Launch Bolt question

[RagnaroksChosen]

Is there a way to make this an at will spell like ability in 3.5?


Had an Idea based on a post in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268872).

Is it possible to build a Meta magic specialist that focus's on launch bolt? I could see some interesting ideas... Not sure how raw it would be. I guess Sorcerer would also prolly be the better class to use.

[Vaz]

Innate Spell General Feat. Swaps a slot at 8th level for 1/round SLA, complete Arcane.

Combine with Greater Magic Weapon for funsies.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Hmm unfortunate. Innate spell while nifty seems annoying to get.

How would one go about optimizing Launch Bolt instead?

[Fouredged Sword]

Well a Colossal heavy crossbow bolt deals 6d8 damage. Now get the spell to effect as many targets as possible to fire a barrage.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Well a Colossal heavy crossbow bolt deals 6d8 damage. Now get the spell to effect as many targets as possible to fire a barrage.

True true...

Arcane thesis, and a bunch of MM's.

I was originally thinking of going something like
Focused Specialist transmuter using the combat feats ACF from the SRD.
Getting to like 5th or so then multi-classing into some sort of fighter or multi-class a bunch to get range feats.

[Fouredged Sword]

I think you can chain launch bolt. You apply reach and then chain to launch CL number of bolts all at once.

No point in getting much past point blank shot/precise shot. Just don't hit the fighter. Your damage is determined by the bolt size and the number of attacks by your CL.

[Gotterdammerung]

Well a pld of mystra could get the ability to prepare launch bolt. Battle blessing would allow her to cast it as a swift. This together would allow 2 castings per round. Metamagic reducer cheese could make these twin spelled. Swift mage could give you another casting per round.

Tricky to fit it all in but thats 6 casting altogether. 12 if you tack on repeat spell.

The real question is how are you gonna carry around all this colossal + ammunition.

[Chilingsworth]

Well a pld of mystra could get the ability to prepare launch bolt. Battle blessing would allow her to cast it as a swift. This together would allow 2 castings per round. Metamagic reducer cheese could make these twin spelled. Swift mage could give you another casting per round.

Tricky to fit it all in but thats 6 casting altogether. 12 if you tack on repeat spell.

The real question is how are you gonna carry around all this colossal + ammunition.

Quiver of Elohona? Bag of Holding?

[Seer_of_Heart]

Innate Spell General Feat. Swaps a slot at 8th level for 1/round SLA, complete Arcane.

Combine with Greater Magic Weapon for funsies.

So could a dwk using temporary HD +psionic reformation to qualify for the epic feat to gain higher spell levels and gaining lots of feats use that feat to gain wish or any 9th level spell then supernatural transformation to have a 1/round free wish?

[Inferno]

The real question is how are you gonna carry around all this colossal + ammunition.

Isn't the go-to solution for that issue usually eschew materials?

[Chilingsworth]

Isn't the go-to solution for that issue usually eschew materials?

1. Doesn't launch bolt act on the ammunition, rather than using it as a component?

Even if it does use the stuff as components:

2. colossal ammuntion isn't cheep enough for eschew materials to work.

[Seer_of_Heart]

2. colossal ammuntion isn't cheep enough for eschew materials to work.

Ah, but that's where you're flawed it AFAIK it doesn't list the cost in the spell so it is assumed to be negligible and it doesn't say what size bolt you're limited to.

[Gildedragon]

But if you eschew the material you no longer have the target "one bolt in your possession"

@Chillingsworth: It is both the component and the spell's target

[IdleMuse]

Colossal Bolts don't cost 1sp, they can't be the material component in question.

Also, you can only use this spell to fire bolts designed for your own size. I can't remember exactly, and AFB, but it is RAW.

[Chilingsworth]

But if you eschew the material you no longer have the target "one bolt in your possession"

@Chillingsworth: It is both the component and the spell's target

I see. Well, same result, different reason, I guess.

[Gotterdammerung]

Colossal Bolts don't cost 1sp, they can't be the material component in question.

Also, you can only use this spell to fire bolts designed for your own size. I can't remember exactly, and AFB, but it is RAW.

You use eschew materials to remove the material component. Once the component is gone, you can use the spells effect on any bolt.

[Gildedragon]

Colossal Bolts don't cost 1sp, they can't be the material component in question.

Also, you can only use this spell to fire bolts designed for your own size. I can't remember exactly, and AFB, but it is RAW.

You use eschew materials to remove the material component. Once the component is gone, you can use the spells effect on any bolt.

Nope not RAW. It just says "as if you had fired it from a light crossbow" doesn't specify the size of the light crossbow. This allows one to use larger (or smaller) crossbow bolts to attack with, as long as you take the penalty associated. It does preclude Colossal bolts (assuming a medium caster), because one can only use weapons up to 1 (or 2?) size categories larger.

Eschew components will not, however, allow you to go around this as the "launch as if you had fired..." bit is in regard to the bolt the spell is cast on.

[Curmudgeon]

Well a Colossal heavy crossbow bolt deals 6d8 damage.
That assumes you're Colossal size.
You cast this spell on a crossbow bolt, causing it to fly at a target of your choice as if you had fired it from a light crossbow, using a ranged attack roll. Any size other than your own counts as attempting to use a ranged weapon of inappropriate size, and the rules generally prohibit that.

