Brand new npcs requests

[Dark_Ansem]

Is this the right place to ask for npcs to be made? what sort of info should one give in order to recieve help?

[Norin]

First things to supply as far as info goes:

-What role would said npc have in the campaign? Quest giver, big bad evil guy, evil overlord, random encounter, town guard, caravan master, shopkeeper, magic item shop dude?
-What races are allowed?
-What books do you have that we can use to build said npc's with?
-How powerful do you want them? (CR, level, items, wbl, etc?)
-Alignment(restrictions)?
-What setting?
-Very optimized, or just regular builds?

...and so on.

Provide as much info as possible, then maybe some kind soul has a few suggestions for you.

[Dark_Ansem]

let's try the first npc...

Matyas
Vampire Lord
Role: Bad Guy
Races: Humanoid or Half-elves, turned into vampire at age 32
Total age: 905 years
books: those focused on Arcane classes
alignment: I'd say lawful evil
setting: FR really.

Abilities: this, I don't know. I'd say strong enough to be feasible in an Epic Campaign as the final villain. thus he should also have very powerful magical equipment that enhances his strengths and tries to offeset his weaknesses,
He's a magic user focused on Damaging Fire spells, Life-stealing spells, teleportation and alchemy. and he also likes to turn into a Red/black Dragon when combat is bad for him (so eventually stats should also be for dragn form)
I'd say a lot optimized, as it should be challenging like a final antagonist :D

[Jane_Smith]

So essentially you want the character sheet of the lord of ravenloft.

[Dark_Ansem]

nope, he does not transform :P or he does? I only checked out "Expedition to castle ravenloft" but did not really play it :(

[JeminiZero]

There is the Vampire Lord (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a) template, which basically says Unkillable and Vampire Weaknesses: No.

[Dark_Ansem]

There is the Vampire Lord (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a) template, which basically says Unkillable and Vampire Weaknesses: No.

is that a legit template? I have not seen it in any sourcebook :D

[JeminiZero]

Its on the WotC website, so that makes it legit-ish.

[Dark_Ansem]

:) where is the like button?

[Norin]

On facebook? :smallconfused:

[Dark_Ansem]

I wanted to like Jemizero's post, twas a little joke :)

so, anyway, for the npc?

[Kuulvheysoon]

I wanted to like Jemizero's post, twas a little joke :)

so, anyway, for the npc?


First things to supply as far as info goes:

-What role would said npc have in the campaign? Quest giver, big bad evil guy, evil overlord, random encounter, town guard, caravan master, shopkeeper, magic item shop dude?
-What races are allowed?
-What books do you have that we can use to build said npc's with?
-How powerful do you want them? (CR, level, items, wbl, etc?)
-Alignment(restrictions)?
-What setting?
-Very optimized, or just regular builds?

...and so on.

Provide as much info as possible, then maybe some kind soul has a few suggestions for you.

If you responded to Norin's post, you'd likely find more help.

[Chilingsworth]

Let's see... Barring early entry cheese (since you're going into epic levels anyway, you don't need it.) How about an Ultimate Magus?

Something like: Sor 1/Wizard 4/ Ultimate Magus 10/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Fatespinner 5?

Base Race: Human

Feats:

1: Extend Spell
HB: Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer)
3: Empower Spell
6: Versatile Spelllcasting
9: Fell Drain
10 (UM Bonus): split ray
12: Combat Casting
14 (UM Bonus): Invisible Spell
15: Craft Wonderous Item
18: Quicken Spell
21: ???
24: ???

At the end of ultimate magus, you'll cast as a 14th level wizard and an 8th level sorcerer. You could then distribute all 9 caster levels you get from your other two PrC's to wizard to cast as a 22 level wizard, or (what I would probably do): put either 3, 6, or 7 of them into wizard (depending on wheather you want to just get 9th level spells, max out your wizard spellslots, or enable epic spellcasting, and put the remainder into sorcerer. Note that whatever you do, your actual caster levels will be higher than I've indicated: Your wizard caster level will be four higher because of Ultimate Magus. You sorcerer caster level will be 8 higher because of Ultimate Magus and Practiced Spellcasting.

Actually, with that you could get away with either 3 or 6 levels added to wizard, since you would still qualify for epic spellcasting (9th level spells+ caster level 21+).

Also, if you want to be totally intelligence based, you could replace sorcerer with beguiler. But you'll have to rely on your wizard spells for blasting and such, rather than being able to do that with both.

[Dark_Ansem]

If you responded to Norin's post, you'd likely find more help.

I did. read the 3rd post.

[Frathe]

Is this the right place to ask for npcs to be made? what sort of info should one give in order to recieve help?

This should maybe go in Homebrew.

[Dark_Ansem]

Let's see... Barring early entry cheese (since you're going into epic levels anyway, you don't need it.) How about an Ultimate Magus?

