How does a fortress defend from magical attacks? [Archive]

ShriekingDrake

2013-01-23, 11:24 AM

Hey, everyone. Joined to ask a specific question.

How do castles/keeps/fortresses prepare their defenses to repel powerful magical attacks. I was having this discussion with a friend, and neither of us could come up with a satisfactory answer. I would assume that a standard resident mage (or group of mages) would be necessary to counter attacks of that nature . . . but is there anything else keeps do to prepare themselves for such a thing?

Thanks for any help . . .

Some of this will depend on who built the structure, who now occupies it, what storyline atypical sources might have helped to protect the structure, and the level/power of the likely attackers. Can you give us a little more of the flavor?

WK7

2013-01-23, 11:35 AM

Some of this will depend on who built the structure, who now occupies it, what storyline atypical sources might have helped to protect the structure, and the level/power of the likely attackers. Can you give us a little more of the flavor?

Sure. Standard fantasy setting, in a medium-magic world. The structure sits at the mouth of a mountain pass, and mostly protects the province from random barbarian raids that scurry through the thin valley. Attacks occur quite frequently, but typically are unorganized and pose little threat. However, there are occasions where an organized army or one wielding some magic would attack, and in a world where magic is somewhat common, I'd imagine the keep would have some kind of preparations for it. I like the ideas given so far . . .

ArcturusV

2013-01-23, 11:43 AM

Well, the most obvious and easily set off thing they'd have to worry about (Least to me) is having some rock slide/avalanche come and just wipe out the fort. And there's lots of ways even low levels casters might achieve that. Just don't get into the trap that thinking Magical Attacks can't include a very mundane element and AMF/SR/DMZ/etc are your best lines of defense.

Ethdred

2013-01-23, 01:07 PM

No fort can defend itself from every attack - it just has to make it too expensive in time or resources for anyone to bother. But also, no fort-builder would spend money on defending against attacks that are unlikely to happen. So if this fort is built to defend against non-magic using barbarians then it sounds like it is doing a good job. Maybe all you need is some way in which the garrison can escape if an 18th level wizard turns up. But a good, cost-effective, basic defence against common magical attacks would be a roof :smallsmile:

navar100

2013-01-23, 01:17 PM

Forbiddence
Guards & Wards
Permanent Dimensional Lock
Hallow

UnjustCustos

2013-01-23, 01:28 PM

An airtight, ethereal solid, transparent, and magically treated dome made of lead and Obdurium. Good luck paying for it though.

ShriekingDrake

2013-01-23, 02:21 PM

If the occupants have an 11th level Wizard or 12th level Sorcerer, they could use permanent image to keep away "outsiders". While deception isn't foolproof, it is a good first step in protection.

WK7

2013-01-23, 02:30 PM

sabelo2000

2013-01-23, 02:46 PM

I've been considering this a lot for my campaign as well. For my capital city, the history and magic level are sufficient that I can use a mythal (See Forgotten Realms) to counter most magic I don't want to be used there. But for border forts? I tried Walls of Force combined with Forbiddance, but that assumes a decently-high-level caster permanently stationed at every post, or else a lot of Permanency spells (and Permanency can't affect many of the spells you'd need to properly prepare a magic defense). At the moment I'm trying to develop an [I]antimagic wall[I] spell, to create a flat barrier that no magic can pass through. The mechanics are troublesome, though, and development isn't proceeding very swiftly.

Once I get that spell developed, then it will just take a decent system of portals (essential for any mid-magic campaign anyway) to ensure that defense casters can appear on-call to respond to any magic threat.

Slipperychicken

2013-01-23, 02:54 PM

In a world with lots of high-level (above 5th) D&D magicians, castles themselves would most likely be obsolete (much like the modern world), and no-one would seriously spend the effort to build them when they could put those resources toward stronger magic.

Defensive architecture itself would be completely different in such a world, and probably unrecognizably so.

