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Alias
2013-01-25, 11:07 AM
Hello all. Thought occurred to me that it might be fun to explore the characters of the OOTS under the alignment system I use in my campaign. It is very alignment driven - everything in the setting has an alignment - but the catch is, this isn't law/chaos, good/evil alignment.

The system is known as pentaphilosophical, or "five philosophy" alignment. It was initially inspired by Magic: The Gathering but some of the principles stretch back far, far further, such as the principles of Chinese alchemy (Wood, Metal, Stone, Air, Water) and similar five element models, like Legend of the Five Rings, do exist. The form it takes in my setting has over time become very removed from its inspiration points.

The reason for that is this - while I want alignment in my game, I don't want alignment to be a basis for "friend or foe". To that end I've given the alignments made up words to more fully separate them from whatever emotional tie the previous color labels had - especially in the case of the alignments that were 'white' and 'black'.

So, before I can state what characters I feel are which alignments under this system, I must in brief state what each alignment means. Further, all of the alignments draw part of their identity from their relations to the other four. So, here goes...

Part I - The Alignments

Valra
Valra is the alignment of community, law, structure, subservience and civilization. It clings tightly to the old proverb, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." It is an alignment which calls upon individuals to give up their individuality to serve the community at large. Its adherents seek perfect harmony between all individuals even if those individuals must mute themselves significantly. Valran spells glow yellow under the scrutiny of detect magic.

Valra is opposed by Sodra, which represents individuals and whose adherents champion the individual rights and freedoms that Valra seeks to quash in order to bring about harmony. It is also opposed by Shunra, an alignment which shuns the massive complexity of Valran law and structure and would prefer a simpler life.

Valra is sympathetic to Balcra, an alignment that shares with Valra a love of knowledge. If only Balcra would learn that some facts and theories must not be explored for the sake of society. Valra also finds an ally in Abora since both have a love of communal structures, though Valra doesn't approve of the more viscious forms Abora's natural community sometimes takes.

Balcra
Balcra is the alignment of knowledge, order, purity, and the physical elements air and water. It is a champion of both the gathering and the spread of knowledge and science. It is an alignment of endless inquiry, curiousity and seeks to take the world apart to understand it better. Its adherents seek only to know all that which can be known. Balcran magic glows blue under the scrutiny of detect magic.

Balcra is opposed by Shunra which is illogical, emotional, irrational, chaotic and impulsive, all things Balcra despises. Balcra is opposed to Abora since that alignment holds that the world cannot be understood piecemeal but only holistically - further Balcra chafes at the Aboran notion that people are born to destiny and fate - concepts Balcra soundly refuses to believe in.

Balcra is sympathetic to Sodra since they both crave knowledge. But Sodra seeks knowledge to advance the self, where Balcra passes no such judgement on knowledge. Likewise Valra is endeared to Balcra as well, but this lack of passing judgements on knowledge infuriates Valran thinking just as much.

Sodra
Sodra is the alignment of the Individualism, Independence, Strife, Acquisition, Confidence and Mortality. Sodra's adherence are very much into the idea of being all that they can be and not backing down from any challenge to prove themselves. Sodran magic glows violet under the scrutiny of detect magic.

Valra calls Sodra selfish, Sodra sees Valra as tyrannical and loathsome because it seeks (in Sodra's eyes) to take away the very freedom which make life worth living. Abora calls Sodra irresponsible but Sodra refuses to buy into the idea that nature is unable to adapt to the actions of men, nor is it willing to buy into the idea that both its opposed alignments put forward that communities are more important than individuals. They are not to Sodra - communities exist to serve their people, and unless everyone gains from them they serve no purpose.

Sodra finds Balcra comforting since its pursuit of knowledge can be used to strengthen and educate the self. If only Balcra wasn't so willing to shed off the things that make being alive so much fun in that pursuit. In Shunra the alignment of Sodra sees a celebration of freedom and life, but Shunra should learn to temper its impulses more.

Shunra
Shunra pursues simplicity, emotion, passion, and is associated with the physical elements fire and earth and the magic of Shunra is well known for its violence. While Shunra's adherents aren't stupid, they aren't plodding thinkers either. The are quick to anger but quick to forgive, constantly acting, constantly in motion. Those who don't understand the alignment use the term Chaotic to describe it, but Shunra doesn't act without any reason, though as often as not whim is the only reason it has. Under detect magic shunran spells glow red.

Shunra dislikes Balcra because it is a coldly logical, inactive, plodding, plotting alignment. The conflict of these colors isn't so much philosophical as tempermental. Shunra dislikes Valra because it seeks to control Shunra and dictate to Shunra what it can and cannot do through law. While Shunra might abide with some basic guidelines - don't kill, don't steal, the complicated laws and arrangements of Valra are just so much nonsense it would rather be free.

