[PF] Weapon proficiencies without a martial dip.

[Teh_das]

I'm building a character to progress into arcane archer and eldritch knight, though the one thing holding me back is proficiency with all martial weapons.

I've got most of the build planned, but is there any way to get proficiency with all martial weapons without a class dip? I'm looking at battle sorcerer 6/EK2/AA4/EK+8

[Acanous]

You'll be needing a Loooot of feats for that.
http://www.pathfindersrd.com/feats/combat-feats/martial-weapon-proficiency---final

You need to take the feat for each type of martial weapon, save any weapons with your race name in them, which you get for free.

It's really better to just dip a level in Fighter.

[Teh_das]

that's what I was hoping to avoid. Is there a prestige class that grants proficiency as well as advancing casting at first level?

[Morcleon]

Play an aasimar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-aasimar) or tiefling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-tiefling). As an outsider (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Outsider), you get all simple and martial weapon proficiencies for free. :smallsmile:

[Mystral]

Maybe look for a different prestige class then eldritch knight? There are many, many classes that are better for a fighter/mage archetype, even for an archer. Maybe Spellsword or Abjurant Champion.

Tiefling/Aasimar won't work, Arcane Archer is Elf-exclusive.

[Ravens_cry]

Maybe look for a different prestige class then eldritch knight? There are many, many classes that are better for a fighter/mage archetype, even for an archer. Maybe Spellsword or Abjurant Champion.

Tiefling/Aasimar won't work, Arcane Archer is Elf-exclusive.
Not in Pathfinder it isn't (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/arcane-archer) since some recent erreta.

[Mystral]

Was not aware of this, thank you for correcting me.

[Teh_das]

I also looked into the links posted, I didn't see anything noting that Aasimar or Tiefling recieve martial weapon proficiency.

Also, I dont think that the DM would let me take Abjurant Champion or any non PF prestige class. even getting battle sorceror is a stretch.

[Morcleon]

I also looked into the links posted, I didn't see anything noting that Aasimar or Tiefling recieve martial weapon proficiency.

Also, I dont think that the DM would let me take Abjurant Champion or any non PF prestige class. even getting battle sorceror is a stretch.

Aasimar and tiefling are both outsiders, thus they get outsider traits (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Outsider), which include proficiency with all simple and martial weapons.


Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.

Battle sorcerer isn't particularly good, btw. It loses you spells. True, you may get some other small boosts, but your spells can buff you for fighting as well, if not better. :smallsmile:

[Mystral]

Another way you could realize your idea would be the barcher. As in, an archery focused Bard branching into arcane archer.

Or, you might have your DM look into this homebrewed magus archetype:

http://steeldraco.wordpress.com/2011/09/08/arcane-archer-as-a-magus-archetype/

[Stone Heart]

Aasimar and tiefling are both outsiders, thus they get outsider traits (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Outsider), which include proficiency with all simple and martial weapons.


I am fairly certain this has been specified as wrong recently, as without racial hit dice, those proficiency's are replaced by the proficiency of whatever class they took or something like that.

I will try to find the precise ruling for how it operates, but I am fairly certain that just being any of the outsider races (Aasimar, tiefling, fetchling Suli, Sylph, Oread, Ifrit and Undine) does not grant the proficiency anymore.

Edit: Found the related post on the paizo boards pretty quickly. Here it is. (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lhtm?Clarification-request-Do-AasimarsTiefling#11)

[tyckspoon]

I am fairly certain this has been specified as wrong recently, as without racial hit dice, those proficiency's are replaced by the proficiency of whatever class they took or something like that.

I will try to find the precise ruling for how it operates, but I am fairly certain that just being any of the outsider races (Aasimar, tiefling, fetchling Suli, Sylph, Oread, Ifrit and Undine) does not grant the proficiency anymore.

Edit: Found the related post on the paizo boards pretty quickly. Here it is. (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lhtm?Clarification-request-Do-AasimarsTiefling#11)

... *facepalm* Pathinder Devs being all Pathfinder Devs again. I find his argument utterly unconvincing and smacking of 'I wouldn't use that in my personal game, therefore it must be wrong and overpowered' (see also almost everything they've ever said about Monk features.) Features are related to Racial Hit Dice. Traits are *not*. That's *why* there is a distinction between the two in the first place. You do not need to have Racial Hit Dice to have the Traits of a type, and the statement that you do is entirely unsupported by any existent rule or precedent.

[StreamOfTheSky]

The proficiency in all martial weapons is just code for, "pay 1 CL." The price of EK is losing 2 caster levels (also one from 1st level). That is the intent, and obviously the devs aren't going to green light any tricks around paying that price. The logic is certainly flawed, though. If it were 3E, those outsiders would all be (often unfairly, but oh well) priced at LA +1 and thus avoided by casters like the plague anyway. But PF buffed the races and decided not to even touch the whole LA thing, creating that rules disconnect.

You could always go 12 levels in Sorc, then dip AA, get the martial proficiencies, and then go EK. You'll never be able to finish EK in a normal game that route, but if it's an epic level game, it'd be an option to reduce CL losses.