JaronK

2013-01-23, 03:01 PM

An interesting thing about castles in D&D is that they're much easier to destroy... but also incredibly easy to rebuild. A single Expert 4 with 7 ranks in perform and 12 Charisma can, with a Lyre of Building, easily repair any damage. Also, note that a Lyre of Building can be used to make an entire castle invincible for a time. So you can expect that as a standard defense. Additionally, a few castings of Wall of Stone and Fabricate can quickly build a castle in a month or so instead of a generation. As such, castles are cheap and easy. They're not there to hold off massive magical assaults. They're to deal with the mundanes. For the magical assaults, you need mages yourself, or assassins.

JaronK

laeZ1

2013-01-23, 03:20 PM

This looks like a job for my favorite spell:

Energy Transformation Field!
http://dndtools.eu/spells/magic-of-faerun--20/energy-transformation-field--1756/

If you don't know ETF, and don't want to bother reading the link, here's how it works: 6th level sorc/wiz spell, takes 4 rounds to cast. Permenantly effects an area of 40 ft. Link a spell to it. Any spell cast within the area (or magical item activiated, or spell-like ability used) fuels the spell linked (three level one spells cast would fuel a level three spell, for instance). Spells that are shot into the field have a deminished effect to signify the field is there, but mechanically are unchanged.

With proper use of metamagic, as well as the cost of a 1-time high level spell, the area of this could be extended quite a bit (I'm not the best optimizer, but I'm certain it could be trippled in size, which means good optimizers probably know how to make it 10 times bigger than that).

A good spell to link to it may be the construct-equivilent of cure light wounds, or perhaps Hero's Feast. Maybe magic stone (for catapult use!), or even cure X wounds mass.

The important part is that if you can make the area of effect large enough, your enemies are wasting their spell slots to do a thing you pre-determined to be beneficial for the fort (or the people inside it).

This could also be used to safeguard locations. Use ETF (not fortress sized) in places where enemy magic users might set up camp/sniping locations (mountain tops sounds like a nice place), and set up an ETF to Miasma if someone starts using magic in it. (think magical landmines) Link to Miasma below.
http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-divine--56/miasma--704/

Randomguy

2013-01-23, 03:21 PM

To defend against teleportation you could use a lot of castings of Forbiddance with a password that lets people of other alignments in. It's pricey, though.

JoshuaZ

2013-01-23, 03:32 PM

In the setting I'm currently using for my campaign which is slightly lower magic level than most settings there are rituals (using the incantation alternate rule system) which can effectively block teleportation and a few other spells over large areas. But making this work is almost completely homebrew. In a setting that actually has lots of high level magic users fortresses don't even make much sense to have at all. For example, when teleportation is common, strategic defense of specific passes and the like doesn't matter as much.

TopCheese

2013-01-23, 03:33 PM

Step 1: Go to a tavern/bar and tell people you are looking for adventurers to take out some goblins.

Step 2: After they get back from slaughtering them send them on a ton more adventurers with promises (that you come through with) of more riches.

Step 3: Play the waiting game.

Step 4: When you get word of an attack send a message to said adventurers that you will pay them again if they save you. Promise something awesome (I'm assuming you are a king/baron) and equip them with awesome gear.

Step 5: ??? (You aren't anywhere near the fight so you don't know).

Step 6: Profit (Pay steve the aboleth to steal the adventurer's stuff for you and mind rape them. Repeat the process).

Note: Step 6 is important because if adventurers get to high level they don't need you.

Gotterdammerung

2013-01-23, 03:42 PM

Forgotten realms makes good use of mythals. You can see an example of a mythal in practice on page 76 of the Players Guide to Faerun "the Wards of Silverymoon".

Another cheaper and more accessible option is to use lair wards and wondrous architecture.

Lair wards can be found on pages 84-86 of the draconomicon. Lair wards are closely related to wondrous architecture and share a lot of the same rules.

Wondrous architecture can be found on pages 70-86 of the Stronghold builders guidebook.

Both of these mechanics provide more than ample protection for a castle, but it can be quite a daunting wall of text to consume, so take it slowly.