Shunra sees in Sodra a fellow seeker of freedom. If only Sodra would live a little more and not be so obsessive with this idea of personal perfection. Shunra sees in Abora a lover of nature and passions, but Abora also just needs to unwind a bit and not worry so much with maintaining things.

Abora
Abora is the alignment of nature and the physical world. Where the other four seek change in the world, Abora likes the world as it is and wants it to remain without change. Abora believes in fate, destiny and that the will and way of the world will have its say before any individual will can. Such things Abora perceives as illusory. Aborans hold that we are born to our fate and nothing will change that. Under the analysis of detect magic the spells of Abora glow green.

Abora is opposed to Balcra because it puts forth this idea that the world can somehow be subdivided and modeled. The whole Abora argues is more than the sum of the parts. Further, Balcra holds that knowledge allows someone to become more than they are, but Abora holds that such will is an illusion - that learning won't occur unless the capacity was already there. Abora isn't so much opposed to Sodra as it sees its transient concerns as being inconsequential. Why worry with the self when the self cannot endure. Only communities, only the world itself endures - why not work to build these things up instead.

Abora is sympathetic to Valra's push for harmony, but it is unwilling to see passion and instinct quashed for that goal. Further it finds Valra's willingness to explore some of Balcra's crazier ideas to be disturbing. Abora tolerates Shunra much like a parent tolerates a violent child, hoping one day Shunra learns to reign itself in and not give into self serving indulgences.

Part II: The Order of the Stick

Roy Greenhilt - Valra / Balcra
Roy is about evenly balanced between two sympathetic alignments. That's ok, because this system no only allows but expects characters to have multiple alignments, even if they are opposed in what they think is right and what they seek - cognitive dissonance if you will. Roy generally follows what custom and tradition demand unless his sense of logic and fair play tell him that's wrong.

Durkon - Valra
Durkon, like most members of the order, is mono-aligned, in his case to Valra. He's so strongly tied to this alignment that its hard to make any argument for any other alignment he might have at all.

Haley Starshine - Sodra
Haley is a likeable character, but self absorbed, greedy and selfish - all Sodran traits - but she's willing to do the right thing. She really hasn't changed that much and she is a stellar example of Sodra's nice side. An argument can be made that she's picked up Shunran traits as the story has progressed, and while I won't argue that she doesn't favor that sympathetic alignment, it doesn't truly drive her.

Durkon and Haley have opposed alignments - but that doesn't make them blood enemies like in the classic alignment system. It does mean they should be expected to squabble sometimes and we have seen that.

Elan - Shunra
Note that bards are *required* to have Shunra as one of their alignments as a class, and Elan is a poster example for while. Childishness aside, passion and emotion drive everything he does. He is iconic to his alignment as Durkon is for Valra. And again, these are enemy alignments, but the characters aren't enemies - but they do argue. Sodra is sympathetic to Shunra, and has Haley ever not taken Elan's side in an argument with Durkon?

Belkar - Shunra / Sodra
Like bards, barbarians must be Shunran. Belkar is a hedonist, and when the passion of Shunra combines evenly with Sodra that's usually what you get. That he's a psychotic little creep is a separate issue.

Varsuvius - Balcra / Shunra
V's alignments are typical for the wizard class - more than three quarters of their spells are aligned with these two colors and I don't think I've seen V cast any spells that isn't from one of these two alignments. V has an alignment that is dissonant. From Balcra V gets his love of intellect, usually careful planning, and willingness to study for very long periods towards a goal. From Shunra V shows impatience, haste, and anyone who casts disintegrate - a shunran spell - as often as V is going to have Shunra as an alignment out of sheer casting taint. As was once said, you don't use the tools of chaos without becoming chaotic. Do you master the magic, or does the magic master you?


Part III: Team Evil
Xykon - Sodra

If Haley is 'good' Sodra, Xykon is 'evil' Sodra. Xykon was once Shunra / Sodra, but becoming a lich had effects on him which remove that alignment - particularly the inability to feel love. Like Haley he trends towards the Shunran side of Sodra.

Redcloak - Shunra / Valra
Recloak is in the process of using a very elaborate plan to bring about a highly chaotic end - as such his alignments reflect that and he's another character who's alignment carries dissonance, and a lot of it.

Monster in the Dark - Abora / Shunra
Instinctual and childlike behavior define MitD, and they are where Abora and Shunra meet.

