Artificer Help

[valen0121K]

Hi Everyone,

I’m getting ready to join a Forgotten Realms campaign. I will be playing an artificer from the Eberron Campaign Setting. The DM is starting me off at 3rd level. I have 82 points to divide up between the attributes. Can’t decide on playing a Human or a Deep Imaskari, any suggestions? Any suggestions on what feats to pick? On one of the other post, Alienist said to not take the magical aptitude or skill focus (use magic device). What about shape soulmeld (mage’s spectacles). I have will have 2,700gp to purchase equipment or craft items. The DM told me to make a list of all of the items I want to craft and then I will have to roll the item creation check for each item to see if I successfully crafted. The DM also asked me to not break the game with doing massive amounts of damage at later levels.

This is what I have so far for stats:

Human
Str-10
Dex-12
Con-14
Int-18
Wis-14
Cha-14

Deep Imaskari
Str-10
Dex-12
Con-14
Int-20
Wis-12
Cha-14

For feats I was thinking of taking Rapid Infusion, Shape Soulmeld (Mage’s Spectacles) and either Extraordinary Artisan or Legendary Artisan


Thanks,
Valen0121

[DaTedinator]

Skill Focus (UMD) is actually a great choice for low-levels, especially if you don't expect the campaign to make it past, say, 6th. Beyond that, it's still an okay choice; it's only around 12th that it actually kind of becomes a bad one. Although naturally, if your DM allows feat retraining, it's great, and you should go for it.

That said, I can't really think of a way Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles) isn't better than Skill Focus, so go with that if you go with either.

As for stats, obviously it depends on the sort of build you're going for, but some advice... Strength is basically a dump stat. An 8 is acceptable. 10 is also acceptable, though, especially at lower levels where carrying capacity is more of a factor.

Dexterity is pretty nice for you, given the lack of heavy armor proficiency, and Constitution, ideally, shouldn't come up much (you're not a frontline fighter, unless you are, in which case your Strength needs to be higher). So the smart money's on swapping them. However, I tend to prefer more hit points to a higher AC on my artificers too, so that's far from a necessity.

Intelligence and Charisma seem fine, but your Wisdom seems kinda high. The only thing you need Wisdom for is using divine scrolls. So now if you're gonna do a lot of that, then sure, a 14 is okay, but a 13 or 12 is probably better. And if you're not planning on using too many divine scrolls, a 10 is fine, maaayybe even an 8 if you're not too concerned about Will saves.

Feat choice seems solid. I tend to prefer Legendary Artisan, but if I were you, I'd get a basic idea of what I wanted to craft to start, and then pick whichever feat ends up saving you more money.

If you do swap Constitution and Dexterity, Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot aren't terrible options, either; remember that those both apply to ranged touch attacks (read: wands), too.

On the note of Rapid Infusion, though, that raises the question; how is your DM handling action points, given that you're in a Forgotten Realms game? Do you just not get any?

And remember, you're not making an item creation check, you're making item creation checks. You get one check for each spell for each day of crafting, and then one extra check for each spell upon finishing crafting. Meaning even if an item only takes one day to craft, you still get two UMD checks for each spell.

And actually, as long as we're talking crafting, consider putting some skill points in Craft (armor). You only need to be able to hit a DC 20 check, IIRC, to craft armor out of a special material, cutting the cost by two thirds. It would take half your gold, but you could, theoretically, start play with a mithral breastplate - I don't really recommend it, but you could do it. But even still, a DC 20 check lets you get a masterwork breastplate for only 117 gp, instead of the normal 350. Not really a massive savings, but nice nonetheless, and then you have the ranks, so in the future, when you want to upgrade to mithral, you can.

Oh, almost forgot to comment on race. I'd probably go Human. +2 Intelligence is nice, though, so that's not a terrible decision.

And actually, if you do go Mage's Spectacles, and if you're having trouble spending all your skill points - unlikely, but depending on your party, possible - you could consider going Azurin, netting you 1 essentia, and thus +2 on UMD. Probably not the best decision, but worth mentioning.

Oh! I was about to post, but then I had a thought. Forgotten Realms means you can take regional feats. Such as Arcane Schooling, making it so you'd never need a UMD check to activate an arcane wand or staff, yeah? Now, you've kind of already got all your feats spoken for and then some, and a time will come when it'll be all but impossible for you to fail a DC 20 UMD check. But since you're starting at a low level, I figured it was worth mentioning. Especially if feat retraining is on the table, I might take that instead of [Adjective] Artisan.

[valen0121K]

Hey DaTedinator,

This will be a long term campaign. Unfortunately the DM is not allowing me to use action points. The DM hasn’t decided if he will allow retraining. The reason I picked the Shape Soulmeld (Mage’s Spectacles) is because it gives a +4 to Decipher Script, Spellcraft and Use Magic Device vs. skill focus only giving a +3.


3rd-level Deep Imaskari Artificer

Str-10
Dex-14
Con-14
Int-20
Wis-10
Cha-14


Feats (2)
Extraordinary Artisan
Legendary Artisan


Skill Ranks
2 Appraise
6 Concentration
4 Craft - Alchemy
1 Craft - Armorsmithing
1 Craft - Blacksmithing
1 Craft - Carpentry
1 Craft - Gemcutting
1 Craft - Glassmaking
1 Craft - Leatherworking
1 Craft - Metalworking
1 Craft - Pottery
1 Craft - Sculpting
1 Craft - Stonemasonry
1 Craft - Weaponsmithing
1 Craft – Weaving
6 Decipher Script
2 Disable Device
6 Knowledge – Arcana
2 Open Lock
2 Search
6 Spellcraft
6 Use Magic Device
---
54 skill points spent



A gift from the DM, an amulet of the artificer +5 (+5 to Use Magic Device)

[DaTedinator]

Stats seem solid now.

Feat choice is reasonable, but if you don't access to action points or any sort of replacement, Rapid Infusion goes from a must-have feat to an absolutely-you-need-this-feat choice.

That said, you should talk to your DM about the no action points thing, because that's a (tiny) blow for an artificer. I'm not suggesting he just give you action points, but it's not unheard of for DMs with Artificers in non-Eberron campaigns to give the artificer some other method of hastening his infusions. My favorite is to let you hasten and infusion by cutting the duration down to being measured in rounds/level, but I've also seen DMs let Artificers hasten infusions by using a higher-level infusion slot.