ShriekingDrake

2013-01-23, 04:00 PM

Is Permanent Image powerful enough to mirror the entire structure of a stronghold!?

It is if you cast it enough times. And the images can even be adjusted to account for the season. If hiding is important enough, a permanent image can help hide a permanent object, like a stronghold.

Telok

2013-01-23, 06:54 PM

From the SRD on magic walls. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/dungeons.htm#specialWalls)

Magically Treated Walls

These walls are stronger than average, with a greater hardness, more hit points, and a higher break DC. Magic can usually double the hardness and hit points and can add up to 20 to the break DC. A magically treated wall also gains a saving throw against spells that could affect it, with the save bonus equaling 2 + one-half the caster level of the magic reinforcing the wall. Creating a magic wall requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat and the expenditure of 1,500 gp for each 10 foot-by-10-foot wall section.

What I've sometimes done is to use Craft Wondrous Item to enchant walls with Dispel Magic as a cheap alternative to giving them SR.

Gavinfoxx

2013-01-23, 07:18 PM

For the most part? They don't.

It is absurdly expensive to make a fortress -- rather than, say, a room -- defensible against magical attacks. Fortresses are there to defend against physical rabble; in order to harden something against magical attacks, one has to spend an absurd amount of resources for a negligible gain. To defend against mages, you need -- get this -- other mages!

nedz

2013-01-23, 07:45 PM

Illusory Wall is only 4th level, and has permanent duration, so that can be used for deception.

I've really no idea what castles would look like. Throughout the middle ages they developed to match the available threats of the time, obviously high level wizards weren't one of those. The shear range of threats you have to guard against means that anything physical is pointless: Earthquake, Lava, Angels, ...

I'm guessing real castles are on demi-planes and have mobile entrances.

Gavinfoxx

2013-01-23, 07:52 PM

Mostly, I'd expect that they would evolve to be like:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19857754/Living_in_a_Flying_Box...

A small, mobile tank / flying aircraft carrier for flying golems where you can layer huge amounts of protective wards and such in a small area.

And castles wouldn't really develop any place that has high level wizards. You would have, instead, forts which are designed mostly as places to hold soldiers, which are still useful for cowing populaces and holding land and denying the use of that land to demihumans and such.

nedz

2013-01-23, 09:09 PM

Yes, the "Castle" is just an illusion thrown up over-night to impress the commoners. It's well guarded by foreign troops so that no one gets to find out the truth. It is conceivable that there would be some administrative buildings such as courts and banquet halls, but there not about defence — well not from serious attackers.

GoddessSune

2013-01-23, 11:38 PM

How do castles/keeps/fortresses prepare their defenses to repel powerful magical attacks. I was having this discussion with a friend, and neither of us could come up with a satisfactory answer. I would assume that a standard resident mage (or group of mages) would be necessary to counter attacks of that nature . . . but is there anything else keeps do to prepare themselves for such a thing?

Depends a bit on what you consider ''powerful magical attacks''. But:

1.PatrolsA lot of magical attacks need to be within sight of the castle, and even more so a couple hundred feet or less. Keeping that area closely watched is a good idea.

Shoot FirstSimple enough. You spot someone say 100 yards from the castle, you shoot to kill.

3.DivinationKnow they are coming

Fyermind

2013-01-24, 12:46 AM

There are magical attacks like what happens when a warmage or dread necromancer attacks, and then there are magical attacks like what happen when a druid or wizard attacks. Defending against the former is possible, defending against the latter isn't worth it.

The first priority is minimizing damage from spellcasting attacks. This means the soldiers are spread out and have improved cover so spells like fireball don't wipe them all out at once.

The next is ranged attacks. More than ever, spellcasters make combat a ranged ordeal. All defenders should carry long ranged weapons (heavy crossbows, longbows, balistae, eternal wands of fireball, etc.).

You can't hit someone you can't see. This means there shouldn't be cover anywhere near your stronghold (extended fireball cast by a level 10 warmage has a range of 2800') A mile of cleared land is ideal, more practical, is at least 1000-2000 feet.

