Core Cleric Choices

[Cranthis]

So, I am making a cleric for a 3.5 game, starting at level 1. Now normally I wouldn't ask advice for simple core stuff, but I have never played a cleric of any kind.

We are starting with the class starting package, and we have 32 point buy, and its restricted to core only.

Currently I can't decide between a leader of men cleric or a necromancy cleric.
I have an idea of my point buys, but I would like to see what you guys have to say first.

Heck, even as I'm typing this, making a Paladin leader or Sorcadin gish comes to mind.

[Yora]

Don't try to heal allies faster than the enemies injure them. You will never be successful with that.
If you want to keep allies alive, help them to avoid being injured, either by using defensive spells or by helping to defeat the enemies quickly. If someone looks really bad and could be killed by a random arrow, cast one healing spell to patch him up and avoid needing a raise dead spell, but then focus back on defeating the enemies and have the severly injured ally fall back. Because as said, by the time you have him healed, your other allies will have taken a much worse beating.

[WinWin]

This looks familiar...


Core only?

Human Cleric.

No Deity. Domains: War and Luck or Trickery. Trickery if you have the intelligence to invest in the extra skills, otherwise Luck for the 1/day reroll.

Take Longbow as favoured weapon. Put skill ranks in Craft Bowyer/Fletcher and tell the DM your character made their own bow (so it falls within wealth allowence)

1.Point Blank Shot
1.Bonus: Weapon Focus Longbow
1.Bonus Human: Rapid Shot
3.Craft Wondrous
6.Craft Arms and Armour
9>Quicken,Extend

The arrows are just a fallback option when you are not spamming your best spells. Any cleric spell you can use to buff your melee power will also enhance ranged with the exception of bulls strength.

Forge bracers of archery as early as you can. Forge a mighty +1 composite bow at earliest opportunity. Add on special effects, then use Greater Magic Weapon for the improved base enhancement bonus. Forge a few + 1 arrows with different effects on them to your bow, for special opponents.

[Cranthis]

I don't believe I want to make a ranged Cleric.

[Ashtagon]

I don't believe I want to make a ranged Cleric.

Don;'t think of it as a ranged cleric. Think of it as a leader of elves.

[Cranthis]

Don;'t think of it as a ranged cleric. Think of it as a leader of elves.

I see what you did there.

[Vizzerdrix]

Most will disagree, but I've always been fond of using a large size morning star with Half Orc and going melee for clerics. Not the best, but good fun.

[Krazzman]

For melee cleric with buffing remember the minimum Wis needed is 13. (later you can get your 9th level spells via items/statboosts).

Focus on STR and Con. Int and Dex as you feel you need. Wis and Cha... I would say at least 14 both but only if you have the Points.

If the Starting Package means you get the feat those guys took then... you take that at first.
If you are Human, take a bonus feat. Improved Initiative is a good choice.

Grab Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Wondrous. In a Core Only you might need them. Additionally there is practically no feat that makes you worse and only a few make you actually better, Power Attack might be a good choice for level 3. If you want to go for summoning then take Spellfocus and Augment Summoning (unsure if this actually IS in Core as I am AFB).

With that low Wis, focus on Buffs and "healing".
Try to get the Planning Domain, if not possible, Strength and War were mentioned as "solid" IIRC.

Hope this helps.

[Telonius]

What's the composition of the rest of the group so far? (Also, how experienced are they with D&D?)

[ArcturusV]

Sadly, your team will likely throw a fit if you go Negative Energy. Least in my experience. I say sadly as I typically find outside of Cure _____ Wounds the Negative energy options to be much more interesting, and fun.

I take it this means you're stuck with mace, light crossbow, shield, scale mail. Scribe Scroll, and Alertness.

This isn't TOO bad. I'd wish I could switch out Alertness for something else. But scroll scribing it almost always a useful feat to have. Remember that making a scroll as a first level caster costs you 12 gp and 1 xp. It's a pittance with minimal investment you can end up doubling up your spell casting endurance.


If forced to pick out of the skill options they give you.. eh... I'd go Knowledge (Religion), Spellcraft, Heal. Particularly if you do go on the darker side of life.

