3.5 Monster Skill Usage

[Adept_Scholar]

Can anyone clarify how the aranea in the 3.5 M.M. spent its skill points? According to pg. 290 in the manual, magical beasts receive 2+Int Mod per HD (2+2=4 per HD=12 skill points for the aranea), yet this puts me 20 points short (the creature's statistical block shows skills totaling 52 points whereas I come up with 32: 12 skill points+14 misc modifiers+6 ability modifiers. The statistical block shows "Jump+13", yet with the maximum skill ranks for a creature being HD+3 (along with a +0 strength modifier for jump), I am uncertain why this skill is as high as it is...What am I missing? :smallconfused: In addition, the text states an aranea casts spells as a 3rd-level sorcerer which would mean this particular aranea would receive one additional 1st & 2nd level spell as per its +2 charisma modifier for a total of: 5 level 0 spells, 4 1st level spells, & 1 2nd level spell (referencing Tables 1-1 on pg. 8 & 3-17 on pg. 54 in the 3.5 P.H.), yet the statistical block for the creature shows typical spells known as 6/6...:smallconfused:

[andromax]

Are you factoring in racial bonuses and jump bonuses due to increased speed?



Your Jump check is modifi ed by your speed. You take a –6
penalty for every 10 feet of speed you have less than 30 feet.
You gain a +4 bonus for every 10 feet of speed you have more
than 30 feet.

It's got a speed of 50, that's +8 right there.

And I don't think you're counting the other 2 + Int(2) x3 that it gets at 1st level along with it's first HD, (Because all creatures get x4 skill points at HD 1, as far as I know, reference page 301 of MM)...so that adds up to 20.

[Adept_Scholar]

Ahh, I see. Any idea on the spell setup? Is it a misprint?

[Urpriest]

Ahh, I see. Any idea on the spell setup? Is it a misprint?

The spells just look like a straight-up misprint.

[andromax]

In the opening paragraph of it's description; 'An aranea is an intelligent, shapechanging spider with sorcerous powers.'

And then;

Spells: An aranea casts spells as a 3rd-level sorcerer. It prefers
illusions and enchantments and avoids fire spells.

... why would that be a misprint? It's got a rowdy LA, and shapechange, I don't think those are misprints either. It's just a creature with some cool stuff for a CR 4.

I wonder if it's sorcerer levels advance with it's HD though.. could be nasty with twice the HD.

[Urpriest]

In the opening paragraph of it's description; 'An aranea is an intelligent, shapechanging spider with sorcerous powers.'

And then;

Spells: An aranea casts spells as a 3rd-level sorcerer. It prefers
illusions and enchantments and avoids fire spells.

... why would that be a misprint? It's got a rowdy LA, and shapechange, I don't think those are misprints either. It's just a creature with some cool stuff for a CR 4.

I wonder if it's sorcerer levels advance with it's HD though.. could be nasty with twice the HD.


In addition, the text states an aranea casts spells as a 3rd-level sorcerer which would mean this particular aranea would receive one additional 1st & 2nd level spell as per its +2 charisma modifier for a total of: 5 level 0 spells, 4 1st level spells, & 1 2nd level spell (referencing Tables 1-1 on pg. 8 & 3-17 on pg. 54 in the 3.5 P.H.), yet the statistical block for the creature shows typical spells known as 6/6...:smallconfused:

Reading the OP is often rather informative.

As for advancement, unless it explicitly advances with HD it won't.

[andromax]

OP. A high ability score has nothing to do with bonus spells known. It only gives the caster bonus spells per day. In this case would be 1 additional casting of a first level spell. And since it doesn't get any 2nd level spells, it has no 'bonus' 2nd level spell slot. If you wanted to give it Precocious Apprentice, then it would be able to take advantage of that, I believe.

Urpriest, sorry I didn't understand what he was asking until I reread it.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

In addition, the text states an aranea casts spells as a 3rd-level sorcerer which would mean this particular aranea would receive one additional 1st & 2nd level spell as per its +2 charisma modifier for a total of: 5 level 0 spells, 4 1st level spells, & 1 2nd level spell (referencing Tables 1-1 on pg. 8 & 3-17 on pg. 54 in the 3.5 P.H.), yet the statistical block for the creature shows typical spells known as 6/6...:smallconfused: [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]You're missing that the 6/6 is spells per day, not spells known. A 3rd level sorcerer gets 6 level-0 spells and 5 level-1 spells per day and the aranea gets a bonus level 1 spell for its charisma bringing it up to 6/6.

Bonus spells are additional spells per day, not extra spells known. The sorcerer description says "In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score." This means the aranea should have the same spells known as the sorcerer spells known table, so 5 level-0 and 3 level-1. I don't have the Monster Manual in front of me, but the SRD has the right number of spells known (0— daze, detect magic, ghost sound, light, resistance; 1st—mage armor, silent image, sleep.)

[Urpriest]

I had rather amusingly forgotten that Sorcerors don't get 2nds until 4th. The above posters are correct, the spells are not a misprint.

[Adept_Scholar]

And I don't think you're counting the other 2 + Int(2) x3 that it gets at 1st level along with it's first HD, (Because all creatures get x4 skill points at HD 1, as far as I know, reference page 301 of MM)...so that adds up to 20. I could not find this information, nor the information which states the -6 penalty or +4 bonus related to movement modes in either the 3.5 P.H. or 3.5 M.M. :smallconfused: On the other hand, when I looked at the aranea's possible skill points again, I came up with: (2+2 Int mod)=4xHD(3)+3=6=24 (4x6) skill points which matches up with what it appears to have spent after applying ability and miscellaneous modifiers: Jump=+13 (3 ranks, 0 mod, +10 misc), Climb=+14 (6 ranks, 0 mod, +8 misc), Con=+8 (6 ranks, 2 mod, 0 misc), Escape Artist=+5 (3 ranks, 2 mod, 0 misc), Listen=+6 (3 ranks, 1 mod, 2 misc), & Spot=+6 (3 ranks, 1 mod, 2 misc). However, I ran into two obstacles to this formula. First, under information on magical beast types on pg. 311 in the 3.5 M.M. it states: "Skill points equal to (2+Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quaduple skill points for the first Hit Die". Second, I came up with different results after I applied the formula I used with the aranea to a few other magical creatures in the 3.5 M.M. (blink dog, giant eagle, and kraken): I came up with slightly more skill points than what they appeared to have spent: skill points appeared spent with blink dog=13 (I came up with 14 available), skill points appeared spent with giant eagle=12 (I came up with 14 available), and skill points appeared spent with kraken=160 (I came up with 161 available). I realize these are only 1 and 2 point differences, but I am a newer D.M. (who likes to create, number crunch, and take things apart to see how they are derived) and would like to make sure I don't miss anything in reference to this as I am currently detailing my own world. Is it possible that these few points which are shown not spent are just a misprint? (On a side note, the kraken lists a feat called "Expertise", yet I could not find any information on this feat in either the 3.5 P.H. or 3.5 M.M.)...:smallconfused:

[Zherog]

"Expertise" is the 3.0 name for the Combat Expertise feat.

As for other bits...


"Skill points equal to (2+Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quaduple skill points for the first Hit Die".

Right, exactly. The previous poster who pointed out your mistake was saying you missed 3 out of those 4. Your monster gets 16 at first HD and 4 each additional HD.

The bonus / penalty to Jump from speed should be under the Jump skill's description. That's where it is in the SRD:


Your Jump check is modified by your speed. If your speed is 30 feet then no modifier based on speed applies to the check. If your speed is less than 30 feet, you take a –6 penalty for every 10 feet of speed less than 30 feet. If your speed is greater than 30 feet, you gain a +4 bonus for every 10 feet beyond 30 feet.

That's the second paragraph of the "Check" section.

[Adept_Scholar]

Ahh. I was thinking times HD as via (2+Int mod)xHD+3 rather than per HD (although it appears to come to the same result)...:smallamused: In reference to the appearance of all skill points not being used (see previous post), is that just misprint?

[Zherog]

Without going through to verify all the math, I'll say probably. There's a lot of mistakes in the stat blocks of the monster manuals.

[Urpriest]

Let's break things down:

Climb +14: Aranea get +8 Climb from their Climb Speed, and nothing from their Str, so 6 ranks there.
Concentration +8: +2 from Con, 6 ranks.
Escape Artist +5: +2 from Dex, 3 ranks.
Jump +13: +2 racial, +8 from 50 foot speed, 3 ranks.
Listen: +2 racial, +1 Wis, 3 ranks.
Spot: +2 racial, +1 Wis, 3 ranks.

Giving a total of 24 ranks. +2 Int means (2+2)*6=24 skill points, so this is right on the money.