Need a bit of wrestling/combat advice

[Jeivar]

I'm writing a scene where character A is knocked down on her back, character B gets down on top, pins A and starts choking her to induce a submission.

I've never done any combat sports. Does this scenario add up? Could someone more knowledgeable than myself describe how character B might do this, or link pictures? And is there anything A might do to try to escape (although unsuccessfully)?

Thanks.

[razorback]

Depends on the 'pins' part. You probably mean the Mount, as is one of the more dominant positions, where B would basically be sitting on the chest or stomach of A.
Three things to remember - 1 remove the base, 2 push, and 3 pull.
If A is mounted then A wants to push one way and, once they offer resistance, pull the other way while popping up their hips (base removal) or buck-tuck-roll.
Once I'm on a computer instread of my phone I'll see what I can do for links and photos.

[Temotei]

Depends on the 'pins' part. You probably mean the Mount, as is one of the more dominant positions, where B would basically be sitting on the chest or stomach of A.
Three things to remember - 1 remove the base, 2 push, and 3 pull.
If A is mounted then A wants to push one way and, once they offer resistance, pull the other way while popping up their hips (base removal) or buck-tuck-roll.
Once I'm on a computer instread of my phone I'll see what I can do for links and photos.

This is right.

I'll distinguish mount and full mount, though; full mount is probably what you're looking at. Mount would have the characters in a neutral position regarding each other, with Character B (on top) in top guard and Character A (on bottom) in bottom guard, in which Character A has his/her legs wrapped around Character B's back and Character B is simply between Character A's legs.

Full mount would be what razorback described. There are a lot of moves here the character could make, from submissions to cranks (painful neck twists and such to make it easier to end the fight) to strikes. One simple strategy is to lie on top of Character A here and "butterfly" his or her legs by putting Character B's feet on the inside of Character A's heels and pushing outward.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRHT6yPbUGc#t=00m20s)'s a decent example of a triangle from full mount. It would, of course, be done much faster.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_RtUPI6osw)'s an example of an Americana, my favorite submission.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBOaklbi5TU)'s another choke submission.

Keep in mind that in a street fight, there's no rule against going for the groin, clawing eyes out, etc. If Character B just wants to end the fight, a choke is fine, but if Character B wants to end Character A, a choke will take a few minutes and other options are probably better.

Hope I helped.

EDIT: I forgot I had this (http://submissions101.com/brazilian-jiu-jitsu) bookmarked. That might help.

[Traab]

Ok, I want to add a what if to this. What if person B is straddling person a's chest, with his knees pinning person a's upper arms to the ground? Person A has their arms spread out, not against her body, and with person B's full weight on her upper chest and arms, wouldnt this be a reasonable way to keep her pinned while I perform the choke? Theoretically I suppose if she is limber enough she could bring her legs far enough up to try and get around my neck but im not sure if the leverage would be enough to break the choke

[razorback]

Here's an example of an Americana, my favorite submission.
One of mine, too. We were working on a rolling key lock in our class the other night.

[Jeivar]

Good advice. Thanks.

[Chen]

Ok, I want to add a what if to this. What if person B is straddling person a's chest, with his knees pinning person a's upper arms to the ground? Person A has their arms spread out, not against her body, and with person B's full weight on her upper chest and arms, wouldnt this be a reasonable way to keep her pinned while I perform the choke? Theoretically I suppose if she is limber enough she could bring her legs far enough up to try and get around my neck but im not sure if the leverage would be enough to break the choke

If someone could get their leg around your neck in that manner I suspect they'd be able to pull you back fairly easily unless there was a HUGE size difference. Your legs are MUCH stronger than your arms and bring your legs down while on your back is probably pretty decent leverage wise. Of course you can avoid the legs by the other person bringing their head very close to yours as they choke hence limiting access to their head/neck.

[Traab]

If someone could get their leg around your neck in that manner I suspect they'd be able to pull you back fairly easily unless there was a HUGE size difference. Your legs are MUCH stronger than your arms and bring your legs down while on your back is probably pretty decent leverage wise. Of course you can avoid the legs by the other person bringing their head very close to yours as they choke hence limiting access to their head/neck.

Yeah thats basically what I figured. The person doing the choking isnt going to be sitting upright, he will likely be leaning down and looking her in the eyes as the choke out is applied. Its still not impossible to get your legs around his neck, but I just dont know if the leverage would be enough to overcome the angle and placement.

[Caesar]

Depending on the mount, the choke is usually done in one of two ways. This assumes a top mount where the chokee is prone.

1) Classic two hands on the throat choke. Common if the opponent is much weaker or already beaten. Very hard to pull off without a full mount if the opponent can resist.

2) A forearm pressed down across the neck, usually the choker has their hips up in the air, their feet planted wide and firm, and is using their leveraged body weight to hold the other person flat. The other arm either stabilizes the choking arm, or controls the chokees arm, or attacks the face. This is easier done if the chokee can be pressed against an obstacle to prevent sliding.

Rear attacks allow all sorts of holds, including using the legs, all of which are generally far more effective.

[Slipperychicken]

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBOaklbi5TU)'s another choke submission.


I learned this one when I used to practice MMA. Well, and I think there was a similar one where you get one forearm on top of his neck and the other below and press down.

In a real fight, partly echoing Temotel here, you're going to have a lot of things normally disallowed in wrestling tournamounts like eye-gouging and biting. A guy once bit most of my sensei's ear off during a real fight (right before class too. He had to cancel it right as I showed up to see him with half an ear :smallfrown:), and there's not much you can do about that. Also, from a full mount, you can simply decide to rain blows down on your opponent if you don't have the training to get a hold. If B can turn A around so A's facing the ground, all the better for B.

And obviously, if either participant has weapons, that drastically changes the dynamic.

[Ageir]

What kind of training does the choker have? I could see sone kind of special forces operative pressing a knee to the throat while holding an arm by the qrist at about the chokers neck level. Twisting the arm in a rather paunful way. The arm wiuld be trapped and isolated and depending on the chokers strength maybe even being broken. All the while person b is being choked..... I went further into that than i meant too. :smalleek:

[Slipperychicken]

What kind of training does the choker have? I could see sone kind of special forces operative pressing a knee to the throat while holding an arm by the qrist at about the chokers neck level. Twisting the arm in a rather paunful way. The arm wiuld be trapped and isolated and depending on the chokers strength maybe even being broken. All the while person b is being choked..... I went further into that than i meant too. :smalleek:

Don't worry about it. You're posting on a forum where half the posters are devising ever more efficient, disturbing, and hilarious ways to commit mass slaughter in roleplaying games. A penchant for the particulars of violence is hardly going to stand out here, especially when the OP is specifically asking for vivid descriptions of violent acts.