Tsukiko - Balcra / Sodra
Tsukiko is a great example of intelligence not meaning wisdom. She's probably one of the smartest characters in the story, but definitely not the wisest. Striving for knowledge for personal gain is the hallmark of this pairing, and Tsukiko definitely bore that trait, even if she interpreted the facts she gathered rather incorrectly.

Part IV: The Linear Guild
Nate - Balcra
Overcomplicated, plodding, planning, and most every spell he seems to know is Balcran.

Sabine - Shunra
Who says opposites can't attract? Sabine's loyalty is driven by her attractions, and for the moment, for whatever reason, that lies with Nale.

Thog - Abora / Shunra
Thog is indicative of the worst these two alignments have to offer when combined - an unthinking brute.

Tarquin - Sodra / Valra
Yet another example of opposite alignments in one character - Tarquin uses law and societal convention for his own benefit to great effect.

Part V: Notable Others
Eugene Greenhilt - Balcra / Sodra
Father shares a love of knowledge with his son (just not the same type of knowledge), and then skews to the other end of that alignment. Where Roy is selfless, Eugene is selfish, and the list goes on. A good example of two characters sharing something in common while being apart.

Celina - Balcra
Being a sylph makes her a Balcran outsider, and she is a poster child for how this alignment works in every possible way with hilarious results. She trends towards the Valran side of her alignment strongly and I can see an argument that she has that alignment as well (and hence shares Roy's alignment)


---
If anyone reads all this, I'll be surprised. However, thanks to you if you did. I found this rather fun to do.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-01-25, 11:25 AM
This shows a lot of work! I enjoyed reading your incarnations of philosophies that represent your five alignment figures, and found them intriguing. Did you base them off of anything heavily or was most of it developed by you? Either way, its always impressive to see someone construct an alignment chart that they understand and can readily and easily explain, so props!

Some questions: Can someone have more than two alignments?

Do you see personality and alignment as the same thing?

Do you plan on going into more characters, like Durukon's party with Soon and Girard and such? What about Tarquin and such?

Alias
2013-01-25, 12:29 PM
This shows a lot of work! I enjoyed reading your incarnations of philosophies that represent your five alignment figures, and found them intriguing. Did you base them off of anything heavily or was most of it developed by you?

It started from Magic: The Gathering, but over ten years it's moved away. Most critically, what Sodra (what was black) and Valra (which was white) changed significantly so that Sodra can be convincingly good and Valra convincingly evil without using stretched interpretations of alignment. I also de-emphasized color in the alignment naming to further push this away from the card game, and its grown on me with time.


Either way, its always impressive to see someone construct an alignment chart that they understand and can readily and easily explain, so props!

Thanks.


Some questions: Can someone have more than two alignments?

Yes, but past two alignments characters become more defined by the traits they are lacking than the ones they possess. Roy is close to that line - he is occasionally impulsive which calls to Shunra and definitely believes in a calling which calls to Abora. He lacks a selfish bone in his body though, so he won't have a Sodran alignment at all.

In play the rule is this - a first level character has 1 alignment representing his background. I'll allow players who I trust to start with 2 if they have a clear idea of where the character is going. Certain classes have required alignments - Monks must be Valran, Bards and Barbarians Shunran, Druids and Rangers Aboran, and paladins must be exclusively Valran. All deities have two alignments and a cleric must choose one of those two alignments. For all other classes, if a player is unsure of their alignment the default alignment of their class will be assigned to them as follows: fighter - Valra, rogue - Sodra, wizard - Balcra. Sorcerers are a special case - I'll watch the spells the player chooses, whatever alignment is in the majority of those spells will be shared by the color.

Keep in mind that having an alignment means making a commitment to the principles of the alignment, not just acting in ways stereotypical of the alignment. Haley often acts chaotically, associated with Shunra, but chaos and simplicity have never been her goals. A character's alignment in this system indicates what she'll label as "good" and "evil" - and those can be very different -- which is why those terms as alignments themselves are so loaded.

As play progresses players may pick up another alignment temporarily or permanently at any time depending on what they do. Atonement can remove alignments, but otherwise past alignments do not disappear. The system is additive and inclusive, which ignores a huge swath of alignment arguments since the old system requires an alignments be removed as part of a change.

Casting spells 7th level or higher will assign the alignment of the spell to the character temporarily, or permanently if 4 such spells are cast in a 24 hour period.

The more alignments you have, the more spell sensitive spells will hit you. Also, some spells and magic items cannot be cast unless you have a pure alignment.


Do you see personality and alignment as the same thing?

