you can both agree would be fun and balanced, or ask to switch your animal companion/wild cohort to something that's not as easy to separate from you: eagle, dire bat, dire eagle, dire hawk, etc. (If "Druids are OP" is his issue, maybe switch to Spirit Shaman?)

I don't know what he's doing, but it's been really fun so far. I just want to feel like I'm contibuting.


Do you have access to Complete Scoundrel? If so, start with spore field. This creates fungi, fungi = plants (DMG p. 76), plants = entangle-able environment.

Another entangle-alternative: impeding stones from Cityscape. 40' radius, targets in area must Ref save vs. fall prone. Each round, they must make a Ref save or Balance check vs. falling prone. The Balance check requirement means that unless they have 5 ranks in Balance, they are considered flat-footed. Also, even if they do make their Ref save/Balance check, all creatures in the affected area take a -2 penalty to attacks, and spellcasters have to make a Concentration check to cast.

...I think I like Impeding Stones better than Entangle. Nice find!


If you're looking to debuff, try switching to a net or lasso. Yes, they're exotic, but they hit on a ranged touch attack instead of the usual ranged attack. Wood wose (Spell Compendium) can retrieve and fold thrown nets. Razor nets (Dragon Compendium) may do some damage when the target attempts to get out.

If funds are available, stock up on acid flasks and alchemist's fire (or max out Craft: Alchemy ASAP). These are also ranged touch attacks, but you're automatically proficient with thrown splash weapons (PHB p. 158). If range becomes an issue, see if you can get your hands on some acid/flame bullets for your sling (A&EG p. 33, -2 attack penalty), or launch the flasks with a gnome calculus (A&EG p. 6), which is exotic but increases the range increment to 50' (250' max).

This is clever. Note to self: actually get a sling...

[Spuddles]

Get a tower shield. Even though you are not proficient, you can still use it for cover. Full cover meana you cannot be targeted by non-spell attacks. When you want to attack, drop your shield as a free action.

With your strength, you should take advantage of your carrying capacity and possess a net or two, a tower shield, a heavy wood shield, a club, a scimitar, a sling, and a dagger. Sling is decent choice with 15str.

Hide armor, heavy wood shield, and shillelagh lets you mix it up in melee reasonably well. With wolves flanking and tripping, it should work even better.

SNA at levels 1 & 2 isn't worth it, imo, because your animals dont last long enough.

Goodberry is a great spell to cast on off time. If you get a rest day, use it to make goodberries.

Magic stone and a sling offers reasonably good ranged DPS, if you need it. If it turns out you don't need it, you can always SNA something. Can SNA get you a badger? Badgers burrow, and leave tunnels, which means they can sometimes get under walls or doors.

Produce flame geta good around level 3. It's pretty decent damage.

Animate Fire/Wood/Watee from SpC can get you a fire elemental/animated object/water elemental, respectively. Those can be fairly useful, depending on the situation.

Sandblast, from SpC is a ten foot radius burst, centered on you, that does 1d6 nonlethal and stuns those that fail their save for a round.

Wood Wose is basically an unseen servant, and can help out in using mundane items like carrying a torch or drawing a chalkline.