Being stuck as a Pelor Worshiper would be... sad. I really don't like it. Being stuck with Good and Healing as your domains is painful to me. I would rather have Sun at least than Healing if you get stuck with that. Or just anything. They're two of my least favorite domains.

If you're not locked into the alignment/god/domains? I'd look to Knowledge. War is also a good choice, Sun isn't bad depending on campaign choices, same with the Elemental Domains. Luck is also a good call.

[Raimun]

Travel Domain is really good. It has pretty much the best power and the spells are all useful AND Clerics don't have them in their list.

Luck is always golden too. War is good if you want be a fighting Cleric. Trickery has nice spells. Magic lets you use Wiz/Sorc-scrolls and wands. Knowledge is power. Strength is solid. Animal has Shapechange.

[Gavinfoxx]

I like Human Trickery / Travel clerics. Wield a Morningstar two-handed (cold iron at start, upgrade to Adamantine later). Focus on buffs, both self and non-self. Get Quicken Spell later. Consider Exotic Weapon Proficiency Spiked Chain. Get a bunch of wands of Cure Light Wounds. Maybe get Craft Wondrous Item. Improved Initiative is good. Strength, Wis, and Con are important. Get a bunch of 50 gp (ie, caster level 1) potions of Enlarge Person. Consider getting Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. Pearl of Powers are good. Bead of Karma is good.

[Valdis]

Sadly, your team will likely throw a fit if you go Negative Energy. Least in my experience. I say sadly as I typically find outside of Cure _____ Wounds the Negative energy options to be much more interesting, and fun.


I agree 100%, that is why my clerics always seem to end up being evil :smallsmile:

[Gavinfoxx]

I agree 100%, that is why my clerics always seem to end up being evil :smallsmile:

Just say, "If you want healing, buy several wands of Cure Light Wounds. They are the cheapest way to heal. Otherwise, no healing."

[Piggy Knowles]

I once helped a friend with a character in an SRD-only online campaign. He wanted to play a cleric, but he didn't want to heal and he didn't want to imitate a fighter.

I gave him a list of interesting core cleric spells, broken down by level, that were NOT about self-buffs or heals. Here's the list, with some minor notes by me:


1-
Bless (moderate party buff)
Cause Fear (early level save debuff/save or suck)
Command (save or suck)
Deathwatch (cleric version of mindsight)
Obscuring Mist (BFC)
Prot/Alignment (excellent buff)

DOMAINS:
Entangle [Plant] (BFC)
Enlarge Person [Strength] (buff)
Longstrider [Travel] (buff)

2-
Augury (decent if you can get it without material components, not worth it otherwise)
Bear’s Endurance (healing spell that actually levels!)
Calm Emotions (save or suck)
Darkness (BFC)
Hold Person (save or lose)
Resist Energy (scaling defensive buff)
Shatter (utility)
Silence (debuff/utility)
Summon Monster II (BFC/offense)

DOMAINS:
Wind Wall [Air] (one level earlier than normal is always nice)
Detect Thoughts [Knowledge] (utility)
Barkskin [Plant] (buff)
Locate Object [Travel] (utility)
Invisibility [Trickery] (buff)
Fog Cloud [Water] (BFC)

3-
Animate Dead (a little bit of everything, easily abusable)
Dispel Magic (debuff)
Magic Circle/Alignment (buff)
Magic Vestment (buff)
Meld Into Stone (meh on its own, combines well with clairvoyance and similar issues)
Speak With Dead (utility; one of the most useful spells in the game)
Stone Shape (utility)
Summon Monster III (BFC/offense/utility)
Wind Wall (BFC/defensive buff - immunity to archers!)