Plus, of course, you must find someone who will charge the Medium bolt price for a Colossal bolt.

[Chilingsworth]

Slightly off topic, but how big would a colossal bolt be, anyway?

[Gildedragon]

Slightly off topic, but how big would a colossal bolt be, anyway?
So "medium" shuriken are less than 6in across, as are other forms of ammo. So the fine size category would fit, yes?
Lets say yes and then someone can challenge me
That's 4 size categories below medium, so what's 4 size categories below Colossal...
Medium.

[Chilingsworth]

So "medium" shuriken are less than 6in across, as are other forms of ammo. So the fine size category would fit, yes?
Lets say yes and then someone can challenge me
That's 4 size categories below medium, so what's 4 size categories below Colossal...
Medium.

So, a bolt the size of a man, eh?

Or maybe a medium-sized snake would be a better comparison?

[Fouredged Sword]

82lb per bolt... Roughly 30lb per cubic foot for wood... That gives us roughly three cubic feet of wood.

1/4 Pi * D^2 * L is volume. Lets say the arrow is 60x is diameter in length.

.25 * 3.14 * 1/360* L^3 = 3 volume

11.12 ft long and 2.24in thick.

This is the top end estimate for size as this discounts the existence of an arrow head from the calculation of the arrow size. 9ft long and 2in thick with a iron tip would not be a bad estimate counting for the added weight at the tip.

[Chilingsworth]

82lb per bolt... Roughly 30lb per cubic foot for wood... That gives us roughly three cubic feet of wood.

1/4 Pi * D^2 * L is volume. Lets say the arrow is 60x is diameter in length.

.25 * 3.14 * 1/360* L^3 = 3 volume

11.12 ft long and 2.24in thick.

This is the top end estimate for size as this discounts the existence of an arrow head from the calculation of the arrow size. 9ft long and 2in thick with a iron tip would not be a bad estimate counting for the added weight at the tip.

Ok, to continue the catgirl murder:

How functional would a bolt that size be? Wouldn't it break apart if fired with enough force to be effective?

[Gildedragon]

So, hear me out, there is this thread asking about cheap travel spells, in reading through that and this the following idea came up.

We need a Small or smaller wizard, a medium sized, bolt-shaped, projectile, and a Twinned+Eschew Materials-ed Launch Bolt (actually, more than one, but...)
You put the wizard astride the bolt and cast away. 160 ft per round. More actually as you don't care too much about missing a landmass.

That being of course, if the casting of colossal bolts was possible.

[Chilingsworth]

So, hear me out, there is this thread asking about cheap travel spells, in reading through that and this the following idea came up.

We need a Small or smaller wizard, a medium sized, bolt-shaped, projectile, and a Twinned+Eschew Materials-ed Launch Bolt (actually, more than one, but...)
You put the wizard astride the bolt and cast away. 160 ft per round. More actually as you don't care too much about missing a landmass.

That being of course, if the casting of colossal bolts was possible.

For some reason this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlSQAZEp3PA) came to mind.

[Gildedragon]

For some reason this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlSQAZEp3PA) came to mind.

Precisely what I was going for.

[Acanous]

technically speaking, couldn't you use the Polymorph line to make yourself larger beforehand? It would be rather easy, in that case, to get up to Collossal.
Just not before level 11.

Anyhow, if you're using Pathfinder, there's also the feat False Focus, which lets you Eschew up to 100 Gp instead of the 1GP normal limit.

Pretty sure even collossal-sized bolts wouldn't clock in over 100GP per bolt.

[Twilightwyrm]

I assume you've taken into account that, say, a Ring of Launch Bolt (on command) only costs about 900-1000 gp? I've been considering getting one for my rogue for a while (well actually it was launch item, but same difference), and I'd imagine it would be quite good at most levels.

[RagnaroksChosen]

I assume you've taken into account that, say, a Ring of Launch Bolt (on command) only costs about 900-1000 gp? I've been considering getting one for my rogue for a while (well actually it was launch item, but same difference), and I'd imagine it would be quite good at most levels.

Ya but you can't meta magic it as easy. But it is a good thing to note.. Is that for it at will or 1/day?

[Gildedragon]

That'd be at will, as the mage-hand hand

it still takes 1 standard action to use... so maybe less useful than you'd expect...

[Phelix-Mu]

For some reason this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlSQAZEp3PA) came to mind.

I think you may have tipped the win scales at over 9000 with this reference.

A couple thoughts.

1.) Wasn't there a floating weapon enchant or something? Flying from OA? Something that makes the weapon float in mid-air instead of falling to the ground. Failing this, perhaps animate objects on the bolts. Bolt-shaped constructs sounds cool, but maybe that wouldn't work.

2.) Get like two rounds worth of ammo and some form of returning weapon? This would solve the storage issue, but I guess some DM ruling on considering these to be non-missile weapons or some such. Would also have to deal with ammunition breakage, though an object of this size probably shouldn't break as often.

3.) Couldn't you do some kind of creation-line of spells to make the bolts up as the day goes on? Kind of assumes out of combat spellcasting, which is risky as it is only situationally possible. The created stuff doesn't even need to last that long.

4.) Psionics has a similar line of abilities to this launch bolt. Would be awesome if you could make the missiles out of astral protomatter or some kind of shaper coolness.