[3.5] [E6] Solutions to Death

[Mr Tumnus]

Are there any legitimate ways to bring people back to life while only having access to 6th level class features? We're in a game of E6, where the level cap is 6th level and we're doing pretty well for ourselves, it's just that when we get thrown a curveball we sometimes are unable to handle it and some of our more vulnerable characters get dropped low enough that death is a concern.

Is there a reasonable way to raise people at this level? Maybe a prestige combination or a way to get spells early? I'm looking for a solution with as little cheese as possible, I know about some of the combos with DMM heighten spell and things like that but I'd like to present as reasonable a solution as possible.

The DM Allows just about any Official WotC source (including Dragon Mag) but if there are reprints anywhere the most recent print is used.

Thanks.

[Crake]

When it comes to e6, every game is different and it will have to be something you need to ask your DM about. With only 6 levels there's only so much cheese you can pull, but even then, getting 4th level spells for raise dead can be hard.

Edit: To clarify, as far as i know theres no legitimate way to get resurrection spells, but the DM can homebrew feats to give you access to them

[HunterOfJello]

Incantations from Unearthed Arcana. They allow you to use higher level spells at lower levels at the cost of higher material component costs, MUCH longer casting times (1 hour+), possible necessity of secondary casters, and high knowledge checks to get them to work.


Incantations work very well in E6 games.

[Fable Wright]

A Dread Necromancer, Warmage, or Beguiler with Arcane Disciple (Renewal) and Versatile Spellcaster can Reincarnate dead party members.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A custom Incantation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm). It would definitely be specific to the individual to be brought back, take several weeks to research, and have a cost (research+components) proportionate to the equivalent spell's costly components.

Take Ancestral Relic (BoED), make the base item a staff. Each time you upgrade it, you can completely change what it is as long as the base item can be that. You can make it any item you want within the cost limitation. It retains value, and you meditate for one day (rather 8 hours of one day) per 1,000 gp sacrificed to upgrade it. If you change its magical properties into that of an item with a value equal to or lesser than the current magical properties' value, you would sacrifice zero gold and thus meditate for zero days (or 8 hours if your DM rules a one day minimum).

Everyone in the party carries an Oil of Gentle Repose (300 gp, 3 day duration). If anyone dies, whoever is closest douses them in the oil within one round. Within that duration, get some time to meditate and modify your Ancestral Relic. Make it a +1/+1 Staff of Revivify (SC) at caster level 9 that takes 50 charges per use, which will have a value of only 1337 gp 5 sp (appropriate). That's how much its stored value will be reduced by when that charge is used. After using that you can meditate again to change it back, though you'll have to dump some cash into it unless you've got a stored value above your level-based limit. That gives you what may as well be a True Resurrection if used within three days of death for only 1,637.5 gp.

[Mr Tumnus]

When it comes to e6, every game is different and it will have to be something you need to ask your DM about. With only 6 levels there's only so much cheese you can pull, but even then, getting 4th level spells for raise dead can be hard.

Edit: To clarify, as far as i know theres no legitimate way to get resurrection spells, but the DM can homebrew feats to give you access to them

The power is very high for E6. 4th level spells are the soft cap instead of 3rd's with 4th's being accessible via scrolls made by artificers. Keep in mind that Raise Dead is a 5th level spell though.

He has ruled that there's a hard cap of CL 8 for magic items though so keep that in mind.

We do have an immediate solution to death (wand of close wounds) where we can bring them back if we act immediately but sometimes circumstances may prevent us from aiding fallen allies. I'm looking for a way to actually bring people back who have been dead for a little while.

[Mr Tumnus]

I actually found a reasonable workaround.

The GM has axed Reincarnation but I've since learned about Raise Ghost which allows you to raise a dead person as a ghost. They're then incorporeal ghosts until you cast Forced Manifestation on them at which point they become solid. It only lasts for rounds/level but when they're manifested you can lasso them with a continuous item of Forced Manifestation so, as long as they're still wearing the item, they're for all intents and purposes alive.

[Mithril Leaf]

I actually found a reasonable workaround.