Otherwise, I would either go AA 4 (never go more than 4 levels in AA) *or* EK 10, but not both. Too costly to CL. I will say AA sucks pretty badly, and the only reason to take it IMO is to use Imbue Arrow with Antimagic Field and other such fun. Aside from that, EK is basically just plainly better in every way imaginable.

[Stone Heart]

Seeing as they are the ones who make the game, wouldn't all the new rules and archetypes and everything in pathfinder then be how they would "do it in their personal game?" If you don't like it don't play pathfinder, it's that simple.

Honestly, I think it makes more sense to me that they get their proficiency from either their racial HD or the class levels, but we obviously have different opinions. As such, in your personal game you can run it however you like. Thats the beauty of tabletop games.

However, if you want to follow the official ruling, then thats how it is.

[Lord_Gareth]

Seeing as they are the ones who make the game, wouldn't all the new rules and archetypes and everything in pathfinder then be how they would "do it in their personal game?" If you don't like it don't play pathfinder, it's that simple.

Honestly, I think it makes more sense to me that they get their proficiency from either their racial HD or the class levels, but we obviously have different opinions. As such, in your personal game you can run it however you like. Thats the beauty of tabletop games.

However, if you want to follow the official ruling, then thats how it is.

This would be a much better sentiment if the developers of Pathfinder weren't despicable human beings with no grasp of game design and a wretched sense of professionalism readily outstripped by that of a flailing four year old. Some of us would rather play the game without having to alter our table based on SKR's latest hissy fit or completely deranged errata (see: Flurry of Blows).

[Stone Heart]

This would be a much better sentiment if the developers of Pathfinder weren't despicable human beings with no grasp of game design and a wretched sense of professionalism readily outstripped by that of a flailing four year old. Some of us would rather play the game without having to alter our table based on SKR's latest hissy fit or completely deranged errata (see: Flurry of Blows).

Obviously I must have missed something really bad for you to hate them this much, so my perspective is quite different than yours. The flurry of blows thing was strange I will admit but its been resolved to work as 99% of people thought it should (as opposed to the weird must be dual wielding etc thing) but none of that tells me that they are despicable human beings.

That said, if you have this much hate for them, don't play their game and don't buy their products. If they have no grasp of game design as you claim then you would have no reason to use any of their stuff. Obviously I disagree so I will continue to play pathfinder and buy Paizo products.

[Lord_Gareth]

Obviously I must have missed something really bad for you to hate them this much, so my perspective is quite different than yours. The flurry of blows thing was strange I will admit but its been resolved to work as 99% of people thought it should (as opposed to the weird must be dual wielding etc thing) but none of that tells me that they are despicable human beings.

Dig up the record on how they treated the playtesters during the beta and how they continue to treat anyone who disagrees with them. Mr. Reynolds doesn't even bother hiding it.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Or read SKR's defense of the PF Vow of Poverty, which is abominably horrible.

It basically amounted to, "Monk who forsakes worldly possessions is a stupid concept that should suck, and if you want to play a character like that you deserve to be weak." With a handy side of him offering a hint on how to break the spirit of the entire rule/concept: "You know, you're allowed one magic item, so you could always just stack a ton of things onto that one item...."

(None of that is his actual quoted words, just my summary and interpretation as I try to find the actual source)

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ok, I found this (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m8j3?Ultimate-Magic-Monks-Vow-of-Poverty#44).

I recalled immediately after SKR posting, Stormwind Tempest posting "Someone rang?" or other such hilariousness. It's possible I was thinking of some *other* massive Stormwind Fallacy failure on the devs' part, or that paizo deleted his comment. Hmm...

[Morcleon]

I am fairly certain this has been specified as wrong recently, as without racial hit dice, those proficiency's are replaced by the proficiency of whatever class they took or something like that.

I will try to find the precise ruling for how it operates, but I am fairly certain that just being any of the outsider races (Aasimar, tiefling, fetchling Suli, Sylph, Oread, Ifrit and Undine) does not grant the proficiency anymore.

Edit: Found the related post on the paizo boards pretty quickly. Here it is.


... *facepalm* Pathinder Devs being all Pathfinder Devs again. I find his argument utterly unconvincing and smacking of 'I wouldn't use that in my personal game, therefore it must be wrong and overpowered' (see also almost everything they've ever said about Monk features.) Features are related to Racial Hit Dice. Traits are *not*. That's *why* there is a distinction between the two in the first place. You do not need to have Racial Hit Dice to have the Traits of a type, and the statement that you do is entirely unsupported by any existent rule or precedent.



Traits: An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).

As weapon/armor proficiencies are listed under traits and class features, which is something gained, and as they never note that racial proficiencies are removed, then an aasimar or tiefling would still get martial weapon proficiency.

@Pathfinder in general: It fixed a few very marginal things, but has just as many, if not more, problems than 3.5. Their constant Stormwind Fallacy failures are also a big problem... -.-