And again, if he doesn't give you some other way to hasten infusions - which he doesn't need to feel like he has to, you're still a tier-one class - you need Rapid Infusion.

The obvious oddity with your skills is having one rank in all those crafts. What was the thinking behind that?

The two-rank skills are a little strange, too. Are you the only one in the party with trapfinding? If that's the case, you should at least put more ranks in Search, probably Disable Device too, but at least Search. And are you really expecting to need Appraise?

[valen0121K]

Level – 04
Race – Deep Imaskari
Class – Artificer

Str – 10
Dex – 14
Con – 14
Int – 20
Wis – 10
Cha – 14

Feats (3)
Extraordinary Artisan
Legendary Artisan
Rapid Infusion

Skills (63 skills points)
Concentration – 7 ranks
Craft (Alchemy) – 2 rank
Craft (Carpentry) – 1 rank
Craft (Cooking) – 2 rank
Craft (Metalworking) – 1 rank
Craft (Pottery) – 1 rank
Craft (Sculpting) – 1 rank
Decipher Script – 3 (7) ranks
Disable Device – 7 ranks
Knowledge (Arcana) – 5 ranks
Open Lock – 4 ranks
Search – 7 ranks
Spellcraft – 7 ranks
Survival – 1 (2) ranks (required by DM)
Swim – 1 (2) ranks (required by DM)
Use Magic Device – 7 ranks

Freebies from DM
Amulet of the Artificer +5 (+5 to Use Magic Device skill)
Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds

4,000 gp + 300 Craft Reserve for buying Equipment and Crafting Magic Items - Any suggestions?


I will be the healer/skill monkey/provider of magic. The other party members are ranger-1/scout-3 (strongheart halfling), fighter-4 (half orc).

[Alienist]

(Note: I've overlooked your XP reduction feat in the below calculations. My bad. The Scrollcase would cost 84xp instead of 112, and the Healing Belt would cost 30xp instead of 40, leaving you a surplus of 26 crafting points still to spend)

That amulet is totally rockin' my lame world. Looks like your DM gave you the net crafting pool for level 4, but WBL for level 3, plus that sweet sweet amulet of awesomeness.

The good news is that with the Extraordinary Artisan feat, you'll actually have some gold left over. Groovy. You might want to hang onto it, since without outside assistance it's impossible for you to actually make the homunculus at level 4 (if you were planning on that). The bad news is... IT'S A TRAP.

If you're the craft monkey for the group, you should find that they will happily pay you anywhere from 67-75% of the base price for magic items. This should mean that gold isn't even remotely the biggest problem you have.

Once your co-adventurers have a list of +2 or +3 items they'd like, TIME is going to be your biggest constraint. Unless your campaign involves a lot of travelling from point A to point B. (In Eberron you can craft on the lightning rail (remember you can craft anywhere that a mage or cleric could refresh their spells))

NB: to that effect you might want to occasionally mention (whenever nothing else is happening) that your character is sitting in the corner tinkering with stuff. This will help soften up the DM to the idea that you don't in fact need to carry around a 2000 ton creation forge in order to make stuff.

For post-combat healing you can't go wrong with potions of vigor.
For in-combat healing, you should have some potions of Faith Healing, and use them as the carrot to convert the other players to the religion of your choice. (Muahahaha!)

Other than joining a guild (and only if your DM approves on the basis of cool plot points), you should completely ignore any other ways of reducing item costs. Seriously, it's just too easy to have the DM spit the dummy when you start crafting Holy Avengers for 12 copper. Don't go there.

I'm going to assume that after crafting, you have 825gp to spare.

Masterwork Artisans Tools: 55gp
Masterwork Thieves Tools: 100gp
Chainmail: 150gp
Other random adventuring gear (weapon, horse?, food (horse??)) 20-120gp.
This leaves you 400-500gp, which is a comfortable margin.

(Remember if you do join a guild you should account for their annual fees)

Don't forget that at level 3 your Skill Enhancement Infusion grants +3 to a skill, and at level 4 it grants +4
Your role as skill monkey is going to be greatly assisted by having a bunch of level 1 scrolls. Things like:

Appraising Touch
Comprehend Languages
True Casting

For level 2 spells it gets a lot better (and a lot more expensive! 6x)
GUIDANCE OF THE AVATAR
Knock

Knock is an "I win" button for thieves.

After that, I follow a "I'm Batman" approach, e.g. Utility Belt:

Backbiter, benign transposition, ebon eyes, ectoplasmic armour, swift expeditious retreat, inhibit, light of lunia, PROTECTION FROM EVIL, resurgence, true casting, true strike etc.

There are so many level 1 spells that are pretty crappy except in just the right situation, in which case they're just what the party ordered.

So you should spend 20 of your crafting pool on twenty level 1 scrolls (and 187.5 gp), and 40 of your crafting pool on ten level 2 scrolls (and 562.5 gp)

To go with your 30 scrolls, you should check out two things from Magic of Eberron. #1 The infinite scroll case - which is like a quiver of ehlona but for scrolls instead of arrows and javelins, and #2 The level 1 infusion Metamagic Scroll.

Now we've spent all but 28 of our craft pool budget. So you're then looking for a magic item that costs about 700gp or less.

I'd recommend the Amber Amulet of Vermin for extra Offensive punch, but you can't make those until level 5. Hmm.

Healing Belt is definitely on theme for you as Sir Healbot, but it requires 40 xp, so you're 12 short.

If you were going down the Persistent metamagic path, you'd have Extend Spell.

Extend Spell is an absolute boss wrecking-ball when combined with... oh, I don't know Creeping Cold, or Heat/Chill Metal.

Frankly, if I have Heat/Chill Metal, I don't give a kobold's arse whether I have action points or not. With things like Armor Enhancement Lesser, I sneeze in the general direction of Rapid Infusion.

Oh look, they're on your infusion list.

Other nifty metamagic feats you could use this trick for:
Energise Spell (did someone call for a cleric?)
Enervate Spell (did someone call for an eeeeevil cleric?)
Empower Spell (who needs clerics anyway?)
FELL DRAIN!!!
Fiery Spell
Lingering Spell (etc etc)

More on Armor Enhancement Lesser: here's some juicy things you can do (before the combat)

Blur or Displacement (Displacement is much better, but if you can fit three combats in the 30 minute casting time, then perhaps consider Blur)
DEATH WARD (okay, probably not such a biggie at your level, but still, that's respectable)
HEARTENING on a shield is in-combat healing for 10 points from a level 1 spell that doesn't waste anybody's actions. OMG best frickin' in-combat healing for a level 1 spell (okay, technically it's damage prevention, but that's even better than healing so whatever)

PS - while you're basking in the glory of Heartening, check out Healing and its synergy: Healing Greater. Then check out the level 2 Armor Enhancement Infusion. This is a ridiculous amount of pre-emptive healing.