Something like: Sor 1/Wizard 4/ Ultimate Magus 10/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Fatespinner 5?

Base Race: Human

Feats:

1: Extend Spell
HB: Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer)
3: Empower Spell
6: Versatile Spelllcasting
9: Fell Drain
10 (UM Bonus): split ray
12: Combat Casting
14 (UM Bonus): Invisible Spell
15: Craft Wonderous Item
18: Quicken Spell
21: ???
24: ???

At the end of ultimate magus, you'll cast as a 14th level wizard and an 8th level sorcerer. You could then distribute all 9 caster levels you get from your other two PrC's to wizard to cast as a 22 level wizard, or (what I would probably do): put either 3, 6, or 7 of them into wizard (depending on wheather you want to just get 9th level spells, max out your wizard spellslots, or enable epic spellcasting, and put the remainder into sorcerer. Note that whatever you do, your actual caster levels will be higher than I've indicated: Your wizard caster level will be four higher because of Ultimate Magus. You sorcerer caster level will be 8 higher because of Ultimate Magus and Practiced Spellcasting.

Actually, with that you could get away with either 3 or 6 levels added to wizard, since you would still qualify for epic spellcasting (9th level spells+ caster level 21+).

Also, if you want to be totally intelligence based, you could replace sorcerer with beguiler. But you'll have to rely on your wizard spells for blasting and such, rather than being able to do that with both.

how about swapping that Abjurant champion with Shapeshifter (oriental adventures)?

[Chilingsworth]

how about swapping that Abjurant champion with Shapeshifter (oriental adventures)?

I'm not familiar with that PrC. Does it give full casting levels? Otherwise, it could probably just be replaced with the Shapechange spell.

[Dark_Ansem]

ah, right. why do you suggest the Abjurant Champion?

[Chilingsworth]

ah, right. why do you suggest the Abjurant Champion?

Well, it gives full casting, full BAB, and some nice abilities. Of course, if you're not interested in abjuration spells, you could take the fatespinner first, then take Loremaster 1/ Wizard +1 (for wizard 5)/Divine Oracle 3.

Here's why: Divine Oracle requires skill focus: knowledge (religion), Loremaster requires skill focus: knowledge (any). Assuming your int bonus is at least +7 (which it should be by level 21 when you take the loremaster level,) you can chose a bonus feat, which effectively negates the cost of the skill focus. The fifth wizard level grants a bonus feat you can exchange for the Spontaneous Divination ACF out of Complete Champion. This lets you burn prepared spells to cast any divination spell in the game, without having to even know the spell. Divine Oracle gives a bonus to your divination spells, and an ability equivilant to evasion.

Also, on race: You could be a Sun Elf (+2 int, -2 con) instead of a human. If you do that, drop the extend spell at level 1 (don't take it, period, use it from metamagic rods.) You can then take the elven generalist ACF out of Races of the Wild.

As for your int score, if you do go sun elf, it should be (assuming you use the standard elite array): 15 + 2 sun elf +2 vampire +5 inherant +6 level= 30 before you chose an enhancement bonus. It will be 29 at level 20.

[Dark_Ansem]

It can't be a sun elf, only half-elf :P but thanks for the suggestion!

[Chilingsworth]

It can't be a sun elf, only half-elf :P but thanks for the suggestion!

Wait... if you're making npc's, you're the dm. Why can't you be a sun elf?

(also, the grey elf out of the SRD would do the job just as well.)

[Dark_Ansem]

it wouldn't fit with the character lore :( is it essential for the optimization?

[Chilingsworth]

it wouldn't fit with the character lore :( is it essential for the optimization?

It's essential for maximizing the optimization:

-- No elven generalist ACF (and it's a good ACF!) without being a fullblood elf

-- Without the int bonus from sun elf or grey elf is quite useful for a wizard.

Also, the lore could originate from the character using alter self or some polymorph effect.

[Dark_Ansem]

hmm.. I see. you remember it's a vampire right?

[Chilingsworth]

hmm.. I see. you remember it's a vampire right?

yeah, so? Elves can be vampires. And undead spellcasters retain their abilities to use polymorph spells and the like on themselves. As for optimizing his spellcasting ability: Better spellcasting is better spellcasting.

If anything, elves make even better vampires: their con penalty becomes irrelevant.

[Dark_Ansem]

I know I know I just thought the npc was not.
either way, this is far better than the lord of ravenloft.

[Jane_Smith]

If you want a more evil theme, I would highly suggest soul drinker from book of vile darkness or the new version from pathfinder which can be translated to 3.5 if you prefer fairly easily. Essentially your melee-touch spells/slam attacks/blood drains as a vampire will bestow +1-2 more negative levels and grant you even more temporary hit points. Who needs a sword when you can kill a level 20 enemy in 3-4 pokes?

[Chilingsworth]

I know I know I just thought the npc was not.
either way, this is far better than the lord of ravenloft.