The GM has axed Reincarnation but I've since learned about Raise Ghost which allows you to raise a dead person as a ghost. They're then incorporeal ghosts until you cast Forced Manifestation on them at which point they become solid. It only lasts for rounds/level but when they're manifested you can lasso them with a continuous item of Forced Manifestation so, as long as they're still wearing the item, they're for all intents and purposes alive.

Actually it lets you raise ghosts as ghosts. Outsiders have a similar spell. No such luck.

[Eurus]

Actually it lets you raise ghosts as ghosts. Outsiders have a similar spell. No such luck.

It... resurrects destroyed ghosts? That seems like a bizarrely specific spell. Isn't Revive Undead a thing already?

[Mr Tumnus]

Actually it lets you raise ghosts as ghosts. Outsiders have a similar spell. No such luck.


As raise dead, except that this spell can bring back only a ghost who has been killed. It does not restore life to a dead body, but instead brings back a slain ghost as a ghost. The spell requires some of the ghost's original ectoplasm (some of the ghost's ectoplasm that has been preserved with magic or alchemy is sufficient).

Alternatively, you may cast it on a dead creature's body to bring it back as a ghost. The creature's soul is aware that it will return as a ghost instead of a living creature and can refuse to accept the spell if it does not want this to happen.

This form of the spell works only on creatures that can become ghosts.
As with other forms of this magic, if cast within the Manifest Ward, a raised ghost does not lose a level or a Constitution point when brought back from the dead.

Reread the spell.


It... resurrects destroyed ghosts? That seems like a bizarrely specific spell. Isn't Revive Undead a thing already?

Does no one read the actual spell? You use it to turn a dead ally into a ghost and then allow that ghost to become real via forced manifestation.

[andromax]

It's not a terrible idea.. but is bringing a PC back worth the cost of a 120k item? Moreover.. is an item of that value even creatable with a CL of only 8? Unlikely.
Although, if we go by the pricing guidelines in the DMG we will find plenty of magic items that have been printed that are much cheaper or more expensive than they should be, so it's not gospel.

It'd be much more likely for a large guild of clerics to be able to collectively cast a single 4th level spell than to create an item like that, in an E6 game.

IMO, just grieve for you character, and have a backup ready to be introduced.

[Seer_of_Heart]

Hmm, depending on how much cheese your dm is allowing you could be a dwk white dragonspawn loredrake for 5th level spells at ecl 6 with la buyoff. Then find a way to get raise dead added to your spell list, there is probably a domain out there with it.

[TypoNinja]

A Monadic Deva, from the Fiend Folio is a 6HD outsider with raise dead 1/day. Page 55-56.

Once again, if you can't cast it, summon something that does. Lesser Planar Ally is a 4th level spell, and you can secure a scroll of it.

[Mr Tumnus]

A Monadic Deva, from the Fiend Folio is a 6HD outsider with raise dead 1/day. Page 55-56.

Once again, if you can't cast it, summon something that does. Lesser Planar Ally is a 4th level spell, and you can secure a scroll of it.


Hmm, depending on how much cheese your dm is allowing you could be a dwk white dragonspawn loredrake for 5th level spells at ecl 6 with la buyoff. Then find a way to get raise dead added to your spell list, there is probably a domain out there with it.

Thanks guys, I'll take a look at these.

[Mr Adventurer]

The Hollyphant in Book of Exalted Deeds is another 6HD outsider (a celestial) which can Raise Dead.

(It can also do a bunch of other stuff, their spell-likes and psionics are pretty crazy for a 6 HD creature...)

[Psyren]

An incantation is by far the easiest solution (and the one that leads to the most roleplay.) If your DM doesn't want them then he probably doesn't want resurrection at all and you should reroll.

[absolmorph]

Incantations from Unearthed Arcana. They allow you to use higher level spells at lower levels at the cost of higher material component costs, MUCH longer casting times (1 hour+), possible necessity of secondary casters, and high knowledge checks to get them to work.