Landing is a great way to negate any damage from a fall. You can't cast it while you're falling, but if you suspect falling (or need to fall and have a minute spare to cast it... NB: add feather fall to lvl 1 scrolls, just in case)

Mind Armor, Mobility, Ranged (did someone call for Captain America?), Arrow Catching, Blinding, Shadow, Silent Moves... yes, you can make cloaks and boots of elvenkind given a minutes notice, and yes, the Skill Enhancement Infusion stacks (competence and circumstance bonuses respectively).

For offense, you can make your own personal weapon a bane weapon (giving it +2 to hit and +2d6+2 damage), or you could just give it flaming.

Sure, that one infusion only lasts for the first 30 minutes of the dungeon, but is that really such a disadvantage?

At level 3, with an Int of 20, you get 5 level 1 Infusions. You could cast one offensive and one defensive on yourself before going into the dungeon, and then after they wear off, cast them again, for a full hours protection, giving you one up your sleeve.

-----

Final Advice: be party and DM friendly. Don't take over the game, don't hog the limelight. Do try to figure out if anyone is feeling frustrated or left out during combat, and preferentially boost them instead of the people already driving the poor DM to drink. Do feel free to sit at the back of the party and plunk away at the bad guys with your crossbow. (Unless you have to charge into combat swinging your two handed sword wildly, in which case, why in the blue blazes are you playing a low level primary caster?)

[valen0121K]

Hey Alienist,

Thanks for taking the time to help me out. I have a question about thhe Infinite Scrollcase, do i need to be 7th level + 2 level adjustment for being an artificer to make the Infinite Scrollcase?

Thanks

Valen

[Alienist]

Hey Alienist,

Thanks for taking the time to help me out. I have a question about thhe Infinite Scrollcase, do i need to be 7th level + 2 level adjustment for being an artificer to make the Infinite Scrollcase?

Thanks

Valen

Short answer: no.
Long answer: hell no. Oh wait, there are two different versions of it. Smeg.

Explanation:
I was looking at the version in Magic of Eberron


Aura/Caster Level: Moderate conjuration. CL 9th.
Construction: Requires Craft Wondrous Item, 1,400 gp, 112 XP, 3 days.
Weight: 3 lb. Price: 2,800 gp.


This version has no spell prerequisites, and hence can be crafted by anyone with the Craft Wondrous Item feat at level 3.

The one on p162 of the Magic Items Compendium is similar, but adds Leomund's Secret Chest as a prerequisite.

Fortunately, that spell does not exist in D&D 3.5 :-)

Okay, okay, the SRD has "Secret Chest", let's assume for a second they meant that. It is a Sor/Wiz 5 Spell. If you were emulating the Sorc version of the spell, a Sorc would have to be at least 10th level (ignoring Shenanigans, none of which work anyway without extraordinarily dodgy misinterpretations of the rules, and also require ignoring those parts of RAW which say 'hey, here's how it works' *cough*). If you were emulating the Wizard version of the spell, a Wizard would have to be at least 9th level to cast that.

You would have to be levels eight or seven respectively.

Why would you choose the Sorc version over the Wiz version? Yeah, I dunno either.

NB: this becomes more important when you start pulling spells off strange and obscure lists, such as Paladin/Ranger and I think there's a prestige class for trap building? (Trapsmith) You have to count the minimum amount of levels you'd have to be before joining that prestige class against the level requirement for emulating and also I believe cost (for pots/sticks). (So they're not as much of a bargain as they appear at first blush)

Given the two choices, I'd say ignore the spell prerequisite for the Magic Item Compendium version, yes it was published later, but hey typo. More importantly, it's not a blatant power grab on your part.

If the DM insists that Secret Chest is a prerequisite, you have two things you can do:
(1) You could hire a 9th level wizard for three days while you make the item. Cost: 1350gp

The cost pretty much renders the exercise a moot point as all of your wealth disappears into the scrollcase, leaving none for the scrolls. Effectively you blow half your crafting pool for nothing. Hurrah!

(2) Opt for something completely different, such as a Type IV Necklace of Fireballs.


Without the scrollcase, a much smaller number of scrolls would be more appropriate, and you might have to justify some kind of system for how you can find the right one in a tight spot. Alternately, and this could also be fun, simply spend large on a random assortment of 'blow **** up' type spells, and then print out a table which you roll on to see which one you pull out. Variety is it's own kind of fun, and there's a bunch of level 2 spells which never really get the credit they deserve:

Flame blade, Flame sphere, Animal Trance, Summon Swarm, Summon Nature's Ally II, Acid Arrow, Summon Monster II, Scorching Ray, Fog cloud, Belker Claws, Slapping Hand, Spiritual Weapon, Snowball Swarm, Kelgore's Grave Mist (etc)

Make a list of 20, and then roll a d20 to see which one you pull out, for a little bit of spicy randomness. If you restrict yourself to one per significant combat then they should last you another 2-3 levels, taking you all the way to level 6.

That's 100xp, and 1125gp.

At level 6 you can make wands. You are using the errata, aren't you? (Trust me, use the errata)

Make a Wand of Summons Unicorns. Give it 10 charges. That'll cost you about 3150gp and 126xp

A single Unicorn is worth 3 cure light wounds and one cure moderate wounds, plus a circle of protection from evil (everyone gets +2 to AC and saves, and it prevents evil creatures from attacking anyone that doesn't attack them first). Oh, and it can attack as well, I guess, if you're into that sort of thing.

So that's 3x 1d8+5 and 1x 2d8+8 = 5d8 + 23 healing (average 45 ish)

Woof.

Also, at level 6, you should have used up all your other combat scrolls. Make some new ones, but switch to exclusively using the rainbow and scintillating spells on your scrolls:

Level 1: Color Spray / Blaze of Light / Light of Lunia / Nimbus of Light
Level 2: Rainbow Beam / Hypnotic Pattern / Sunbolt
Level 3: Rainbow Blast / Scintillating Sphere
Level 4: Rainbow Pattern / Radiant Shield

Additionally you should use Glitterdust, Faerie Fire or Dawn Burst during each combat. Against Undead use Light of Mercuria and Light of Venya.

You might think that some of those spells are a bit limp-wristed, but Rainbow Blast and Scintillating Sphere deal significant chunks of damage, one is a 120 foot line doing 5d6 points of damage, the other is basically the disco version of fireball. Sunbolt is quite capable of giving Scorching Ray a run for it's money (because you're level 6 Scorching Ray's second beam hasn't kicked in yet)

You should also endeavour to be extremely cheerful and excessively happy.

At level 7, you must swear your fellow adventurers to secrecy, and agree to never speak of this level ever again. If pressed brood darkly while mumbling something about it being an experimental phase, or 'what happens in Faerun stays in Faerun'.

Anyone that refuses to swear to this, cut off their healing entirely forever. Anyone who breaks the oath, cut off their healing for one session. Doesn't matter if it's in character, out of character or they just think it in their head. Be merciless.

Level 7 gives you lots of nifty stuff you can do, as this is where the level 5 spells become available. Also, you can start metamagic-ing your wands. Among other things, Scorching Ray jumps up to 8d6 damage at this level. Crunchy. You may actually be able to get more damage than that for less cost, but apparently trying to do better than Scorching Ray is deepest heresy around here so I'm just tossing that out there for your consideration. (Extending Creeping Cold will do 21d6 damage for 2 charges, or 10.5d6 per charge - not something you want to do to mooks, but might be a viable boss killer) (May also depend on whether you think rolling multiple times to hit is better than forcing the opponent to make a fort save for half)

An Extended Greater Creeping Cold is capable of dealing 36d6 to a single target. Just throwing that idea out there ... (It's not cheap by any stretch of the imagination though)

If you had the Extend Metamagic feat and were making a wand of creeping cold with the extended built in, it would be 3x3xwand cost instead of 2x3x2xwand cost. So you're better off baking it in than burning extra charges. Greater Creeping Cold is already a level 4 spell, so you can't bake in the extended feat.

If you want to explore this class feature, you might be better off looking at level 1 spells on a wand, and then slapping some grunty metamagic onto them, since a level 1 spell with a +1 modifier is much cheaper than a level 2 spell.

[DaTedinator]

I'm still not sure why you have 1-2 ranks in all those Craft skills, but everything else seems good.

Alienist's advice for items is great, do what he says.* In particular, note his recommendation of the Personal Weapon Augmentation infusion, which, when hastened, will let you add Bane (whatever I'm facing right now) to your weapon. It's wonderful.
*Key exception: I disagree with his casual dismissal of Rapid Infusion. In a game with action points, it's a free action point per day. In a game without them, it's a whole new way to use your infusions.

That said, I worry you might be following both him and I a little too closely. It's still your character, and you know your group and your campaign better than us. We can give you good advice, but don't let us outright dictate what you do.

Also, Alienist: Leomund's Secret Chest is the real name of Secret Chest, the same way it's actually Leomund's Secure Shelter, Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Melf's Acid Arrow, etc.. The SRD includes most of the stuff in the core rulebooks, but certain stuff has been kept as WotC's alone, like Mind Flayers, and the names of the classic wizards. Thus, those names have been cut from any spells they're a part of.

Thus, Leomund's Secret Chest is absolutely a requirement of the Infinite Scrollcase, putting it out of your crafting reach, valen0121K.

However, the Infinite Scrollcase isn't terribly necessary. Remember that one scroll can hold more than one spell. So just categorize your scrolls by type, and group them. Then you'll only need to draw one scroll for a typical combat. Do ask your DM ahead of time how many spells it's reasonable to fit on one scroll; I tend to let my players get away with five spells per scroll, but no hard limit is given.

Also, as for the problem of finding time to craft: it's a little out of your reach for now, but then, crafting time isn't a big deal right now either. By the time it is, you can build a Dedicated Wright and throw him in an Enveloping Pit (MIC 159; you don't need to use the relic ability to use it as a cheap portable hole). Then you just carry him around in your pocket, and let him work on your magic items all day long. Boom. Now it'll still take time, but it doesn't take any of your time.

[Alienist]

I'm still not sure why you have 1-2 ranks in all those Craft skills, but everything else seems good.


I, on the other hand, like it. With 20 Int for a +5, and the various others ways of pumping that (e.g. Fox's Cunning, Skill Enhancement Infusions) he can (with a single point) hit Masterwork when taking 10.

Sure it's not especially heroic, but it is flavourful. Like sometimes my characters will drop a point into horse riding even if it is a cross class skill. Let the other peons in the party perambulate to the palace, I'm going in style.

Later on (i.e. when you get FABRICATE), it becomes crucial to have these crafting skills. As soon as you run across a mithril or adamantium door and want to make instant sets of masterwork full plate for the whole party, you're gonna need those points.



Alienist's advice for items is great, do what he says.* In particular, note his recommendation of the Personal Weapon Augmentation infusion, which, when hastened, will let you add Bane (whatever I'm facing right now) to your weapon. It's wonderful.


Of course you have to pick in advance what you think you're going to be facing. Depends how good you are at guessing. If you feel bad at guessing, you could shove armor enhancements on the other players (except the Crusader, he probably already has something for temp hit points?) and hang out at the back.

You have to be a bit careful, if you outshine the melee characters in melee, that's kind of rude. Also, if the guy playing the crusader is even moderately competent, he's going to blow everyone else away in melee. So right there is a problem. Watch for a couple of sessions to see what happens, and then if it is true that he's outshining everyone, simply address the balance by boosting the other people a corresponding amount.

Also, let the DM know that's what you're doing, because often an inexperienced DM will throw stuff pitched at the most powerful character*, and as soon as they can beat that one character everyone else gets wiped because the disparity was too great.

*read as: whoever they can't damage or whoever has the highest damage output.**

**Don't write me about how that's not the true measure of power, I know it isn't, but when DMs set up the monsters only to have them mowed down without a scratch, they tend to get twitchy.

NB: if you can arrange it with the other players, have them buy wands of vigour or belts of healing, that will greatly increase the out of combat and in-combat healing options. If three characters do that, you've pretty much out-healed whatever a cleric could have done for you for a net cost to the party of 2250gp. Totally worth it.

Ah! There's also a swordsage in the party. If he's of the unarmed variety, e.g. a stealth monk, have him take a look at the Elixir of Flaming Fists (same page as the Enveloping Pit). Then point out to him that you can make effectively the same thing - an Oil of Weapon Augmentation, Personal; for a mere 50-100gp, and it will last for 10 minutes instead of three. (You can make it last longer if you bump the caster level, which increases the cost which increases the xp cost)

It costs you only 18.75 gold and 2xp to make these bad boys. Note that you have to determine the parameters in advance, so you can't just pick Bane, you'd have to pick a specific Bane when you were making it.

Spending 2xp for a gain of 80 gold ... not bad.

Though I'm still of the opinion that the scout/ranger and the fighter are going to need it the most.



*Key exception: I disagree with his casual dismissal of Rapid Infusion. In a game with action points, it's a free action point per day. In a game without them, it's a whole new way to use your infusions.


It allows you to switch to a more offense style of play than a defense style of play. With 4 melee guys, does he need more offense? Moreover at low levels the Artificer class itself is definitely more defense oriented.

Proof: the augmentation which gives up to +5 bonuses to armour is available as a thrid level Infusion. To get +5 bonuses for weapons takes a sixth level infusion. One of those you can do at fifth level, the other you have to wait until fourteenth level. That's quite a large difference.

As for bane, consider this scenario: you're attacking goblins. You know in advance there will be goblins. This is good, you cast Bane Goblin on your weapon. Then you run into an even mix* of goblins, wargs and bugbears. Now your Bane only works 1/3rd of the time. You'd actually have been better off choosing something like flaming.

*By hit dice, there will be more goblins numerically, but when you add them all up, if the wargs are say level 5, then if there's 1 warg for every 5 gobbos then it comes out even.

A mix of monsters is generally going to be the case for most dungeon bashes, unless they're heavily themed.



Thus, Leomund's Secret Chest is absolutely a requirement of the Infinite Scrollcase, putting it out of your crafting reach, valen0121K.


I'm going to nitpick here. There are two different versions, and the Eberron one doesn't have that requirement.

Personally, I think the DM is a froody dude and will let it slide, especially as it's not a blatant power grab (or even a subtle one either). If you need to explain it to the DM, simply point out that it's Batman's Utility Belt.

Failing that, ye olde sack of random blasting scrolls is a moderately interesting idea, so long as they are rationed appropriately. Again, the idea is not to outshine the melee characters. One per combat lets you do something interesting, particularly if you pick it one round, then have to position for a couple of rounds to get into the right space to let it off with maximum effectiveness.



However, the Infinite Scrollcase isn't terribly necessary. Remember that one scroll can hold more than one spell. So just categorize your scrolls by type, and group them. Then you'll only need to draw one scroll for a typical combat. Do ask your DM ahead of time how many spells it's reasonable to fit on one scroll; I tend to let my players get away with five spells per scroll, but no hard limit is given.


This is a good idea too.



Also, as for the problem of finding time to craft: it's a little out of your reach for now, but then, crafting time isn't a big deal right now either. By the time it is, you can build a Dedicated Wright and throw him in an Enveloping Pit (MIC 159; you don't need to use the relic ability to use it as a cheap portable hole). Then you just carry him around in your pocket, and let him work on your magic items all day long. Boom. Now it'll still take time, but it doesn't take any of your time.

More nitpicks:
(1) I wouldn't want my dead baby taking fifty feet of falling damage every time I returned him to his workshop!
(1a) It's not clear from the description whether you can open it into a wall and make a fifty foot long room, pretty clearly that isn't the intent of the item. It's not even clear if you can open it in anything except a floor type situation, I can see arguments both ways. Even if you could open it in the wall I could see a clear argument for it still having an internal vertical representation rather than becoming horizontal.
(2) You must be Lawful Evil or an adjacent alignment.
(3) You have to be level 7 before you can emulate plane shift anyway
(4) It requires a feat to create. Artificers cannot emulate feats.

The enveloping pit is cheaper than a portable hole. If cost is a factor, then a bag of holding is even cheaper, and just as good for having dead babies doing the crafting.

If cost and weight are both factors, then a handy haversack is even better.

Note that if you're hanging around until level 7 for it, the handy haversack is strictly better than the Infinite Scrollcase.

[Aharon]

Fortunately, that spell does not exist in D&D 3.5 :-)

Given the two choices, I'd say ignore the spell prerequisite for the Magic Item Compendium version, yes it was published later, but hey typo. More importantly, it's not a blatant power grab on your part.


While I applaud your engagement, this is incorrect. The Spell is called Leomund's Secret Chest in D&D 3.5 (see PHB), but Leomund is intellectual property of WoTC and not part of d20 - that's where the difference between SRD and MIC comes from. If we were discussing a fighter, I would agree that using such a difference is no problem, but the Artificer already is a powerhouse and shouldn't need such roundabout arguments.

[valen0121K]

Just heard from the DM. He said no to action points. Unfortunately we had a couple of players drop out. So it will be just an artificer, fighter, and ranger/scout. The good news he's bump up our starting level to 4. My new craft reserve is 300 and starting funds is 4,000 gp. Should I go ahead and take Extend Spell for my 4th level feat?


Thanks,
Valen

[Alienist]

Just heard from the DM. He said no to action points. Unfortunately we had a couple of players drop out. So it will be just an artificer, fighter, and ranger/scout. The good news he's bump up our starting level to 4. My new craft reserve is 300 and starting funds is 4,000 gp. Should I go ahead and take Extend Spell for my 4th level feat?


Thanks,
Valen

Why does he keep giving you such a large crafting reserve?

On the other hand, he's now short-changing you for WBL, should be 5,400gp (but hey - sweet amulet)

If you want to do it on a 'per level' basis:
Level 1 crafting: 20 points of scrolls
Level 2 crafting: 40 points of potions/oils
Level 3 crafting: 120 points headband of intellect*
Level 4 crafting: 120 points vest of resistance +2

The total cost depends on your particular mix of potions and scrolls. But the above should run you in the ballpark of 3500 gold, leaving enough for armour and weapon.

You really want these to be masterwork**, but you can't afford it. But! You have the skills for it. You could plausibly make masterwork weapon and armour for the base materials cost (1/3rd I think?)

If you want to craft mundane items on a semi-regular basis, you should check out the spells Magecraft and Unseen Crafter (which is like Unseen Servant, except it can craft stuff). Sadly Magecraft is Wiz/Sor, but it has a duration of 1 day, so you can make a command word activated item that works only once per day, and the base price is 360gp. Huzzah!

Call it... I dunno... Tools of the Magewright, and slap it on top of masterwork artisan's tools. It'll set you back 135gp and 11xp to make it yourself (not including the cost of the masterwork artisan's tools)

NB: this, of course, stacks with your Skill Enhancement Infusion, giving you a total of +11*** for crafting regular stuff. (Not magical stuff, though Skill Enhancement can help there too). You'll be able to take 10 and hit 28s with a single skill point.

At that rate, it takes you five and a half weeks to make a masterwork weapon. (More if it's a double weapon)

If you can crank out an extra 2 points from somewhere then you can make a masterwork weapon in three and a half weeks. Discouraged? You should be. Normal crafting sucks****.

If you want to squeeze that into the crafting budget, then drop some pots/oils.

*What you really want is a circlet of mages with the +2 int bonus tacked on. (Total base price: 9000gp)
**Among other things this means that at level five you can make a least augment crystals for your weapon (higher augment crystals than that will require actual pluses on the item). Also, at level 5, you can give your weapon actual pluses! Double Huzzah!
***+5 competence bonus, +4 circumstance bonus (Skill Enhancement), +2 circumstance bonus (Masterwork tools) (yes the two circumstance bonuses stack unless they are from essentially the same thing)
****With large amounts of Unseen Crafters, you could generate tens of gp per week. Woohoo! With sixteen going continuously, generating martial weapons (swords), you could make ~408gp progress per week which is 272gp profit. Note that the Unseen Crafters can't make Masterwork weapons for you (your int bonus + ranks = 7, you need 10 for that (they don't get your bonuses from items or spells sadly))

-----

With fewer people in the party, you might need to think about strategies other than standing at the back firing a crossbow. A morningstar is a pretty good weapon. Don't forget a shield.

-----

As for the feat you have five class features that can benefit from metamagic (spells you cast, crafting, metamagic spell trigger, metamagic spell completion and the Metamagic Scroll infusion).

So I think it's relatively important to have at least one 'go to' metamagic feat by level 7. Do you need it right now? The questions I would ask are:

What's your combo? (E.g. Fell Drain and ???)
Does it fit into your long term goals? (You should plan out your feats, if you're not going to go for Persist, why even look at Extend?)
Can you duplicate the effect easily and cheaply some other way? (E.g. a rod of extend will set you back a mere 3000gp, so unless you're going for Persist, why are you spending feats on something you could throw a little bit of gold at?)

[valen0121K]

The total xp for my character is 6100, which puts me at 4th. I'm taking 100 xp from the xp total + the 200 from artificer levels for 300. :smallsmile:

The DM strongly sugggested I craft some potions to distribute to other party members.

What feats do you recommend instead of Extend? I was also looking at Fell Weaken, Energy Substitution, and Energize Spell.

Valen

[Azoth]

I am a fan of energy substitution (acid). It is the least resisted of the choices you get with the feat, plus it pulls double duty as utility if you can't pick a lock. Just grab a handy attack wand/scroll of your choice and change it to acid...then melt the lock/hinge/bars/door/wall...ect.

[thethird]

Uhm... I ended not reading the whole thread and this is probably going to bit my back in my ass.

But why not play an azurin? If you are taking the magic spectacles soulmeld you will get more being an azurin than a human, and deep imaskandi only works to recover arcane spells which your infusions are not.

[valen0121K]

The reason I went with the Deep Imaskari and the DM agreed with me is because the ancient Imaskari were great artificers. I'm not doing the shape souldmeld (mage's spectacles). The DM gave me a ring of the artificer +5 (+5 to use magic device).

Valen

[valen0121K]

Here's a list of the potions and scrolls so far. Spent 1059.38 gp and 85 xp.


Potion of Cure Light Wounds (4)
Scroll - Appraissing Touch (2)
Scroll - Climbing Tree (1)
Scroll - Comprehend Languagers (2)
Scroll - Cure Light Wounds (4)
Scroll - Guidance of the Avatar (2)
Scroll - Healthful Rest (2)
Scroll - Knock (2)
Scroll - Lesser Vigor (4)
Scroll - Magic Missile (4)
Scroll - Melf's Acid Arrow (2)
Scroll - Pass without Trace (2)
Scroll - Protection from Evil (2)
Scroll - Ray of Enfeeblement (2)
Scroll - Resurgence (2)
Scroll - Scorching Ray (2)
Scroll - Shield (2)
Scroll - Silence (2)
Scroll - Summon Swarm (2)
Scroll - True Casting (2)
Scroll - True Strike (2)

[Alienist]

Here's a list of the potions and scrolls so far. Spent 1050 gp and 84 xp.


Looks good. The headband of Intellect is best bang/buck for you at this level because it gives you an extra level 2 infusion, and those rock.

Allow me to put in another vote for Climbing Tree. One scroll would be enough.

Other level 1 spells that are interesting one-offs:

Detect Aberration

Level 1 Infusions you can cast in 1 round or less:
Resistance Item (+2 to saves for 40 minutes)
Inflict light Damage
Light
Magic Stone
Magic Vestment (if they already have magic armour, you can give their shield a +1)
Magic Weapon (+1 enhancement bonus for 4 minutes. When you need this (fighting incorporeal undead) you really really need this.*
Shield of Faith (+2 deflection bonus, +3 at level 6 ... very nice)
Skill Enhancement (my goodness, is there nothing this infusion cannot do???)
Metamagic Scroll

Level 2 Infusions you can cast in 1 round or less:

Align Weapon (I'm terrible at guessing this, it always seems backwards to me)
Bear/Boars/Owls/Eagles/Cats/Bats/Rats/Whatever stat enhancements (you can give your buddies +8 hit points, or +2 to hit and damage) (if you have a UMD roll you want to make, use Eagles to pump your Cha and Skill Enhancement to pump your UMD)
Chill Metal
Heat Metal (both of these are good one shot kills against opponents wearing metal armour at your level (8d4 damage, 22d4 if extended))
Toughen Construct (bonus to natural armour)
Reinforce Construct (temp hp)

Plus the various inflict/repair construct spells, they're all standard actions

Note that Spell Storing Item lets you create a one shot wand. Need anther Knock, but you can wait 1 minute? Cough up 8XP and try to hit a UMD DC of 26. At level 5 there's also Power Surge, which lets you buy/make wands or staves with very low charges and give them a temporary charge, but that is better for 4th level spells or once you hit level 10 and get a second charge.