Fearless is a regional feat from players guide to eberron. Barring that, there are several other ways to be immune to fear. Try to get as many guards fear immune as possible. Terror is rampant on the battlefield, and immunity to it is huge. Furthermore spellcasting can quickly, directly or indirectly, target the moral of your troops.

Finally, illusions are your friend. If the top of your wall appears to be 25' above where it actually is, fireballs targeting troops there will miss where your troops are actually massed. Illusions in the hands of your enemy are not your friends. I don't know a good way of dealing with them, but a counter to beguiler attacks is important when defending a keep in a tier 3 environment.

silverwolfer

2013-01-24, 01:21 AM

Fireballs any time you see a sparkle of magic outside your walls, even if it is a firefly at night casting " Light", everyman that is on that wall has a wand of fireballs. So about 40 fireballs aims at the weird glowing light they see off in the distance.

One of them should hit it.....if you are fighting against other magic users thou....I image some sort of artifact or wondrous item comes into play , also take a look at the book strongholders builders guide, for some good tips on things. The usual spells to deny folks though tend to be in the 6th and up spell level.

When I went to war , I used a mythal seed to protect my main base, and then used perment illusions and a bunch of other spells to ward my stones and stuff from elemental damage, and likewise built it deep into the ground to protect against earth quake.

Then again, we are playing at level 25 with followers against each other. Still, I loved my status of gond, that was also acted as an lighthouse. With level 9 celestial light spells going off on it auto blinding evil creatures and doing massive damage against the undead hordes that you tend to see in pvp, and well animate object on the statue...and you now have a moving light house that is smashing the invading enemy boats..... truly the stuff of epic roleplay.

Oh and did I tell you about the time I made a bunch of fake golmens meant to look like golemns , and then animated statue all of them, so the other side would waste denigration beams.

Tvtyrant

2013-01-24, 01:40 AM

Have someone cast Hallow a tremendous number of times, with dimension anchor attached on the ground and dispel magic up in the air. They cannot teleport in, and trying to fly should have them dropping out of the sky.

The best part is you can make it so that these spells don't effect you and your followers, just enemies.

silverwolfer

2013-01-24, 01:46 AM

Ummm I can fly as a EX ability? why ? because am bad ass

Sayt

2013-01-24, 02:13 AM

I don't know about 3.5, but pathfinder has a spell called Teleport Trap (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/teleport-trap), which diverts (On a failed save) or prevents(On a passed save) teleportation into a decent sized area per casting, and can be permanencied.

So anyone who tries to enter through teleportation ends up shunted into the AMF'd dungeons (Over the field so that they fall in.)

Gavinfoxx

2013-01-24, 02:29 AM

The best anti-teleportation device in 3.5e that I can think of is a Wyrdstone, a FR item. Other than that, there's Anticipate Teleportation and Greater Anticipate Teleportation in SpCom...

Pickford

2013-01-24, 02:40 AM

If the occupants have an 11th level Wizard or 12th level Sorcerer, they could use permanent image to keep away "outsiders". While deception isn't foolproof, it is a good first step in protection.

Screen is better (given a choice) and covers up to 600 cubic feet by 20.

Permanent Image (PHB 260)
Illusion (Figment)
Level: Brd 6, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M(a bit of fleece, plus powdered jade worth 100gp)
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect: Figment cannot extend beyond a 20 ft. cube + one 10 ft. cube/level (S)
Duration: Permanent (D)
Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with)
Spell Resistance: No

Downsides: Image is static unless the caster is concentrating on it, though permanent only covers 220 cubic feet which probably won't cover an entire fortress without multiple casts.

Screen (PHB 274)
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Sor/Wiz 8, Trickery 7
Component: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Close (25 feet + 5 ft/2 levels)
Area: 30-ft cube/level (S)
Duration: 24 hours
Saving Throw: None or Will disbelief (if interacted with); see text
Spell Resistance: No

So unless you happen to have a 610+ foot structure (highly unlikely unless it was built with magic) that would be your best option. Plus it lasts 24 hours, so a single caster could do upkeep daily on it.