Incantations work very well in E6 games.
For reference, turning Ressurection into an incantation gives you a base DC of 30 (Conjuration).
-2 for expensive material component (5,000/10,000 gp of diamonds and holy water), -1 for using multiple skills, -1 for a skill not on the Wizard list (Heal), -2 to make it a touch spell, for a total of -6, putting it at a DC of 24. Optional additional reducers include 1-10 secondary casters (-2), 2d6 backlash damage (-1 per 2d6), making the caster exhausted (-2), negative levels on the caster (-2 per negative level), and having an hour between skill checks (-1).

Making the spellcaster exhausted drops the skill DC to 22. We'll say 3 Heal checks, 2 Knowledge (Religion) checks, and 2 Spellcraft checks. I wouldn't consider it out of line to ignore the reduction from Heal not being on the Wizard skill list, which sets the DC at 23.

You can up the material component up to 25,000 gp to get an additional -2 (or increase it to 10,000 to match Ressurection without any additional reductions).

Your DM can require a special location be used, like a stone circle, or a rune circle of healing from Races of Stone, to make it harder to use the ritual at-will. Stuff like that's probably the best way to limit the use of incantations so they're not abused.

Basically, it's not a super easy thing, but it's something that can be used in E6. And including the level loss is up to the DM.

[Ravens_cry]

Incantations sound like a nice way from both a crunch and fluff perspective, keeping resurrection of the dead special while still allowing it as a possibility.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Hmm, depending on how much cheese your dm is allowing you could be a dwk white dragonspawn loredrake for 5th level spells at ecl 6 with la buyoff. Then find a way to get raise dead added to your spell list, there is probably a domain out there with it.

Not quite this much.


An incantation is by far the easiest solution (and the one that leads to the most roleplay.) If your DM doesn't want them then he probably doesn't want resurrection at all and you should reroll.

Incantations are allowed in my game, with severe caveats (they are not common knowledge, or even uncommon knowledge; learning how to do an incantation is an adventure unto itself). Basically, somebody who can actually raise the dead or thereabouts is so rare and extraordinary that they are mostly thought of as myths, and small religions arise to worship the people believed to be able to do it (sound familiar? :smallwink:). It's still possible, but a far cry from a set of skill checks with an instruction manual available for checkout at the local library.

[andromax]

I noticed a couple spells in complete divine that are 4th level.

Druid resurrection that could work pretty well. A druid spell (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-divine--56/last-breath--723/), It has to be cast within 1 round of death.

And A cleric spell (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-divine--56/revenance--660/), which doesn't work by itself, but could extend the amount of time you could take for the former.

[Psyren]

Incantations are allowed in my game, with severe caveats (they are not common knowledge, or even uncommon knowledge; learning how to do an incantation is an adventure unto itself). Basically, somebody who can actually raise the dead or thereabouts is so rare and extraordinary that they are mostly thought of as myths, and small religions arise to worship the people believed to be able to do it (sound familiar? :smallwink:). It's still possible, but a far cry from a set of skill checks with an instruction manual available for checkout at the local library.

You mean you have to go on a quest and roleplay to get what you want? The horror! :smalltongue:

To clarify, I wasn't suggesting that acquiring or even performing the incantation should be easy; rather, I was saying that was the easiest way for the DM to add specific high-powered spells to a low-powered game without opening any floodgates. If the DM wants to stick a long lost strip of parchment in a trap-filled pyramid behind a riddling sphinx, I have no problem with it; so long as it's in the game at all, you can get to it eventually, or at least have fun trying.

[Mr Adventurer]

The only problem with elaborate quests to raise the dead is what does the player of the dead character do while everyone else is having an awesome time raiding the Lost Library of Death? And does his character miss out on the XP from that adventure? And, death in D&D can be fairly common - just an unlucky greataxe crit at low levels or a failed save against a Symbol of Death trap at high levels. Do the players have to go through all that every time?