This alignment system can inform you what types of personalities a person is likely to have, but it doesn't control them. The role of this alignment system is to define the values the character believes in most strongly and the values the character abhors. It can be oddly both - like we see this in both Tarquin and Redcloak who very much have an end justifies the means slant on how they combine their opposed philosophies. V on the other hand presents a character who would rather be rid of his baser tendencies, especially now that they've come back to haunt him.


Do you plan on going into more characters, like Durukon's party with Soon and Girard and such? What about Tarquin and such?

I mentioned Tarquin with the linear guild. I can continue to do this, but I would encourage others to put forth their own theories as well.

TheWombatOfDoom
2013-01-25, 12:34 PM
I mentioned Tarquin with the linear guild. I can continue to do this, but I would encourage others to put forth their own theories as well.

Ah so you did. :smallredface:

ChristianSt
2013-01-25, 06:29 PM
Looks interesting.
Only problem with it is being a avid Magic player I get behind the color wheel and what its stand for, but not calling it WURBG (white, blue, black, red, green) is quite weird for me - first thing I did was drawing the color weel and labeling your alignment names on it.


As for the actual alignments, I think most are quite fine. Only characters I strongly disagree is Nale and Redcloak.

Sure, Nale makes complicated plans, but I don't have the feeling that Nale wants to learn how the world works. I would more or less put him more to Sodra/Shunra (Shunra maybe a bit questionable, but I have the feeling he has a bad temper and I think his quirky ideas would fit that nicely. He is a egocentric bastard, so I think Sodra is sure). Before Balcra I would even put him to Valra (because he sticks to the things he thinks started, i.e. the evil-opposite theme).

On Redcloak I see nothing Shunra-like. Sure, maybe he is ok with unleashing the chaotic horror on the universe (which is only plan B), but his charakter is not one bit what I would attribute to Shunra. I would put him more in a Valra/Sodra (Sodra because he pursiuts his goal, no matter what it costs (especially to others))


[My assignments could be a bit off, especially if you think they are not that close to the Magic-WUBRG, but from that reading I got, I thought their close enough, and thought more or less in these terms and sometimes cross-checked]

Kish
2013-01-25, 06:32 PM
Viewing the alignments entirely detached from the color wheel, I really don't see anything chaotic about Redcloak's plan, either. It's not like he (thinks he) doesn't know what the Snarl will do if unleashed, after all. In universal obliteration is perfect order.

lio45
2013-01-26, 07:31 PM
Viewing the alignments entirely detached from the color wheel, I really don't see anything chaotic about Redcloak's plan, either. It's not like he (thinks he) doesn't know what the Snarl will do if unleashed, after all. In universal obliteration is perfect order.

At first sight, that would actually be perfect disorder, as the obliterated universe would have no arranged matter any more (maximum entropy).

Alias
2013-01-28, 10:37 AM
Looks interesting.
Only problem with it is being a avid Magic player I get behind the color wheel and what its stand for, but not calling it WURBG (white, blue, black, red, green) is quite weird for me - first thing I did was drawing the color weel and labeling your alignment names on it.


As for the actual alignments, I think most are quite fine. Only characters I strongly disagree is Nale and Redcloak.

Sure, Nale makes complicated plans, but I don't have the feeling that Nale wants to learn how the world works. I would more or less put him more to Sodra/Shunra (Shunra maybe a bit questionable, but I have the feeling he has a bad temper and I think his quirky ideas would fit that nicely. He is a egocentric bastard, so I think Sodra is sure). Before Balcra I would even put him to Valra (because he sticks to the things he thinks started, i.e. the evil-opposite theme).

I can see that.


On Redcloak I see nothing Shunra-like. Sure, maybe he is ok with unleashing the chaotic horror on the universe (which is only plan B), but his charakter is not one bit what I would attribute to Shunra. I would put him more in a Valra/Sodra (Sodra because he pursiuts his goal, no matter what it costs (especially to others))

Here's the thing, Sodra (and black) are, if anything, supremely selfish. Redcloak is anything but selfish - everything he does is for the good of the goblin people. I can see arguments for Valra and Balcra (his weird elementals). Shunra is a testament to his temper and emotions clouding his judgement - if he'd stop and be entirely analytical he'd understand Xykon is just too dangerous to use and there's got to be a better way. But he keeps throwing in good money after bad as it where.

He's one of those characters that's more defined by the attributes he lacks than the ones he has. Abora and Sodra and entirely absent from him, so perhaps a 3 alignment assignment would work best.



[My assignments could be a bit off, especially if you think they are not that close to the Magic-WUBRG, but from that reading I got, I thought their close enough, and thought more or less in these terms and sometimes cross-checked]

They are fairly close most of the time.