Shadow Conjuration and Mage Armor

[thompur]

How does Mage Armor(Conjuration-Creation) work with Shadow Conjuration? Does it simply fail, since the caster is casting it on himself, or would an attacker need to make a Will Save to render it ineffective against that opponent?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It's Target: Creature Touched, so the creature you're casting it on would be making the save. You can voluntarily fail a saving throw just like any other, though I think there was a very strong argument from somewhere official that you cannot voluntarily fail a will save against your own illusion. Something about the prior knowledge that it's an illusion and it being impossible for it to be real enough to genuinely fool yourself.

"...and all special abilities that do not deal lethal damage are only 20% likely to work." That means it's only 20% likely to grant the armor bonus, with the check being made at the time it's cast. You don't even need to roll if the target (voluntarily) fails the Will save.

[TuggyNE]

How does Mage Armor(Conjuration-Creation) work with Shadow Conjuration? Does it simply fail, since the caster is casting it on himself, or would an attacker need to make a Will Save to render it ineffective against that opponent?

Neither one; as Biff says, you either have a 20% chance of making it work, checked at casting time, or a 100% chance, depending on whether you're allowed to auto-fail saves against your own illusion spells, or instead auto-succeed.

[Acanous]

The Shadow and Phantasm subschools of illusion are (Usually) exempt from any auto-succeed houserules (Phantasms because they state things like "This can be turned back on the caster", and Shadow because they are partially real)

By RAW, it works. Fail the save when casting it upon yourself. Bam. Mage Armor.

This is also how people get away with shadow contingency.

[Spuddles]

Anyone attacking you gets a will save to disbelieve.

See the actual rules text:

"Any creature that interacts with the conjured object, force, or creature can make a Will save to recognize its true nature."

I don't see any "only targeted creature" or "only the caster gets to decide how this works" rules.

[TuggyNE]

Anyone attacking you gets a will save to disbelieve.

See the actual rules text:

"Any creature that interacts with the conjured object, force, or creature can make a Will save to recognize its true nature."

I don't see any "only targeted creature" or "only the caster gets to decide how this works" rules.

Hmm, you're right; that complicates things, as now you have to roll a will save and then a d10 to see if they ignore your armor every time someone attacks you.

[Spuddles]

Hmm, you're right; that complicates things, as now you have to roll a will save and then a d10 to see if they ignore your armor every time someone attacks you.

Spellcasters? Complicated rules? Well I never!

[Oscredwin]

Hmm, you're right; that complicates things, as now you have to roll a will save and then a d10 to see if they ignore your armor every time someone attacks you.

Wouldn't they only have to roll the first time?

[Rogue Shadows]

Hmm, you're right; that complicates things, as now you have to roll a will save and then a d10 to see if they ignore your armor every time someone attacks you.

Idle point - do you have to make a save? The text says "can make a will save" not "must make a will save." That, to me, implies that the save is optional at the discretion of the one required to make the save.

[TuggyNE]

Wouldn't they only have to roll the first time?

That doesn't simplify it much in practice, since now you have to track who's tried swinging at you. :smallyuk:

[Yukitsu]

It's Target: Creature Touched, so the creature you're casting it on would be making the save. You can voluntarily fail a saving throw just like any other, though I think there was a very strong argument from somewhere official that you cannot voluntarily fail a will save against your own illusion. Something about the prior knowledge that it's an illusion and it being impossible for it to be real enough to genuinely fool yourself.

"...and all special abilities that do not deal lethal damage are only 20% likely to work." That means it's only 20% likely to grant the armor bonus, with the check being made at the time it's cast. You don't even need to roll if the target (voluntarily) fails the Will save.

You know, I did a case study on myself to see how effectively I could trick myself into believing in the placebo effect's effect even though I knew it was a placebo. Turns out that statistically works.

Disclaimer: Potentially only if you're motivated to make your test statistically significant, but that just adds another layer of mental gymnastics to bore through to trick yourself into feeling healthy.

[TuggyNE]

You know, I did a case study on myself to see how effectively I could trick myself into believing in the placebo effect's effect even though I knew it was a placebo. Turns out that statistically works.

Disclaimer: Potentially only if you're motivated to make your test statistically significant, but that just adds another layer of mental gymnastics to bore through to trick yourself into feeling healthy.

Did you document it in a double-blind study, and if so, how would you know? :smalltongue: