Help with Build - Por Favor

[Stront]

I'm trying to come up with a new character and could use some input from the Playground.

My initial concept is an outsider in line with Aasimar or Hellbred. Started off as a Hexblade until level 3 (mettle) and saw the "LIGHT". Switched to Lawful Good and became a paladin (4 levels). Now he battles the forces of darkness as a champion against evil.

The world we are in has a heavy dose of dragons and wizards (what world doesn't I guess?) but those are often the BBEGs. I have 5 more levels to add to the build but not sure what route to take. I want to avoid casting for the most part as I always play a wizard or druid so looking for a bit less casting (could swallow some if limited).

I would like to be more of a group support type character and I'm thinking about taking Mageslayer to be a bit more anti-caster. I plan on burning turn attempts for Divine feats in combat too.

Thanks for your time.

[Cranthis]

I've found that a level in Barbarian tends to work well with most melee heavy builds.

[Stront]

I've found that a level in Barbarian tends to work well with most melee heavy builds.

That is a thought, I plan on wearing light armor too and picking up a Ring of Evasion. I figure I'll be a front line meat shield that takes spells and attacks.

I'm kind of thinking about a Dragon Shaman too.

[Cranthis]

That is a thought, I plan on wearing light armor too and picking up a Ring of Evasion. I figure I'll be a front line meat shield that takes spells and attacks.

I'm kind of thinking about a Dragon Shaman too.

Then you might as well take anywhere from 2-5 levels of barbarian. Evasion as a class feature wouldnt take up a ring slot, and it would be there no matter what.

[Andezzar]

I've found that a level in Barbarian tends to work well with most melee heavy builds.Don't forget to take some ACFs. Spiritual Totem (Lion) is nice, especially when combined with Whirling Frenzy.

[Stront]

Then you might as well take anywhere from 2-5 levels of barbarian. Evasion as a class feature wouldnt take up a ring slot, and it would be there no matter what.

Barbarians get evasion? :smallconfused:

[Cranthis]

Barbarians get evasion? :smallconfused:

Woops. Nope. I meant Uncanny dodge. I done derped.

[Stront]

Woops. Nope. I meant Uncanny dodge. I done derped.

Haha, no problem I was like - damn that would be AWESOME! :smallsmile:

[Cranthis]

Haha, no problem I was like - damn that would be AWESOME! :smallsmile:

Well, Uncanny dodge is still good anyways. And Improved Uncanny dodge is also great.

[Lortharian Duin]

You could get mettle through Pious Templar, from Complete Divine. Good Pious Templar has paladin spell list.

[Vaz]

What about Paladin 4 is better than a Paladin of Slaughter or Tyranny 4?

You swap Aura of Evil, Detect Good, Smite Good, Divine Grace, Deadly Touch, Debilitating Aura, and Divine Health.

You swap your Good/Evil features around; keep Divine Grace and Health, in return for swapping Lay On Hands for a Damaging Version (Will Save for Half) and Healing Undead with it, while making enemies within 10ft easier to hit/reduces enemy saves.

I must admit, one thing I like is the alignment spectrum, while I'll allow a swing of 1 place on one of the axes, outside of plot devices, I don't like players changing by 2 points (i.e a LE can take NE or LN, but not N, CE or LG, let alone CG); and here we have gone from LE to LG, and if you take Barbarian, to use its rage/Whirling Frenzy, you need to be at least N, which is a third change. Me personally, I'd be having words about such cherry picking - in TO on the boards, yeah, you can do away with it, slightly, but in game... maybe not. Bear in mind that your Hexblade lost all of his Su abilities, so Arcane Resistance, and the Curse.

You have 5 Levels left, right?

You don't actually have any Turn Attempts, A Paladin gains turning at level 5. You could always take 1 more class, but for 1/day, is it worth it? I don't think so.

A Kensai could fit thematically. Charisma Bonus thanks to Ki Projection, and can keep Withstand to protect against AoE attacks, and can make his Signature Weapon be a +5 Equivalent Weapon, arguably one that is quite rare at this level, especially as it's made with CL15, and at the cost of "only" 1000XP. It also gets a nice little boost to his Strength.

[Stront]

What about Paladin 4 is better than a Paladin of Slaughter or Tyranny 4?

You swap Aura of Evil, Detect Good, Smite Good, Divine Grace, Deadly Touch, Debilitating Aura, and Divine Health.

You swap your Good/Evil features around; keep Divine Grace and Health, in return for swapping Lay On Hands for a Damaging Version (Will Save for Half) and Healing Undead with it, while making enemies within 10ft easier to hit/reduces enemy saves.