[Flickerdart]

The only problem with elaborate quests to raise the dead is what does the player of the dead character do while everyone else is having an awesome time raiding the Lost Library of Death? And does his character miss out on the XP from that adventure? And, death in D&D can be fairly common - just an unlucky greataxe crit at low levels or a failed save against a Symbol of Death trap at high levels. Do the players have to go through all that every time?
Comes back as a ghost (LA+5 is a bit tricky though) and helps the party get the junk that is necessary for them to be resurrected?

[Psyren]

The only problem with elaborate quests to raise the dead is what does the player of the dead character do while everyone else is having an awesome time raiding the Lost Library of Death? And does his character miss out on the XP from that adventure? And, death in D&D can be fairly common - just an unlucky greataxe crit at low levels or a failed save against a Symbol of Death trap at high levels. Do the players have to go through all that every time?

There are easy solutions to all of these concerns.
- What does the deceased player do: off the top of my head are some easy solutions. (a) A special NPC holds the knowledge of or key to the incantation; s/he offers to accompany the PCs, and the dead player gets to run that character (or their bodyguard, if a martial type is preferred) as they lead the party to its goal. This can also result in a great many hooks later depending on why that character wants the ritual and why they're willing to help you (or desperate to rely on you) to acquire it. (b) In a world where death can only be overcome by ritual, the afterlife need not function the same was as standard D&D; the dead PC could still be lingering around, perhaps as a spirit or within an item/weapon carried by one of the living party members. Give him some specific and limited powers for the duration of the side trip until the ritual is performed and his body restored.

- Does he get XP - The beauty of incantations is that everything is up to the DM; you can have XP gained using one of the above methods transfer to the raised character, or you could have the ritual itself bring the player back halfway between levels (or with no level loss at all but no extra benefits) etc. The possibilities are wide open.

- Do they have to go through that every time - that's up to the DM also. For a grittier game you could have the ritual be usable only once, or for slightly less gritty, once per character (Dragonballs!) with subsequent deaths requiring a reroll. Or you can make the ritual reusable, and once the PCs acquire it, they can perform it multiple times. You can still make it more restrictive than simply preparing it in a slot by requiring exotic materials (more exotic than X amount of diamonds) that must be located, a particular celestial event or other timing limitation, imposing a cooldown of some kind... again, the sky is the limit.


The underlying point here is that high-level magic is kept out of E6 for a reason, but doing so can cut the PCs off from valuable utility effects; Incantations allow the DM a way to reintroduce that, and the freedom from a traditional magic framework to balance it properly against the desired power level of the rest of the setting.

[Tvtyrant]

The only problem with elaborate quests to raise the dead is what does the player of the dead character do while everyone else is having an awesome time raiding the Lost Library of Death? And does his character miss out on the XP from that adventure? And, death in D&D can be fairly common - just an unlucky greataxe crit at low levels or a failed save against a Symbol of Death trap at high levels. Do the players have to go through all that every time?

Have them play a temporary character until their character returns? An adventurer looking for the same incantation would work, or a mercenary that works for a percentage of the booty. You might even use the cliche of having them returned temporarily to life in return for some favor to a specific god. Now you have a new plot hook after the revival and the player gets to remain involved!

[Lonely Tylenol]

The only problem with elaborate quests to raise the dead is what does the player of the dead character do while everyone else is having an awesome time raiding the Lost Library of Death? And does his character miss out on the XP from that adventure? And, death in D&D can be fairly common - just an unlucky greataxe crit at low levels or a failed save against a Symbol of Death trap at high levels. Do the players have to go through all that every time?

Roll a secondary character and play with that.

Yes, they do miss out on the XP from that adventure. At this point, however, the only thing this has an impact on is the quantity of feats they have (as everyone is 6th level +3 or more feats in).

Since this is an E6 game, there is only one save-or-death that really, truly exists in the world--Phantasmal Killer--and it is both unreliable and (almost) as rare as any method of raising the dead. I personally helped everyone build their characters (minus Mr Tumnus and the secondary character of one other) so that they were "accident-proof", so if somebody dies to "an unlucky greataxe crit", then either I have failed as the DM (by helping them build a lemon) or they have failed as the player (by being so vulnerable as to invite the situation).