Witch hexes still and silent?

[Straymind]

I'm DMing a Skulls and Shackles and someone in my game is a Sea Witch who took Extra Hex at first level to get Cackle and Misfortune.

A reminder:

Cackle
Cackle (Su): A witch can cackle madly as a move action. Any creature that is within 30 feet that is under the effects of an agony hex, charm hex, evil eye hex, fortune hex, or misfortune hex caused by the witch has the duration of that hex extended by 1 round.

Misfortune
Misfortune (Su): The witch can cause a creature within 30 feet to suffer grave misfortune for 1 round. Anytime the creature makes an ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, it must roll twice and take the worse result. A Will save negates this hex. At 8th level and 16th level, the duration of this hex is extended by 1 round. This hex affects all rolls the target must make while it lasts. Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this hex again for 1 day.

Now my question is this; Can Witch hexes be detected like other non-metamagic'd spells?

The Witch wanted to use his hex to give his Fighter buddy a leg up in a "no magic allowed" fistfight with the consequences of breaking this rule being forfeiture of the money put up for betting and some other consequences.

Since the fighter started with 20 STR from a lucky roll he won anyways, and I told the witch that he couldn't hex anyone or else the fight would be forfeit. Can he hex without being detected?

Also beyond just being kind of creepy can someone tell if the cackling of the witch is a hex as well?

[andromax]

'Supernatural abilities are magical, and thus their effects
would produce magical auras. Although the detect magic spell
doesn’t have a line entry for supernatural effect, you can use
the same line as “Magic item (caster level)”—a supernatural
effect’s caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice unless
noted otherwise (Monster Manual, page 315).'

This is from the FAQ.

[Straymind]

'Supernatural abilities are magical, and thus their effects
would produce magical auras. Although the detect magic spell
doesn’t have a line entry for supernatural effect, you can use
the same line as “Magic item (caster level)”—a supernatural
effect’s caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice unless
noted otherwise (Monster Manual, page 315).'

This is from the FAQ.

That answers the kind of behind the scenes mechanics, and I appreciate it, but my question is more "if the Witch is standing in front of someone can he hex them without them knowing they've been hexed?"


Would he catch a beat-down for hexing someone in the same way as if he cast bane on them.

[andromax]

I'm not really familiar with PF, but if it's like D&D - you bet your ass.

[Feralventas]

Usually if you've Failed the save against something like this, you aren't aware of it, but if you make the save then you'll be aware that something is trying to disrupt your actions.

More so, it's called Cackle; seems against the fluff if they're doing it at any less than 20 decibels.

[andromax]

Some relevant rules.. not sure if theyre the same in PF but..

Succeeding on a Saving Throw
A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.

He would get beat down if they passed their save, probably because they would use detect magic, or if they were smart they would see a witch cackling at them and feel a hostile force at the same time. They might not know exactly what is happening but they would know that the witch is attacking them with magic.

[Grollub]

As far as I know.. all hexes are supernatural abilities, and as such have no verbal/somatic component.. anything otherwise would be fluff.

As for hexing someone... if they make the save to resist it, then they know SOMETHING just tried to mess with them, but not necessarily what.

If they fail the save, they dont notice what happened right away, but maybe thru their actions could notice.

[Grollub]

As well.. even if you rule that a witch needs to make an auditory "cackle" with the Cackle Hex, it would be pretty dumb if every NPC attacked someone because they are laughing/cackling.

More then likely they would think the person insane, for laughing non-stop, least til they noticed an effect.. or experienced witch cackling and know what is going on.

Imo it's sort of metagaming to assume anyone who "cackles" is using hexes. ( could be a great way for someone to think you are a witch too )

[Matticussama]

If the NPC succeeds on a roll with the appropriate knowledge skills, then they should be able to recognize the difference between a normal laugh and a witch's cackle.

Furthermore, the person who decreed the no-magic duel would probably have some way to enforce it for just this purpose. You don't just declare it no-magic and take someone's word on it; there are too many buffing spells with a long duration that you could get before the fight, or silent/still spells just like this. All it takes is a level 1 spellcaster casting Detect Magic to know something is up, and thereby forfeit the duel if magic is used.

[Straymind]

Okay, thanks a lot guys. I think in the future my NPCs are going to be more wary of the 7'2" Mwangi with a magical goat following him around.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Some hexes are Su, some are Sp, some are even Ex. Each hex actually says what it is.

In any case, Su, Sp, and Ex all don't need to make sounds or have weird arcane movements, so to answer your thread title: Yes.

Cackle is a special case, due to what it is. Cackle does make sound, though nothing at all about it requires that sound to be heard by the target NOR does the text state how loud it must be. Since you need to use Cackle to keep the Charm hex running and laughing loudly and madly in most public situations would be awkward to do, I lean on the side of "the witch can choose how loud or soft to cackle." Softest cackling would be the volume of a whisper, which the perception/listen skill has a DC to hear. Just my opinion on how to handle it.

As for if others are aware, I would use the rules for spells without obvious/visual effects, as quoted above. Target saves, he knows someone tried to mess with his head, he fails and is unaware. Or if the hex is cackle, making the appropriate listen check would also make people aware the witch is doing something.

[Straymind]

Thanks guys!