Scrying automatically detects the Screen with no save allowed, Sight and Sound are appropriate to the illusion created. "Direct observation may allow a save (as per a normal illusion) if there is cause to disbelieve what is seen."

They give the example of seeing someone disappear into the illusion and reappear out of it. But the best part: "Even entering the area does not cancel the illusion or necessarily allow a save, assuming that hidden beings take care to stay out of the way of those affected by the illusion."

Side note: This spell would have amazing utility for anyone putting together a planar binding kidnapping squad.

And for glamer vs figment, paraphrased from PHB:
Figment: creates a false sensation, those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing (not personalized) and cannot make a thing seem to be something else. Cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell specifically says it can, must be speech the caster can speak, otherwise is gibberish, visual copies cannot be made unless the caster knows what they look like. Figment has an AC of 10 + size modifier.

Glamer: changes sensory qualities making it look, feel, taste, smell or sound like something else or even seem to disappear.

Matticussama

2013-01-24, 03:08 AM

There are a lot of examples in the Stronghold Builder's Guide on how to make a heavily defended castle/fortress. They give all sorts of examples of various levels of protection, which you can customize based upon your level and enemies. As many other people have said, building and maintaining such a castle is expensive; thus, take the Landlord feat (also from Stronghold Builder's Guide). It gives you free gold at every level to build/protect/expand your keep, and it matches any additional funds from your own adventuring horde that you use to improve it beyond that free gold.

In addition to those, here are some good basics:

As people said before, your castle is vulnerable to rock slides since it is set in a mountain pass. Have a Permanent Wall of Force put above your castle, so that any rocks that fall don't simply crush your castle. As a bonus, it also protects you from aerial attack; not even a dragon's breath weapon will be able to destroy it. Only powerful magic like Disintegrate, Mortenkainen's Disjunction, and Rods of Cancellation can destroy the Wall.

I also echo the use of Energy Transformation Field to protect your walls. Each casting has an area of 40ft, but you can always have multiple castings set up to protect your entire wall. Depending on how big your castle is this could require a lot of castings, so this is best if you get a party Wizard to just learn the spell; otherwise, buy a Staff or a bunch of Scrolls of the spell.

Finally, no matter how many protections you have in place, you need someone to defend it. Leadership helps. Many DMs don't allow Leadership because it gives a new combatant in battle. However, if you leave your Cohort in your Castle to serve as your Castellan, it shouldn't be as much of a problem. Your Cohort would serve to hold your keep for you while you're out adventuring, and could also oversee the deployment of your followers for guard duty, patrols, etc. If multiple party members take Leadership, so much the better; you now have a force which can protect your castle almost as good as if your whole party was there.

Pickford

2013-01-24, 03:21 AM

Hmmmm... From the top of my head, you need something on the Ethereal to stop invaders from coming or spying that way. You also need something to stop teleports and plane shifting into the fortress, and even then you'd be vulnerable to wish spells. You pretty much need very high level casters to counter other very high level casters. :smalleek:

Plane shift doesn't work like that. Or at least it doesn't work like that intentionally.

Plane Shift (PHB 262) - "Precise accuracy as to a particular arrival location on the intended plane is nigh impossible. From the Material Plane, you can reach any other plane, though you appear 5 to 500 miles (5d%) from your intended destination."

I added the emphasis, as in your average distance will be 100 miles away. Probably not a threat on balance.

Antipathy would a good method (lvl 8 spell, 2 hr/level) which drives a particular type or alignment away. Ideally placed on a narrow passageway.

If you want to put up something defensively useful guards and wards or any of the runes/symbols is probably a good idea.

Pickford

2013-01-24, 03:26 AM

The best anti-teleportation device in 3.5e that I can think of is a Wyrdstone, a FR item. Other than that, there's Anticipate Teleportation and Greater Anticipate Teleportation in SpCom...