I must admit, one thing I like is the alignment spectrum, while I'll allow a swing of 1 place on one of the axes, outside of plot devices, I don't like players changing by 2 points (i.e a LE can take NE or LN, but not N, CE or LG, let alone CG); and here we have gone from LE to LG, and if you take Barbarian, to use its rage/Whirling Frenzy, you need to be at least N, which is a third change. Me personally, I'd be having words about such cherry picking - in TO on the boards, yeah, you can do away with it, slightly, but in game... maybe not. Bear in mind that your Hexblade lost all of his Su abilities, so Arcane Resistance, and the Curse.

You have 5 Levels left, right?

You don't actually have any Turn Attempts, A Paladin gains turning at level 5. You could always take 1 more class, but for 1/day, is it worth it? I don't think so.

A Kensai could fit thematically. Charisma Bonus thanks to Ki Projection, and can keep Withstand to protect against AoE attacks, and can make his Signature Weapon be a +5 Equivalent Weapon, arguably one that is quite rare at this level, especially as it's made with CL15, and at the cost of "only" 1000XP. It also gets a nice little boost to his Strength.

Excellent feedback and options. A paladin gets turning at 4th level, that is where I wanted to get. Just for Divine feats mostly.

[Phelix-Mu]

Excellent feedback and options. A paladin gets turning at 4th level, that is where I wanted to get. Just for Divine feats mostly.

If you are going sword and board, then Divine Shield from Complete Warrior is very good.

Not sure how barbarian feels about sword and shield, though. Depends on if you want to work on crushing melee strength or high AC for prolonged tanking. Hexblade powers might benefit more from less emphasis on full attack every round.

Remember that, should you have hexblade 4, you have a familiar, which can be a strong choice with classes that have big HD and good base attack. Improved Familiar might end up being strong enough to flank for you, and you can pick up UMD to get some of those nice familiar-related spells. Also, was there an ACF or feat to allow combining pally mount with familiar? I seem to recall one for an animal companion mount, but memory fails atm.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If you are going sword and board, you might wish to consider a power source of a different flavor...

Ironsoul Forgemaster is an excellent way to make a shield very much worth it. Basically, you've got so much energy resistance against pretty much any flavor they are going to be throwing at you that Evasion is obsolete since a failed save won't penetrate your energy resistance.

The additional DR isn't so bad either.

If you are wanting magic, you might want to consider Suel Archanamach + Abjurant Champion (advancing SA's casting). You get Dispelling Strike, effective CL = BAB, auto-quickened abjuration spells, and a whole lot of self-buffing.

Divine feats really aren't a lot to write home about, certainly not worth two character levels.

[Person_Man]

If homebrew is on the table, you may wish to look at my Hexblade fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218093). The RAW Hexblade is a fun concept, but has some serious mechanical problems. Very limited Hex uses, Arcane Resistance is weaker then Divine Grace, Mettle is rarely useful, your Familiar basically requires the Improved Familiar feat to be useful, nerfed caster level, etc.

You might also want to consider strait Warblade. With the right manuevers you can replace 1 Saving Throw per round with a Concentration check (ie, you will always pass with the mildest of optimization), and end any ongoing effect with Iron Heart Surge, plus you have all the other goodies of full BAB, d12 hit die, all your other maneuvers and stances, etc.

[Stront]

I am leaning toward: Paladin 4, Dragon Shaman 8, Pious Templar 1 at this point.

I will look at some of your latest suggestions though and see if I want to "divert"! Thanks for all the great ideas.

[Con_Brio1993]

I've found that a level in Barbarian tends to work well with most melee heavy builds.

Isn't the main purpose of the Barbarian level to take the alternate class feature and get the Lion totem for free pounce?

[Person_Man]

I am leaning toward: Paladin 4, Dragon Shaman 8, Pious Templar 1 at this point.

I will look at some of your latest suggestions though and see if I want to "divert"! Thanks for all the great ideas.

That's an odd combo.

Why Dragon Shaman?

[Keld Denar]

Original build needs more Hellreaver. It's in Fiendish Codex II, and is basically Paladin +1. Hot Fury has tons of in-combat utility.

[Stront]

That's an odd combo.

Why Dragon Shaman?

Wanted to play something that would be group friendly and act a little as a healer. Also, dragons are playing a large part of the campaign lately so wanted to be a Paladin who worships a Dragon God, "Lendys" probably.

There is storyline behind it for the campaign and I thought it would be a good group assistance type character. That being said, I like the the revision done here http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160615 much better than the actual one.