Stupid question re: Blink

[Thirdtwin]

Is there a way to get rid of the 20% miss chance on all your attacks you make while blinking? At first I thought ghost touch weapons would work, but now I'm not so certain, since ghost touch specifies incorporeal and blink makes you partially ethereal. Any help would be much appreciated.

[Morcleon]

1. Get Greater Blink. Let's you control your blinking so that you are material/ethereal when you choose.

2. In CPsi, there's a weapon called the Ethereal Reaver, which allows you to see into the material/ethereal planes and strike creatures in both.

[Glimbur]

Arguably, Pierce Magical Concealment from Complete Arcane will work. It's intended to help you pierce other people's defenses, but RAW seems sound. It takes two three feats and some skill points to get it, and you hurt your CL by 8 for it.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Make physical ranged attacks. As soon as the arrow, dagger, or whatever leaves your possession, it is no longer subject to the spell and is again a mundane arrow/dagger/whatever.

This, combined w/ foes being denied dex to AC vs. your attacks, is why ring of blinking is basically an essential item for archer and thrower rogues.

If it's spells you're looking to not face failure with, you can stick to force spells or apply the Transdimensional Spell metamagic feat (+1 spell level) to a spell. Trans. spells affect both material and ethereal plane.

For melee attacks, I'm not so sure. You could just wield a Thunderlance (spell from Spell Compendium), which is a force weapon...

As mentioned, Greater Blink would also work and is a great spell.

[Zilzmaer]

Force effects extend onto the Ethereal from the Material, but not vice versa. Rules Compendium, page 51. Transdimensional Spell should work, though.

[Yuukale]

Getting Pierce Magical Concealment is quite heavy (3 feats). For archers, this would be gold on a Rogue/Scout. But archers are feat-intensive it almost has no room.

A Cloistered Cleric 1/Scout 4/Rogue 15/ would be something like:

1- Point Blank Shot (elf domain); Longwbow Focus (war domain); Knowledge Devotion; Precise Shot.

3- Travel Devotion
6- Swift Ambusher (Scout 4 Bonus); Rapid Shot
9- Improved Skirmish
12- Blind fight
15- Mage Slayer (Rogue 10 Special Ability); Pierce Magical Concealment
18- Improved Precise Shot (Rogue 13 Special Ability); Craven

And it would be missing woodland archer cuz its accuracy ain't that high...

so, would this guy have a way around other than buying countless staves of greater blinking?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Force effects extend onto the Ethereal from the Material, but not vice versa. Rules Compendium, page 51.

That's really dumb....


Getting Pierce Magical Concealment is quite heavy (3 feats). For archers, this would be gold on a Rogue/Scout. But archers are feat-intensive it almost has no room.

Again, archers don't have to worry about blink at all, because when an object leaves your possession, magical effects on you cease immediately to affect it (source: the invisibility and enlarge/reduce spells cover it pretty well). Once the arrow leaves you, it is no longer blnking. It is just a mundane (probably enhanced, though) physical object and is on the material plane.

[DEMON]

Again, archers don't have to worry about blink at all, because when an object leaves your possession, magical effects on you cease immediately to affect it (source: the invisibility and enlarge/reduce spells cover it pretty well). Once the arrow leaves you, it is no longer blnking. It is just a mundane (probably enhanced, though) physical object and is on the material plane.

I wonder if this applies to arrows fired from a bow with the Force enhancement, too. (probably depends on the point of view)

[Psyren]

Make physical ranged attacks. As soon as the arrow, dagger, or whatever leaves your possession, it is no longer subject to the spell and is again a mundane arrow/dagger/whatever.

This, combined w/ foes being denied dex to AC vs. your attacks, is why ring of blinking is basically an essential item for archer and thrower rogues.

That won't help. Blink physically puts you (and all your items) on the ethereal plane and the material plane in rapid succession; the miss chance represents the fact that any attack you make - and more importantly, any projectile you fire - can end up flying off into the ethereal. The spell says nothing about ranged attacks being treated differently than melee ones.

It's not that the spell is affecting the projectile - it's that the projectile has a chance of being on one of two different planes when fired. By your logic, firing arrows while shadow walking would cause them to rain on the material plane in random places once they get far enough away from you.


That's really dumb....

Not really; ethereal creatures are very hard to detect or retaliate against. If they were able to launch attacks on the material with impunity it would make fighting them a nightmare. Even ghosts have to manifest first before they can attack material foes.

[StreamOfTheSky]

That won't help. Blink physically puts you (and all your items) on the ethereal plane and the material plane in rapid succession; the miss chance represents the fact that any attack you make - and more importantly, any projectile you fire - can end up flying off into the ethereal. The spell says nothing about ranged attacks being treated differently than melee ones.

It doesn't need to say anything on the matter, it's self-evident. When an item leaves your possesion, any spells cast on you - and not the item itself - cease to function for it. This is basically the same effect as when a spell has its duration end, it's dismissed, or it is dispelled (which says it acts just as if the spell duration had expired). An arrow is a physical object, not an ethereal one. Once it is no longer blinking, it has no risk of ending up stuck on the ethereal plane. When a blinking creature's blink ends, do you roll d% to see if he ends up on the material or ethereal plane? No? Then why is it any different for his possessions?


Not really; ethereal creatures are very hard to detect or retaliate against. If they were able to launch attacks on the material with impunity it would make fighting them a nightmare. Even ghosts have to manifest first before they can attack material foes.

Right, it could easily be unbalanced. That doesn't mean the ruling makes sense. I'd have prefered if they just made spellcaster levels on ethereal creatures worth more CR or something. By the time a PC spellcaster can go ethereal, he's already had plenty of time to become overpowered, and iirc the lower level ethereal-granting spells don't let you attack material plane creatures at all anyway.

[Yuki Akuma]

Blink physically transports you and all of your possessions to the Ethereal Plane and back in rapid succession.

Do you think that firing an arrow after Plane Shifting to the Ethereal Plane would make it suddenly appear on the Material Plane? Because that's really what you're arguing for.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Blink physically transports you and all of your possessions to the Ethereal Plane and back in rapid succession.

Do you think that firing an arrow after Plane Shifting to the Ethereal Plane would make it suddenly appear on the Material Plane? Because that's really what you're arguing for.

Do you think when the Blink spell ends you have a chance of ending up on the Ethereal Plane? Because that's really what you're arguing for.

You notice how Plane Shift has a duration of Instantaneous, as in "no more magic here, folks"? Once it's cast, it's over. It makes a difference. It really, really does.

[Psyren]

So according to you, I can cast Shadow Walk (not instantaneous) and fire arrows onto the material plane from complete safety?

Your examples of Invisibility and Enlarge Person also don't work here - those spells specifically have clauses about objects that leave your possession. Blink does not - it just says all your attacks have a miss chance.

[Thiyr]

Do you think when the Blink spell ends you have a chance of ending up on the Ethereal Plane? Because that's really what you're arguing for.

You notice how Plane Shift has a duration of Instantaneous, as in "no more magic here, folks"? Once it's cast, it's over. It makes a difference. It really, really does.

Not quite. The spell, as he is arguing, can be represented by a line segment representing the duration. The point where it starts and stops are both defined by you being squarely on the material plane. In universe, it's 'cause the spell's designed that way (edit: i should say designed to shut the target back to the material plane after its duration is ended). Rules-wise, to say that there is a chance that you end up on the Ethereal Plane is an addition to the rules of the spell, but not a part of how the spell works.

The arrow, on the other hand, remains affected by the spell. In-universe, the moment you released the arrow, you were in the Ethereal. Once it left your posession, it stopped being affected by the spell and remained there, as the spell was not designed to shunt items leaving your possession back to the material after they are no longer affected by the spell as it does for the caster. Rules-wise, it's because there isn't an exemption for ranged weapons from the miss chance.

That said, archers ARE an easy way to get past, though not for that reason (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#seeking). Makes no sense IN universe, but from a rules perspective it negates the entire miss chance.

[Starbuck_II]

Ninja get the ability to go etheral and still attack material planers at higher levels.

[Menzath]

I saw the earlier mentioned post about force effects being "one way from material to ethereal(I don't have books with me at the moment to confirm this myself but it does come from a reliable poster. But I do know that postive and negative energy effects function differently across the material and ethereal planes as well. If what I remember is correct (which it may not be) you can cast an inflict spell across without miss chance(or cure).

[Yuukale]

does seeking actually work? I mean, sounds too god to be true.

[Psyren]

does seeking actually work? I mean, sounds too god to be true.

By RAW - yes it does, because it doesn't specify the source of the miss chance, just that it ignores it.