At level 5 you could charge up a wand of fireballs for 15XP. Now, for you to make that wand in the first place is going to cost you 11.25XP and 140.625gp per charge. So using Power Surge is an interesting way to convert 3.75XP into 140gp

Charges in wands of fourth level spells are going to cost you 21XP, but Power Surge is only going to cost you 20XP. Nice. At level 10 it'll cost you only 10XP per (temporary) charge for a wand with level 4 spells.

I leave it as an exercise to the reader just how amazingly awesome this combo is with a Wand with 1 charge of level 15 Flame Strike. (NB: you'd have to buy it, you couldn't make it, and since Flame Strike is only a level 4 spell for Druids, it'd be kind of rare...)

For extra lols, you could use Metamagic Item (third level infusion) to Maximise the Power Surged wand of level 15 Flame Strike just before use.

Say hello to my little Orbital Ion Cannon. :D

(If you went the Energy Substitution route, then you could Metamagic Item to slap Energy Admixture on instead of Maximise, and roll 30d6 damage, and reminisce about the good old days of Shadowrun versions 1 & 2) ***

Another note: If you stuck Weapon Augmentation, Personal on a Scroll then you could choose "Bane: whatever I'm facing right now", and it would only be a Standard Action (which provokes). If it was a potion instead, then it would also be a standard action which provokes, but it would have to have all of it's parameters determined in advance. So the scroll version is much more flexible than the potion version.

Of course, potions and oils can only be for spells with less than 1 minute casting time, which sucks, but hey, you can always scroll those bad boys up. Don't forget though, that quite a few of the infusions have a material cost which needs to be included in the price of the scroll:

Weapon Augmentation, Personal: 0gp
Weapon Augmentation, Lesser: 20gp
Weapon Augmentation: 100gp
Weapon Augmentation, Greater: 200gp

Energy Alteration 50gp

Armour Enhancement, Lesser: 10gp
Armour Enhancement: 50gp
Armour Enhancement, Greater: 100gp


(NB: if you do make a homunculus for self-defence (e.g. Iron Defender), then the super-awesome Stone Construct costs 250gp. (It is basically Stoneskin for Constructs) ... but wait, there' more! Once you get to 8th level, you can Iron Construct that bad boy, though the material component is a little funky ... ??? (chop some bits off your bro's armour, then cast Make Whole (NB: non-magical armour only) - if you're required to add pluses to your buddies armour at some stage, keep the old non-magical one for this reason (yes, it's incredibly creepy and stalkerish, but hey, material components))

*It does happen. There's a low level Eberron module where we ran into an incorporeal undead with stat munching, only one person in the party had a magic weapon, and so we were left with a mage plunking away with magic missiles and desperately hoping that the dude with the magic sword wouldn't die before killing it. Good times.**

**And by good, I mean the other thing.

***Disclaimer: this is a really bad idea. At level 5 you don't want to do 30d6 damage, even as a boss-killer, because the DM will spit a spleen. Much better to boost the other guys up and let them get the headlines.****

****Unless the DM writes the story into a corner and sorrowfully tells you (just before it happens) that your current encounter is a guaranteed TPK and it really wasn't supposed to go that way. Just turn to him and say "so it's okay if we use dirty tricks?" He will likely agree but tell you it won't help anyway. This works best if you've had the item on your sheet with a nickname like "Dirty Tricks" or "Own Judgement"

Player: "So ... it's okay if we use our Own Judgement?"
DM: "sure"
Player: "okay guys, just last a couple of rounds"
Other Players: "sure mister artificer, that second level armour augmentation is gonna be good for that, but you realise we're screwed, right?"
Player: "It's alright, I have a cunning plan my lords" // rumble rumble rumble

THADDDOOOOOOOOMMMMM

DM and Other Players: "what the frak was that?"
Player: "you said I could use my 'Own Judgement' ... "

-----

At level 10 it's actually:

THADDDOOOOOOOOMMMMM

DM: "well, that hurt, but it wasn't so bad"

THADDDOOOOOOOOMMMMM

DM: "stop doing that!"
Player: "is it dead yet?"
DM: "yes!"
Player: "okay, I'll stop now"

[valen0121K]

I like to thank everyone who helped me out in creating my character. I ended up taking Rapid Infusion feat, which came in handy when our group fought a adult green dragon. After 3 days of gaming (5 adventures), I'm currently level 6. Now that I have craft wand and metamagic item infusion, I need help in picking a good metamagic feat. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Valen

P.S. I'm restricted to the infusions in the Eberron Campaign Settng.

[Alienist]

I think the usefulness of any metamagic feat is going to be proportional to what kinds of wands you're going to make. Also how is your party role shaking out. Are you mainly buffing, mainly blasting and so on?

So the seventh level class feature lets you add metamagic to a wand by expending additional charges.

Let's say you make a Wand of Level 3 Mage Armour (lasts 3 hours). Base cost is 750 x 3 x 1 = 2250

You want to extend it.

If you 'bake in' the Extend, then the cost jumps to 4500. 750 x 3 x 2

If you do it 'on the fly' using your class feature, it costs two charges for one use. So it also costs 4500.

So for a cost of 1 for a level 1 spell it doesn't matter.

Now let''s look at a second level spell. Say Creeping Cold.

Base cost is 750 x 3 x 2 = 4500

With Extend baked in the cost is 750 x 3 x 3 = 6750 (the spell level is 3, but the caster level is only 3*)

*NB: I'm only vaguely sure this is how it works. I don't think the minimum caster level goes up when you use a higher spell slot.

But if you wanted to use the metamagic after construction, the cost would be double, not half again as much, so now you're more cost effective 'baking it in'.

--------

So - the first point of the Metamagic Spell Trigger class feature is that what it really gives you is flexibility to choose between a large number of different metamagic feats, otherwise (in general) it is more cost effective to bake them in at the time of creation.

Unless they cost 0.

