Dragonblood Sorcerer - Choosing an SLA

[SilverLeaf167]

A Dragonblood Sorcerer substitution level from Races of the Dragons allows you to get any spell you know (not of your highest spell level though) as an SLA, usable 3/day. As a drawback, the spell is removed from your spells known and you lose one spell per day of that level and one level higher.

The thing is, for a level 12 blaster Sorcerer (the pyromaniac kind, not a high-op campaign), what level 5 or lower spell would actually be a good choice for this ability? As far as I know, you can get the most out of SLAs by choosing spells that have long casting times and/or expensive components.

[thorr-kan]

Disintegrate
Fabricate
Chain Lightninb
Greater Dispel Magic

I'm wondering what 1st level spells would work for a 4th level sorcerer.

[Pyromancer999]

Disintegrate
Fabricate
Chain Lightninb
Greater Dispel Magic

I'm wondering what 1st level spells would work for a 4th level sorcerer.

None of these are 5th level or lower except Fabricate.

[Bakkan]

I'm a fan of Nerveskitter (it's what I use the Draconic Rite of Passage for)

[ericgrau]

This sounds like an ideal candidate for the quicken spell like ability feat. At level 12 that means the spell must be level 2 or lower, unless you want to wait to get the quicken SLA feat later. So I would select perhaps the best level 2 spell there is: web. Because 3 swift action webs per day will be a-freaking-mazing. There's nothing like screwing over multiple turns of multiple foes without even costing you a turn. Even str 50 BBEGs of doom who auto-pass their save will spend at least 1 turn getting out. And 20 feet or more of web provides total cover, so you can block off ranged & casting foes too with proper positioning.

If you want to avoid costly material components then I like stoneskin. But that only works if you enter a lot of dungeons. Then you give up to 3 party members DR 10/adamantine for free every time you feel mildly suspicious of anything.

I still prefer swift action webs though, even given the gp cost of several stoneskins.

[SilverLeaf167]

I'm a fan of Nerveskitter (it's what I use the Draconic Rite of Passage for)

That's a nice idea otherwise, but then I would lose the spell from my spells known and would be limited to three castings per day, while our group typically has way more than three encounters per day. Even then, especially since wands are available, I think this would be sort of a waste for this unique ability.


This sounds like an ideal candidate for the quicken spell like ability feat. At level 12 that means the spell must be level 2 or lower, unless you want to wait to get the quicken SLA feat later. So I would select perhaps the best level 2 spell there is: web. Because 3 swift action webs per day will be a-freaking-mazing. There's nothing like screwing over multiple turns of multiple foes without even costing you a turn. Even str 50 BBEGs of doom who auto-pass their save will spend at least 1 turn getting out. And 20 feet or more of web provides total cover, so you can block off ranged & casting foes too with proper positioning.

If you want to avoid costly material components then I like stoneskin. But that only works if you enter a lot of dungeons. Then you give up to 3 party members DR 10/adamantine for free every time you feel mildly suspicious of anything.

I still prefer swift action webs though, even given the gp cost of several stoneskins.
I think I'll go with Stoneskin, partially for the same reason as above: I'd lose Web from my spells known, and as far as I know it's not that great for wands. Stoneskin, on the other hand, I'd never bother using with the usual gp cost, but without the material component it might be very nice.

So far, from all the ideas, I'm leaning towards Stoneskin.

[Urpriest]

You can't choose spells with expensive material components, as per the ability description.

Long casting times seem fine though.

[SilverLeaf167]

You can't choose spells with expensive material components, as per the ability description.

Long casting times seem fine though.
Whoops, missed that :/
Still, all the other ideas are downplayed by the loss of other access to the spell. Would Dimension Door, or better yet Teleport be any good? You rarely need it too many times per day, and this way you could use it in whatever predicament you find yourself in (without having to waste feats and spell levels on Silent and Still).

[Jack_Simth]

Whoops, missed that :/
Still, all the other ideas are downplayed by the loss of other access to the spell. Would Dimension Door, or better yet Teleport be any good? You rarely need it too many times per day, and this way you could use it in whatever predicament you find yourself in (without having to waste feats and spell levels on Silent and Still).
Note that you don't need Still Spell for Teleport - it's verbal only. Ditto for Dimension Door. It's kind of why they're one of the go-to spells for mid level Wizards who want out of Grapples.

[SilverLeaf167]

Note that you don't need Still Spell for Teleport - it's verbal only. Ditto for Dimension Door. It's kind of why they're one of the go-to spells for mid level Wizards who want out of Grapples.
Oh, right, that's handy. Also, I forgot that Teleport having a 10 minute casting time was just my own houserule, so that probably doesn't apply here either. :smalltongue:

So... I guess we're basically looking for useful spells with long casting times that you'll need a few times per day, but not too many.

[Jack_Simth]

Oh, right, that's handy. Also, I forgot that Teleport having a 10 minute casting time was just my own houserule, so that probably doesn't apply here either. :smalltongue:

So... I guess we're basically looking for useful spells with long casting times that you'll need a few times per day, but not too many.

5th level or lower, eh?

Lesser Planar Binding (swap out for Planar Binding in two levels), Major Creation (Gems fast... even if they don't last long, or maybe an adamantine / silver weapon for the fighter)

[ericgrau]

I'd lose Web from my spells known, and as far as I know it's not that great for wands
You have 4 more spell levels to fill with battlefield control for later fights though. Many of them are better because they are of course higher level. Solid fog is an ok substitute, for example, as are many other battlefield control spells. The key is the quicken spell like ability part, letting you smash action economy. Rather than a solid fog or a web, you can have a solid fog AND a web. Or better yet a different style of battlefield control like a wall and a web. In the very first round of combat you can cripple most of your opposition and focus the rest of the fight on cleaning up the now minor challenge before they can break free.

