Polymorph any object... is this possible?

[Menzath]

Okay new to the forums and have a few quick questions about this spell.

It say reads that it works like polymorph but with a few exceptions. one of the examples was shrew to manticore. Well that contradictes polymorph on the hit dice because it is limited by the spellcasters level, or the current creatures hit dice, Whichever is lower. And the second is... objects. So the first example is pebble to a human. objects normally do not have hit dice. would you count every inch of thickness as hit dice since objects HP are measured by thickness? And if so... what happens if you change a 12ft boulder to a dragon? 120HD + con mod for a throw away creature that lasts 20mins? great way to wipe out enemy armies and just site back and have a good laugh from protection.

Also if you gain a type/subtype from odd race/feat configurations, like say how the dragon touched feat gives you the dragon blood subtype, and makes you to be considered a dragon in ALL respects, if you then take draconic heritage: gold coud you be permanently poly'd into a gold dragon?

Any information on these would be greatly appreciated :smallsmile:

[Vaz]

Okay new to the forums and have a few quick questions about this spell.

It say reads that it works like polymorph but with a few exceptions. one of the examples was shrew to manticore. Well that contradictes polymorph on the hit dice because it is limited by the spellcasters level, or the current creatures hit dice, Whichever is lower. And the second is... objects. So the first example is pebble to a human. objects normally do not have hit dice. would you count every inch of thickness as hit dice since objects HP are measured by thickness? And if so... what happens if you change a 12ft boulder to a dragon? 120HD + con mod for a throw away creature that lasts 20mins? great way to wipe out enemy armies and just site back and have a good laugh from protection.

Also if you gain a type/subtype from odd race/feat configurations, like say how the dragon touched feat gives you the dragon blood subtype, and makes you to be considered a dragon in ALL respects, if you then take draconic heritage: gold coud you be permanently poly'd into a gold dragon?

Any information on these would be greatly appreciated :smallsmile:

It states "except that it changes one object or creature into another"; rather than "change willing subject into another form of living creature". As you actually change what you are, and don't "assume a form", then there's no limitation on HD.

About the rock to dragon- yep. Bare in mind that the Dragon might not necessarily be friendly if it's not already friendly with you.

About the Feats to Dragontype - yep.

In short, PAO is borked.

[Fouredged Sword]

Yes. Also there is a debate over the suggestion you can PA0 into a shape, then PAO again to change into a related form to make it permanent as you are changing into a form that not far from your current form.

[Menzath]

Thanks for the response. And no HD limit, crazy op.
Now would it be stretching it to use magic device to use a scroll of this AND emulate a race for the purpose of using this scroll? mmm I can smell the cheese.

[Fouredged Sword]

It works for activating the scroll, not the effects of the spell cast from the scroll.

[Acanous]

PaO, Gate, Wish/Miracle are the three most powerful spells in the game, with the order determined entirely by how each spell is employed.

You can use any of the three spells to solve any problem.

[Xervous]

Of PAO, gate, wish/miracle, each of them can create RAW loops that produce NI castings of any of them, so it is best to stay away from their silliness.

[Pickford]

Yes. Also there is a debate over the suggestion you can PA0 into a shape, then PAO again to change into a related form to make it permanent as you are changing into a form that not far from your current form.

Hrm...logically your 2nd change 'would' be permanent...until the duration on the first non-permanent casting ran out. That would invalidate the permanency of the 2nd casting, giving it a duration going forward according to the spell.

[Cruiser1]

Of PAO, gate, wish/miracle, each of them can create RAW loops that produce NI castings of any of them, so it is best to stay away from their silliness.
For actual games outside of TO, Polymorph Any Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm) can be reined in somewhat (instead of just banned) if one interprets it in a more balanced (presumably RAI) way:

Max HD limit: Polymorph Any Object says, "This spell functions like polymorph, except...". That means effects or options that aren't specifically listed in the spell function exactly like Polymorph. Polymorph has a 15 HD limit, therefore Polymorph Any Object (when the destination is a creature) does too. That means no turning anything into a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon, although you can at least turn into a Young Gold Dragon. The higher level spell Shapechange has a 25 HD limit, so it makes sense that this lower level spell has a lower limit.

No creature HD limit: The fact you can polymorph a 1 HD shrew into a 6 HD Manticore shows that the normal limitation of Polymorph that you can't turn a creature into something with more HD than itself is overridden for this higher level spell. We want that anyway so turning HD-less objects into creatures up to 15 HD makes sense.

Time limit: Polymorph Any Object looks at your base unbuffed creature type when determining time limits. In the line, "the duration of the spell depends on how radical a change is made from the original state to its enchanted state", the original state means unbuffed state, not the state immediately before casting the spell. That means no casting Polymorph Any Object twice in a row to get a permanent duration, which was obviously never intended. The intention of "unbuffed state" can also be seen in the Polymorph spell, in the line "the new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types...", because otherwise an Outsider that polymorphs into a human wouldn't be able to Polymorph back into itself (because its current type will be Humanoid, and Outsider isn't one of the normally valid target types for Polymorph).


It states "except that it changes one object or creature into another"; rather than "change willing subject into another form of living creature".
That statement should be treated as just a quick summary telling that Polymorph Any Object can have the source and/or destination of the polymorph be an object in addition to a creature. It's not meant to say that the spell does anything different from Polymorph when the destination is a creature (other than having a different time limit and inheriting the INT of the new form).

[Psyren]

Yes. Also there is a debate over the suggestion you can PA0 into a shape, then PAO again to change into a related form to make it permanent as you are changing into a form that not far from your current form.

The debate is due to the fact that double-casting PAO would require the spell to stack with itself, which spells generally don't do.

[mattie_p]

The debate is due to the fact that double-casting PAO would require the spell to stack with itself, which spells generally don't do.

Except for this:


Same Effect with Differing Results
The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.

Ergo, the debate.