(E.g. I think someone made a really good point when they said that Energy Substitution was good - and it works really well with the class feature because the cost is 0 additional charges - in that particular case you're better off not baking it in. Say you have a fireball. You could make the fireball [acid] wand by baking in the energy substitution at time of creation, but now you don't have the option of having it do fire damage on the off chance you run into something immune to acid)

Now let's look at the infusion, what's this, no extra cost in charges??? Straight away we can see that we want to go wild and crazy with this.

Obviously Persistent is going to be the king of this court. With a wand and Persistent you are halfway to breaking the game. Note that Persistent is surprisingly limited on what it can apply to. So double and triple check the fine print.

But there's something else you can do, which I like to call "two for the price of one".

The following metamagics all (kind of) cast the spell more than once:
Chain
Echoing
Energy Admixture
Extend
Maximise
Repeat
Split Ray
Trans-dimensional
Twin


But not all of them apply in all situations. Let's say you're looking at making a wand of cure serious wounds. Obviously Extend or Split Ray is going to do nothing for you here. But neither will Chain, Echoing or Repeat. The only ones that leap off the page at me for touch-range healing are Twin and Maximise.

A level 5 cure serious wounds does 3d8 + 5 of healing. So Maximise will take it to 29. However, Twin will average it to 37, just over a quarter more.

But neither Twin nor Maximise is any good for most buff spells.

E.g. Twinning or Maximising Mage Armour is pointless, but Extending it is relatively easy to get an all day buff.

(Although a thought occurs to me, Twin + Heart of Earth = hideously broken amounts of defence (wow, someone hand me a kleenex))

The same thing applies to say Summon Nature's Ally IV. Let's say you're dropping it down a couple of levels, so that you're summoning multiple creatures. Maximise will get you 5, but Twin will get you at least 4, and as many as 10.

Additionally, if you use Summon Nature's Ally IV to summon a unicorn, I don't think Maximise actually does anything at all, whereas Twin gets you TWO Unicorns. Aaaaaaahhhhh. We have a winner.

Trying to come up with a scenario where Maximise is better than Twin is interesting. (I think I thought of one - Fire Shield? But Maximise is pretty weak sauce there compared with Energy Admixture ... and so it goes)

-----

So if the metamagic costs 50 bajillion, obviously the infusion is better. If it costs 0, then the class feature is better.

What if it costs 1?

Here's a list of some of the metamagic feats which cost 1:

Consecrate
Deafening
Enlarge
Extend
Fell Weaken
Sculpt
Trans-dimensional

Extend and Trans-dimensional are the cheapest spells on our "two fer" list, and they're both highly situational. Extend is mainly good for buffing, but trans-dimensional is only good for fighting ghosts (and other ethereal monsters).

We already worked out that we break even for level 1 spells, and then for higher level spells it is more cost effective to bake it in.

Or is it? (Dunh dunh duhhhhh)

What if I told you that there was a type of wand that gets two charges per day, every day? (Eternal Wand, p159 MIC)

Now those +1 metamagics are free from the class feature, so long as we only want to use them once per day. Hooray!

Except, sadly, no. If you wanted caster level 4 Mage Armor, you can't make it in an Eternal Wand form. Drat.

But it gets worse than that! The Magic Item Compendium writes it up not as a Spell Trigger Item, but as a Command word item! D'oh!

(Originally it was written up as a wand, but the activation method was left unspecified. Double d'oh!!!)

------

But how many levels worth of adventuring do we need a wand to last anyway? If the DM won't let you make wands with less than 50 charges, then you can just burn through the low level cheap ones by putting grunty metamagic on them and blowing lots of charges (if money is no object ... )

------

But note that you can combine the two!

Chained Extended Creeping Cold deals 21d6 to the primary target (fort save for half), and 0+1+1+2+2+3 d6 (total 9d6, reflex save for half, fort save for half to up to your level in additional targets)

A grand total of 75 dice of damage. Woof.

------

TL;DR: The upshot of all that is that you need TWO metamagic feats for slapping onto wands. The first one should have a cost of 0-1 and is for use with your class feature.

The other one should have a cost of 3+ and is for use with your Infusion.

Suggestions for the cheap one:
Extend, Energy Substitution

Suggestions for the expensive one:
Twin, Persistent, Energy Admixture, Chain(?)

NB: Chain is ... interesting. It makes a godly modifier for buffing spells, but only those with range greater than touch. .... right ....


BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!

You can make ... dunh dunh duhhhhh

A WAND OF METAMAGIC ITEM. O.M.G.

Q: How broken is that?
A: Very.

So now what you could do, is cast Metamagic Item (Twin Spell), on your Wand of Metamagic Item. Then you use your Wand of Metamagic Item on your Wand of to give it Twin Spell and (I dunno, Chain Spell).

Now for the next 5 rounds or so, every time you fire off that wand, you're going to be doing ~150d6 of damage.

*twitch*


[I]OR

You could use your powers for good. Just sayin'

[valen0121K]

I been mainly buffing and healing the party. The party loves it when i use the rapid infusion feat to enchant a bunch of arrows with bane. The DM has hinted he will be throwing spellcasters at us.:yuk: Which feat would you recommend out of the one you have suggested, I was thinking either extend or energy substitution (????) or maybe maximize.

Valen

[valen0121K]

The party was wipe out by pack of werewolves do to poor die rolls. The DM is switching to Pathfinder. I will be playing another artificer starting at 1st level? Since their is no skill synergy in PF, any suggestions for boosting use magic device skill? I know the skill enchancement fusion will give me a +3 at 1st level. Should I take any of the following feats: Magical Aptitude, Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles), or Skill Focus?

Thanks,
Valen

[valen0121K]

After wasting almost 2 weeks working on an artificer for a Pathfinder game, the DM surprised us. Our characters in the Forgotten Realms game that were slaughtered by werewolves have been resurrected. We all wake up in the temple to Shaundakul, stripped of all of our gear. We are starting at 8th level and enough xp to be half way to 9th level. The DM said we can change class(es), rearrange attributes, feats and skills. I’m staying with the Deep Imaskari Artificer. I just need help with the feats for the full 20 levels in what order to take the feats.

Here’s the list that I’ve come up with after reviewing several forums. Any suggestions for other feats are appreciated.

Energy Admixture
Energy Substitution (Electricity or Sonic)
Extend Spell
Extraordinary Artisan
Extra Rings
Legendary Artisan
Persistent Spell
Quicken Spell
Rapid Infusion
Twin Spell
Wand Mastery


Thanks,
Valen