Forbiddance (PHB 232) - 60-ft cube/level (S); Duration: Permanent
Seals and area against all planar travel into or within it. This includes all teleportation spells (such as dimension door and teleport), plane shifting, astral travel, ethereal travel, and all summoning spells. Such effects simply fail automatically.

Kind of requisite for sealing it off from magical intrusion.

TuggyNE

2013-01-24, 03:42 AM

Screen (PHB 274)
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Sor/Wiz 8, Trickery 7
Component: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Close (25 feet + 5 ft/2 levels)
Area: 30-ft cube/level (S)
Duration: 24 hours
Saving Throw: None or Will disbelief (if interacted with); see text
Spell Resistance: No

The range on screen is messed up; at the lowest level it can be cast (Trickery domain, CL 13), you can't even fit the entire area in a hemispheric casting, although it might get a little better from there.

Gavinfoxx

2013-01-24, 03:47 AM

Didn't Tippy talk about a ton of ways for how Forbiddance, Wyrdstones, etc. etc. can be overcome?

Also, Silver... I really, really disagree with the Fireball thing. What an utterly, fantastically ineffective and over-specialized and over-costly way to not solve the problem!

ShriekingDrake

2013-01-24, 08:21 AM

Screen is better (given a choice) and covers up to 600 cubic feet by 20.
There is no doubt that Screen is fantastic. It requires a higher level caster and must be re-cast daily. It's range is shorter, but it's area is larger/casting. It does have no spell component, which is a good thing. If you've got an 8th level wizard/sorcerer on staff, it's a superb choice. But castles are meant to outlast people and so I still think the permanent image offers good options.

Jane_Smith

2013-01-24, 09:35 AM

There was a spell in one of the books of the Relic's and Rituals series called "Mana Sink" that allowed someone to easily counter enemy spellcasting in an area you designate. Only people with a specific badge, tattoo, race, etc you pick can cast spells in the area of the sink, and all spells cast in the area are treated as if the spell readied a dispel magic spell to counterspell them, using the original makers caster level/etc. They only took up a 60 foot area for each sink, but they could be made permanent and even widened, and if they overlap, enemy spells would get multiple counterspell attempts made against each individual spell that enters the area, making a solid anti-magic defense from direct assaults.

Another idea is you could always make permanent anti-magic fields at specific points in the fortress such as the top of the watch tower to protect your archers/watchmen from sleep spells or fireballs out of nowhere.

You could also use the wards, glyphs, stones, etc from the Draconomicon/book of dragons, it had several rules for how to properly defend a dragons lair that could be implemented for a fortress - such as a ward stone that generated a massive, permanent storm with a wind strength of your choosing based on the stones strength that circles your fortress to stop projectiles and flying enemies, another that makes your area COMPLETELY immune to scrying and teleportation/conjuration. by etching every surface that is protected with glyphs and carvings, and so on.

Also, I believe pathfinder has a 1st-level spell called Harden that permanently increases the hardness and hit points of an object or area you cast it on in a 5 foot by 5 foot area by 50%. It does not stack with itself obviously, but this combined with magically enhanced and reinforced stone walls for the construction of the work can make them virtually unbreakable by anything but colossal dragons or gimpy spells like stone to mud, which is why you need mana sinks EVERYWHERE. I think in a book called "Medieval Player's Handbook" by rohin publishing also had rules for alchemical treatments to make objects up to 50% better hardness and hit points, which would stack with the harden spell, which could easily make the doors/gates/walls of your fortress indestructible against siege weapons, etc. I used this combination on a solid darkwood and adamantine warship once in a naval campaign, and hardened and used alchemy to make EVERY inch of it twice as strong, and even coated it with special oils and tars to make it get fire/acid resist 10. Needless to say, it never sank - though my entire crew got killed cause I spent every gold on improving the ship and not there gear. I knew I overlooked SOMETHING. :smalleek:

Oh, derp, how could I forget? Best anti magic defense for a fortress: Make it a golem. Golems get immunity to all forms of magic besides 1-2 spells, which you can compensate for. Would be hilarious for the enemies to find out there besieging a colossal golem that fires its own repeating ballistas. :smallbiggrin:

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/koenmasgurl88/motivational%20posters/MotivationalEpicLevelGolems.jpg

ShriekingDrake

2013-01-24, 11:26 AM

Oh, derp, how could I forget? Best anti magic defense for a fortress: Make it a golem. Golems get immunity to all forms of magic besides 1-2 spells, which you can compensate for. Would be hilarious for the enemies to find out there besieging a colossal golem that fires its own repeating ballistas. :smallbiggrin:

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/koenmasgurl88/motivational%20posters/MotivationalEpicLevelGolems.jpg

That's a clever idea: An animated constructed structure. I suppose there is the cost of that to think about, but a stronghold that is actually charged with caring for its occupants is a fantastic notion.

UnjustCustos

2013-01-24, 11:28 AM

A living city that cares? Gentlemen, it is time to open your Alchemical Exalted books.

Jane_Smith

2013-01-24, 11:46 AM

Ontop of that, if you give it a form of sentience or a guideline to follow, it will understand potential threats and deal with them internally and externally. Oh, enemies have teleported in section a? Better release the poison gas. This solves a few of the problems that a normal fortress can not deal with from magic shenanigans, a golem-fortress can adjust itself to new situations fairly quickly and can take orders from the fortress/golem commander/creator.

Pickford

2013-01-24, 01:24 PM

There is no doubt that Screen is fantastic. It requires a higher level caster and must be re-cast daily. It's range is shorter, but it's area is larger/casting. It does have no spell component, which is a good thing. If you've got an 8th level wizard/sorcerer on staff, it's a superb choice. But castles are meant to outlast people and so I still think the permanent image offers good options.

I would have assumed if you're going to all this trouble as a society your wizards would have assistants in training/apprentices...

Also, doesn't the animated keep have the same problem if it responds to its controller (who will eventually die) and have the risk of having to have the golem make the choice of who or what is a threat? (i.e. random travelers getting murdered or the keep kills a diplomatic envoy because it was [pick one] evil; lawful; chaotic; good; kobold; orc; elf; dwarf; human; etc...)

UnjustCustos

2013-01-24, 01:39 PM

Also, doesn't the animated keep have the same problem if it responds to its controller (who will eventually die) and have the risk of having to have the golem make the choice of who or what is a threat? (i.e. random travelers getting murdered or the keep kills a diplomatic envoy because it was [pick one] evil; lawful; chaotic; good; kobold; orc; elf; dwarf; human; etc...)

I believe I once heard of a spell that makes a construct like a living being for a short while. If that is true then you need to break out psionics and mindseed the keep. But of course that is based off the spell working like that and me not imagining it.

Edit: Humanoid Essence, Greater

Jane_Smith

2013-01-25, 03:34 AM

Not all constructs are mindless, the monster manuals showed a few that had innate intelligence/etc, and there is the warforged as an obvious stable of playable golems. Considering your making an epic-level golem, it having its own sentience does not seem that far fetched.

nedz

2013-01-25, 06:31 AM

Well, Golems are hollow — so you could just build your fortress inside a really bug one.

Gavinfoxx

2013-01-25, 10:07 AM

Uh, Golems most definitely do NOT get immunity to all but 1-2 spells, despite what it might look like for some particular golems in their stat blocks.

Karoht

2013-01-25, 11:17 AM

The best defense I've seen is have it on a personal demi-plane. Barring that, secrecy is your best defense, after that I would recommend politics/diplomacy.

If it's on a demi-plane, it's practically unreachable for the most part.

If no one knows where it is, how can they attack it?

If everyone knows about it, because it is a focal point for trade and the brokering of deals, not too many people will be willing to screw with it.

If everyone knows about it, because it is a beacon of light and a shining example what is good and awesome in the world? You don't have to defend it, others will come defend it for you, because of what it stands for.