DOMAINS:
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance [Knowledge] (utility, essential if you plan to stonemeld)
Fly [Travel] (buff/utility)

4-
Death Ward (defensive buff)
Dimensional Anchor (debuff)
Dismissal (save or lose)
Divination (absurd utility, gamebreaking depending on the DM)
Freedom of Movement (immunity to, um, a lot... great buff)
Greater Magic Weapon (buff, moneysaver)
Lesser Planar Ally (see if you can get a Nightmare sent to you)
Poison (offense/save or die, DC scales with caster level)
Sending (utility)
Summon Monster IV (BFC/utility/offense)

DOMAINS:
Summon Nature’s Ally IV [Animal] (offense/healing/utility)
Spike Stones [Earth] (BFC)
Dimension Door [Travel] (utility)


5-
Greater Command (kind of meh for the level, but has a cool feel to it)
Commune (better if you can get someone else to cast it for you, but it’s there when you need it)
Plane Shift (utility/save or lose... it’s like Slay Living, but dual purpose!)
Raise Dead (Animate Dead is cheaper... but I guess this comes in handy sometimes)
Summon Monster V (BFC/utility/offense)
True Seeing (utility)
Wall of Stone (BFC)

DOMAINS:
Control Winds [Air] (stop armies or destroy Kansas)
Commune with Nature [Animal] (divination/utility)
Wall of Thorns [Plant] (BFC... who needs Solid Fog?)
Teleport [Travel] (absurdly useful utility)
Ice Storm [Water] (BFC)

6-
Animate Objects (surprisingly good if you can get something that can utilize Blind, Constrict, Trample, etc. I suggest a boat.)
Blade Barrier (iconic, BFC)
Greater Dispel Magic (debuff)
Find the Path (utility - obviate the ranger and rogue with a single spell!)
Heal (...healing)
Heroes’ Feast (buff)
Planar Ally (DM dependent, but potentially pretty abusive)
Summon Monster VI (BFC/utility/offense)
Wind Walk (utility)
Word of Recall (utility)

DOMAINS:
Fire Seeds [Fire/Sun] (bombs away)
Hold Monster [Law] (save or lose)
Mislead [Luck/Trickery] (tricky little defensive buff)
Antimagic Field [Magic/Protection] (two levels early is pretty nice)

7-
Blasphemy/Dictum/Holy Word/Word of Chaos (ridiculous silliness)
Control Weather (destroy cities or armies)
Destruction (save or die)
Ethereal Jaunt (really, you should find some way to get a Nightmare for etherealness, but this works in a pinch)
Resurrection (again, Animate Dead is cheaper, but whatever, put it on a scroll)
Greater Scrying (way better than the standard version)
Summon Monster VII (BFC/utility/offense)

DOMAINS:
Animal Shapes [Animal] (buff)
Disintegrate [Destruction] (utility/blast)
Earthquake [Earth] (a level early makes this even better)
Fire Storm [Fire] (see above)
Greater Teleport [Travel] (utility)
Screen [Trickery] (somewhat necessary support spell)
Acid Fog [Water] (BFC)

8-
Antimagic Field (BFC/utility/debuff)
Dimensional Lock (utility)
Discern Location (utility)
Earthquake (BFC/utility, can function as a blast in a pinch)
Fire Storm (not a huge fan of these single-effect blasts, but the area on this one makes it worthwhile)
Greater Planar Ally (again, DM dependent, but potentially quite good)
Summon Monster VIII (BFC/utility/offense)

DOMAINS:
Whirlwind [Air] (I like Control Winds better, but this is cool)
Moment of Prescience [Luck] (absurdly good buff)
Mind Blank [Protection] (practically essential buff - find SOME way to get this spell)
Polymorph Any Object [Trickery] (utility, buff, save or die, you name it, this does it)

9-
Astral Projection (save game option, buff, travel, single-use item cloner... get it from a Nightmare if you can, but holy crap this one is good)
Etherealness (party friendly, necessary at times)
Gate (oh come on.)
Miracle (no, seriously, come on.)

(There are other decent spells at this level, but I really can’t see a reason to cast anything but these.)

DOMAINS:
Shapechange [Animal] (best buff in the game, bar none, and possibly the best spell in the game as far as actual use goes)
Foresight [Knowledge] (really, really useful)
Disjunction [Magic] (everyone hates it, but sometimes there’s no substitute)
Time Stop [Trickery] (yeah......)


He ended up going with a TN cleric, channeling negative energy, with the Earth and Fire domains. He focused on BFC and undead creation, as well as boosting his rebuke check as high as possible, rebuking as many baddies as he could. It was honestly a pretty fun character, and it was nice to see a core cleric do something other than Divine Power smash.