Web is actually ok in wands because it has a great effect even when foes pass their saves. If you can spare the gp or if you can get a used wand with less than full charges it wouldn't be a bad idea as a backup. But I don't think you'll need to use it often hence why I say make sure it's cheap. Or since it's probably infrequent to never, you might only get 2 scrolls.

Another nice option besides web is ray of enfeeblement. Because you can get it both quickened and empowered if you get 2 SLA feats. Bam, swift action for -13 strength, no save. And now I take my regular turn.

Or if you don't want to spend any feats, I'd get a nice spammable and frequently useful 4th or 5th level spell. Like wall of force or solid fog. Again it'll suck to be without a great spell after it runs out, but you should have other options to keep that from mattering.

[JeminiZero]

So... I guess we're basically looking for useful spells with long casting times that you'll need a few times per day, but not too many.

Actually, Spell-Like abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities) "takes the same amount of time to complete as the spell that it mimics".

[SilverLeaf167]

Actually, Spell-Like abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities) "takes the same amount of time to complete as the spell that it mimics".
Hmm... Where could I have gotten the idea that it's reduced to a standard action...? Is there some popularly abused way to get a standard action SLA or something?

[JeminiZero]

Hmm... Where could I have gotten the idea that it's reduced to a standard action...? Is there some popularly abused way to get a standard action SLA or something?

You *might* be thinking of Quicken Spell Like Ability (Savage Species), which AFAIK quickens the SLA without regard to its original casting time. For a level 12 Sorcerer, you can quicken a level 2 SLA 3/day (provided you spent your 12th level feat on Quicken SLA).

[JaronK]

Major Creation is the obvious winner, I'd say. Use it in combat to summon insane amounts of Black Lotus poison all over the enemy, instant killing a group of them if they're not outright immune.

@Jemini: note that the primary source for spell like abilities (the Monster Manual) says they take a standard action to cast, so that trumps the entry from the SRD (which is actually referencing the PHB). It says "Using a spell like ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise" on page 315. The Rules Compendium also duplicates the Monster Manual wording, not the PHB wording, so this one is pretty clear.

JaronK

[SilverLeaf167]

Major Creation is the obvious winner, I'd say. Use it in combat to summon insane amounts of Black Lotus poison all over the enemy, instant killing a group of them if they're not outright immune.

@Jemini: note that the primary source for spell like abilities (the Monster Manual) says they take a standard action to cast, so that trumps the entry from the SRD (which is actually referencing the PHB). It says "Using a spell like ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise" on page 315. The Rules Compendium also duplicates the Monster Manual wording, not the PHB wording, so this one is pretty clear.

JaronK
That's probably what I was thinking about, thanks! Happy to have interpreted something right for once...
Unless there are some really useful HD 6 outsiders I'm forgetting about, Lesser Planar Binding doesn't seem too great for level 12, and I'm not sure how good Major Creation is, as the party (not high-op, as I mentioned) will probably cringe on that Black Lotus trick as well as most of the usual money-making tricks.

Assuming I don't want to spend feats, Quickened SLAs are off the table... This is turning out to be a way more difficult question than I had anticipated, but that could just be because I'm so picky and stingy :smallredface:

[JeminiZero]

How aout Summon Monster 5? Shortened casting time to Standard action to get an extra wall of meat is always nice in combat. Some come with special abilities.

A similiar alternative is Summon Undead 5. You can get Shadows and Allips which are really nasty against creatures without anti-incorporeal attacks (including the Tarrasque). And you can also auto-summon multiple lower level creatures, unlike Summon Monster. So SU5 can also get you 2 Wyvern Zombie meat walls.

[Vaz]

5th Level or Lower Sorcerer spells?

Got to be Arcane Fusion.

Gets 3 1st Level Sorc Spells, and 3 4th Level or lower Sorc spells provided they are no longer casting than a standard action, and they don't take a spell slot.

You get to choose each time which spells those are, giving you the flexibility.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

5th Level or Lower Sorcerer spells?

Got to be Arcane Fusion.

Gets 3 1st Level Sorc Spells, and 3 4th Level or lower Sorc spells provided they are no longer casting than a standard action, and they don't take a spell slot.

You get to choose each time which spells those are, giving you the flexibility.

This, and get Quicken Spell-Like Ability at 18th for it.

[SilverLeaf167]

Once again, what's really the benefit of getting Arcane Fusion as an SLA instead of an normal spell, other than getting Quicken SLA at a very late level?

We have to keep in mind that it also has to be worth losing two spells per day and a spell known, though I guess three uses for two slots is almost always fine.

[Vaz]

You can get 3 of the same SLA's a day, or 6 which you can pick and choose at the time of casting.

[thorr-kan]

None of these are 5th level or lower except Fabricate.

Shoot! I mixed up my spell levels flipping back and forth between pages.

OK...how about:
Teleport (already mentioned)
Feeblemind
False Vision (you're at the level where the enemy's gonna be scrying on you.)
Extended Nondetection?

[Urpriest]

Trait Removal could be interesting. It's much more potent as a standard, though I'm not sure you'll use it that much.