[3.5] Epic Fiendbinder

[GreenSerpent]

Greetings,

Can anyone suggest to me some suitable epic-level demons for use in making a Fiendbinder epic progression for a level 60 Gestalt game? I'm mostly doing it for fun, so please no comments about how epic is broken or how they'll be completely useless - it's for fun.

Currently my plan is as below:

Level 11: Hellfire Engine (FC2, CR 19)?
Level 12: Dark Balor (MM & ToM, CR 20/21)?
Level 13: Wyrm Chole Dragon (Dragon Magazine #344, CR 23)?
Level 14: Infernal (ELH, CR 26)?
Level 15: Paragon Goristo (ELH & FC1, CR 28)?
Level 16: ???
Level 17: ???
Level 18: ???
Level 19: ???
Level 20: ???

Any suggestions? A good spread of types would be ideal, as well as keeping loosely to the Fiendbinder theme.

[Psyren]

I would imagine an epic Fiendbinder would embark on a quest to learn the truenames of truly singular fiends like the Lords of Nine, or at the very least the truenames of their avatars. You could then have a very interesting situation where the archdevil and the epic fiendbinder struggle to control the avatar - the archdevil doing so via his/her innate connection to it, and the fiendbinder by warping the cosmos around it through Truespeak.

I can't think of a way to make this sort of thing dangerous or nuanced enough to feel epic though. A binary pass/fail check (as with 90% of truespeak) doesn't seem to capture the danger enough; maybe a complex skill check?

Failure should also have rather spectacular consequences, though making them instantly fatal seems a bit unfair. Maybe have the archdevil not automatically know who is monkeying with their control, or even not automatically know what their avatar is up to.

[Flickerdart]

Fiendbinders bind their fiends permanently, and permanently stealing the avatar of Archfiends might not be the best plan, but I could see a new class feature (perhaps an utterance) that allows powerful Fiendbinders to usurp the avatars temporarily. At level 60 though, a Fiendbinder should be able to just snap up these unique fiends themselves, because he's so much more powerful.

[GreenSerpent]

Level 60 who spends most of his time as a Chronotryn via DMM Persisted Supernatural Shapechange (Dweomerkeeper, I love thou).

[Gazzien]

First: I agree on working with Avatars of the Nine... and (possibly) even the Nine themselves; I can't remember exactly how strong they are/ what the limits are, but at level 60, it might be possible with optimization/stacking.

Second: Level 60 Gestalt game? Who was amazing enough to even consider it, and where can I join one? :smalltongue: My group barely hits 14-16 before we stop from DMFiat...

[GreenSerpent]

Well, my current plan for him is *deep breath*:

On one side of the gestalt Cloistered Cleric/Walker in the Waste/Contemplative/Fiendbinder/Cosmic Descryer?/Epic Fiendbinder/Dweomerkeeper/Divine Oracle/something

On the other Binder/Sorceror/Incantatrix/Abjurant Champion/Ardent Dilettante/Anima Mage/Mindbender/Archmage/something.

I'm also trying to work in Shadowcaster, and I'm considering changing Sorceror for Psion (because I like psions).

@Gazzien - It's an arena sort, with a few house-rules on Epic stuff (dual-progression classes are allowed, for one). Also, double feats at each level and some other stuff. Though once I finish my homebrew world-and-semi-rules-rewrite...

PM me and I'll send you a link.

[mregecko]

Just wanted to throw out for the build, Walker in the Waste does open you up to Turn Undead vulnerability... if it's an arena, it may not be a big deal, but if someone could specialize against your build... It's way easier to optimize Turning ($$$) than Turn Resistance (feats)