[Mordrigar]

Travel Domain.
Free choice. (Luck is suggested)
(Brandobaris is Faerunian deity who has both domains.) *

Full Plate. (Mechanus plate maybe?)
A Shield. (Anything helps)

Combat Expertise.

Magic Vestment. (Casted on both Shield and Armor)
Divine Power.
Ring of Blades.

Defending Weapon is optional. (Cast Magic Weapon for increased enhancement bonus)

It gives you high AC, a nice damage (doesn't matter if you can manage hit or not) immunity to grapple, entagle, etc.

Have high Con and Wis. (14~16) Your saves will be enough for most of the things.
For ref? Who needs reflex save? Traps? It's rogue's problem. Fireball? Didn't you cast your Protection From Fire / Resist Fire already?


With high AC and saves you'll be invulnerable. Some points of Diplomacy, decent Charisma score, and you're good to go.

"Behold the mighty *insert your character name here*!

*: Tymora and Oghma have both domains too.

[Gavinfoxx]

Defending works quite well on armor spikes... I'd go with Mithral Full Plate when you can afford it, breastplate before then... and I'd defiitely go without a shield, until you can get a (dancing/animated, I always forget which is the core one) shield. Two handed weapons are just so nice, especially reach weapons! Even Longspear...

[Valdis]

Just say, "If you want healing, buy several wands of Cure Light Wounds. They are the cheapest way to heal. Otherwise, no healing."

No, I'll heal sometimes... but only if it benefits ME, I'm evil afterall :smallsmile:
But yes, overall, if you want healing it would be best to bring some cure wands or potions, I'm not here to babysit.

[Gavinfoxx]

No, I'll heal sometimes... but only if it benefits ME, I'm evil afterall :smallsmile:
But yes, overall, if you want healing it would be best to bring some cure wands or potions, I'm not here to babysit.

Ewww potions suck. Every person gets one potion of cure light wounds, which has a purpose of 'saving their life'. Or, 'resuscitating the healer'. The rest is wands of cure light wounds...

[Valdis]

Ewww potions suck. Every person gets one potion of cure light wounds, which has a purpose of 'saving their life'. Or, 'resuscitating the healer'. The rest is wands of cure light wounds...

Yeah, potions do suck but at lower levels most can't afford a wand of cure light wounds or even use one.

I'll use a wand to heal, since it doesn't really take away from my own "personal" power. It's all about playing my 'alignment', I can't see an evil anything healing other people just for fun.

Though I must add that I normally try to hide the fact that I'm evil until I feel that I'm powerful enough to reveal that fact. It also normally helps if I can make an alignment with one of the strongest players in our party, just in case.

[ArcturusV]

Yeah, I know how that goes.

Fifth session into our campaign:

DM: Okay, you all come across 5 Skeletons...

Me (Evil Cleric): I try to turn them.

DM: Roll it.

*rolls really well*

DM: Two of the skeletons cower before you as you brandish your holy symbol, three kneel down and you hear them whispering, "What is thy bidding?"

Other players: ... wait... what... wait... YOU'RE EVIL!

Didn't go well from there as people were asking what if they needed healing (Never noticed I had been using a wand to do it, or didn't pay attention) or removing poison/curses, etc. DM didn't have a problem with it, only a couple of the players.

But it is a consideration. If you throw down an Evil Cleric, groups tend to get upset. Long as you realize Evil does not equal Out to Screw Everyone Else for Minimal Gains though, and tell people that's the case, it shouldn't be a huge problem. Pick up potions, scrolls, etc at level 1 so you can triage if needed, call it good.

Remember folks, he's starting at level 1, with core book stuff only. And being forced to start with the starter package. Which is really a sad, sad choice. I just hope he can change domains/alignment at least.

[Runestar]

I personally prefer a dwarf cleric. You get a con bonus at no real loss, his lower speed is negated by you being in heavy armour anyways, and you can select war domain for a decent weapon prof and free weapon focus. Take strength for your 2nd domain (the granted power stinks, but it does have some neat domain spells).

Use buff spells like bless, enlarge person or divine favour, and bash away.