First time DM, is this an okay encounter...

[ddude987]

Hello all,
So I have been reading up a lot on cr and appropriate level encounter. I put together what would be calculated as a cr 0 ... npc warrior level 1. Cr = level - 1, 1-1=0. Is the cr actually 0 or does it just go down to 1/2? Secondly, I have a 7 man party of 42pb (just roll with it) PCs. I read in the DMG that average thugs should outnumber PCs by 50%. Would 10 level 1 warriors be an okay encounter for 7 level 1 PCs? Would the thugs ambushing the PCs in a forest make the encounter to strong? npc stats below:
Human - Warrior 1
16/14/14/10/10/8
Fort 4/ Ref 2/ Will 0
Shortsword, Leather.
WeaponFocus(Shortsword), Alertness

Thanks all!

[Story]

How optimized is the party? What kind of builds are they using?

Obviously the answer is going to be different if they can just color spray all the warriors.

[killem2]

http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/

I would use that to give your challange rating.

Then, see if it matches what you have.

I tried to do what you are doing with formulas and read the charts in the books, I gave it all up after I had that calculator. REALLY works well :smallbiggrin:

[silverwolfer]

10 level 1 warriors, versus 7 level 1 characters should be actualy even and about right.

I would rate it like this





Toughness level

1- All of them are melee

2- Most are mlee with some range

3- Some are melee with most range

4-they are all wearing shields and heavy armor with a few range


A party that large should have some spell casters, so you have buffs, and ranged attacks that should be helping balancing it out and making it a fair fight.

[nedz]

Hmm, I'd go with 11 Warriors :smalltongue:

What you can do, if you are unsure, is break your 10 warriors into 2-3 groups. You can then have these groups turn up a few rounds apart; or, if the party are really getting hammered, have the last group arrive late for some (plausible) reason. Also, if the party trash the 10 warriors too easily, you could simply have another handful of warriors turn up.

The problems you might face include:

New party therefore uncoordinated — even if the players are experienced. It can take a while for a new group to gel.
An ambush is a force multiplier — you could easily drop half the party in the surprise round.
Low level combat is very swingy — on the other hand it tends not to be too lethal, so the party could just end up as prisoners.

[sabelo2000]

You'll also find that, as a new DM, a 10-on-10 melee gets either very confusing, or very slow. That's another reason to break the encounter down into 3-enemy subsets.

Consider the following:

* You roll Spot checks/initiative for the surprise round. You roll one check for your 10 thugs, and each PC rolls separately. Now all your thugs have surprise, or none of them do. Afterwards, all 10 thugs act on the same initiative count, while the PCs are spread across the initiative order.

* You roll separate Spot/initiative checks for each thug and each PC. Now you have 17 initiative counts to track, 17 steps in the turn order, and 17 combatants each of whom may or may not have surprise.

* You roll Spot/initiative checks for your thugs in 3-man groups. Now there is a chance for the thugs to be spread amongst the surprise/initiative order, but you don't need to roll 10 different sets of dice. This also gives you a workable combat strategy; each 3-man group supports and aids its own, instead of having 10 random melee combatants or one giant 10-man front.

And, as stated before, if the PCs start to get trounced, or if they rip through your thugs too easily, you can simply introduce fresh 3-man teams, or rule that a team that loses a man gets demoralized and withdraws.

[ddude987]

Thanks guys. The party will consist of 2 fighters, 2 rogues, 1 cleric and 2 TBD.
Odds are that there will be no other spellcasters other than the cleric at 1St. I was thinking of giving the enemies a couple archers. As it is, they are all using shorts words. The multiple groups/waves is a great idea thanks.

[ddude987]

One more question:
When making creatures, to determine their health do I use the max out 1st HD and then average+1 for the rest? Or do I just use average, because the monsters in the MM use only average rolls for each HD. If this is a preference thing, than what do you normally do?

[jaynus006]

Use average, and see how your party fares, you can always lower/raise the HP

[ddude987]

Use average, and see how your party fares, you can always lower/raise the HP

Thanks a bunch!

[Diarmuid]

One part of your question that went unanswered was about the ambush.

Favorable terrain/setup does indeed boost the Encounter Level. Taking the combined CR's as the only factor into the EL assumes the party and the opposing force are going to become aware of each other at the same time and square off in a battle royale.

If you've got the NPC's hiding ahead of time and they're in a position to flank the party, or your archers are up in trees or behind cover that makes them harder to get at/kill them those things would boost the Encounter level in theory.

[Trasilor]

Wait a second, 10 combatants ambush a party of 7 level one pcs? At level one, PCs are painfully squishy. This could easily turn into a TPK.:smalleek:

I have seen many first level PC's taken down with one lucky blow.

Now, if the PC's have an opportunity to spot/identify the attackers before the ambush, then it gets slightly better.

[killem2]

Wait a second, 10 combatants ambush a party of 7 level one pcs? At level one, PCs are painfully squishy. This could easily turn into a TPK.:smalleek:

I have seen many first level PC's taken down with one lucky blow.

Now, if the PC's have an opportunity to spot/identify the attackers before the ambush, then it gets slightly better.

I also agree. It is why I linked the calculator. I also used to figured stuff up on a 1 by 1 basis, then creep it up a bit. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. When my group of 6, were all level 2, I through an entire dining room of level 1 orc fighters (prob like 25 of them) and they got the suprise they ended up taking out a few, but they almost go over ran.


it is also why I mock up battles since I have my players sheets copied.