Well, you did say you wanted the character to be viable as the BBEG of an epic level campaign. You need to be pretty powerful if you don't want to be a walkover for epic PC's. :smalltongue:

[Dark_Ansem]

do you feel that being so old the NPC should have a few more levels?

[Chilingsworth]

do you feel that being so old the NPC should have a few more levels?

You mean 25 levels isn't enough?

Beguiler (or sorcerer) 1/wizard 5/ ultimate magus 10/fatespinner 5/ Loremaster 1/ Divine Oracle 3. (note wiz 5 taken at level 15.)

With the vampire LA of +8, it's an ECL 33 character, and a CR 27 character.

How strong do you want the boss to be? Instead of more class levels, you might want to make it a vampire lord (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a), maybe?

(that template is 3.0 so it needs alittle tweaking. I suggest giving it normal vampire DR and replacing the bonus to the [now nonexistant] scry skill with a bonus to spot.)

[Dark_Ansem]

vampire lord for sure :)

[Dark_Ansem]

I think an appropriate ECL would be 53. first of all, how much would vampire+vampire lord increase it?

[Chilingsworth]

I think an appropriate ECL would be 53. first of all, how much would vampire+vampire lord increase it?

Well, Vampire is a +8 LA and a +2 CR. Vampire Lord (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a) has no listed LA (either because such things weren't consistantly listed for 3.0 material, or because it's not in any way intended to be available to player characters. It's CR adjustment is +3. I suppose CR is more important for our purposes than LA, anyway. the build I gave you would, as a vampire lord, have a CR of 30. Let's put this another way: what level do you expect your PC's to be when they face this npc?

[Dark_Ansem]

around 30-something. he's supposed to be at the end of a long dungeon where one can rest in safe-areas (it is a fair fight).

Why CR more important than NPC level or ECL?

[Chilingsworth]

around 30-something. he's supposed to be at the end of a long dungeon where one can rest in safe-areas (it is a fair fight).

Why CR more important than NPC level or ECL?

Because ECL is meant as a measure of PC power (and is very often a poor measure of it, at that.) CR is specifically for measuring the power of the PC's foes. Granted, it's not nessicarily good at its job, either, but at least it's designed for it. NPC (assuming levels in PC classes) CR generally equals class level + relevant modifers (templates and races, primarily.)

[Dark_Ansem]

let me see if I got this properly:
ECL: HD+LA
CR: the above + wherever is specified.

so a NPC with HD55, LA+16 and a CR34 would have an ECL of 71, but in fact the power of a lvl34 foe?

[Chilingsworth]

let me see if I got this properly:
ECL: HD+LA
CR: the above + wherever is specified.

so a NPC with HD55, LA+16 and a CR34 would have an ECL of 71, but in fact the power of a lvl34 foe?

You have ECL right. CR though is (at least in this case): Class Level + the listed CR adjustments for the template(s) applied to the character, which are different from the LA adjustments. CR will almost always be lower than ECL, at least I can't think of any examples of it being otherwise.

Your example is correct, at least that's how it's supposed to work.

[Dark_Ansem]

my example is of a NPC without class levels, just outsider HD. the CR already includes the template CR.

[Chilingsworth]

my example is of a NPC without class levels, just outsider HD. the CR already includes the template CR.

For creatures without class levels, their CR is whatever their statblocks say it is, plus the apporopriate adjustments for any added templates.

It's when you deal with monster advancement, and adding class levels to monsters that don't normall advance by character class that CR calculation can get really irritating. For help with that, I'd recomend UrPriest's handbook on the subject. Actually, I'd recomend that handbook to you regardless.

In fact... Here's a link to it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928)

[Dark_Ansem]

thanks :) it explains about racial types but not for classes (might have missed that bit, tho)

[Dark_Ansem]

considering what I learned today, I guess I should re-state my request from the beginning... does it bother anyone?

[Chilingsworth]

Go ahead. If I can still help (an open question depending on exactly what your restated request is) I'll post later.

[Dark_Ansem]

soooo...
Mateus, self-proclaimed lord of the vampires
Wanted Stats:
Vampire->Vampire Lord
Half-elf or Sun Elf
Age: 32 as a mortal + 905 as a vampire
Evolved undead? how to apply properly without being overpowered?
CR wanted: 52-55
Setting: FR, with a bit of focus on the undead/horror part
Important qualities: strength lies in arcane might (probably more spontaneous than learned, possibly both). Evoker/Conjurer/Necromancer/Shapechanger aspects.
Evoker: focused on Fire spells
Conjurer: as a vampire would do, can call flock of bats or spectral wolves to attack enemies, for example.
Necromancer: focused on spells that steal life or involved with blood (such as calling a blood rain)
Shapechanger: transforms into a more powerful form when reduced to 0 life. often a monstrous form, with wings.

what more info do you think I should consider?

[Dark_Ansem]

no idea at all?