Help me price these magic items!

[cojiro7]

I am the steady DM in my group of friends, and after a bunch of sessions, one of the party members who had DM'd before offered to DM a side quest.

I knew his DMing was a bit more loose on the rules than mine, but I appreciated the break from the work and the opportunity to play a character for a couple sessions... until the last session when he "awarded" the party with some magic items that made me cringe. I am not terrific with the custom item pricing, but I'm giving it a shot, and I'd appreciate what everyone else thinks. I want to be able to explain to him why I have to modify all of the goodies that the party was so excited about to things much less exciting.

The party is at ECL 6, and there are 5 of them (his character took a short vacation while mine was in the party). Here are the 4 items found at various locations in the mansion they looted. (Note, he explained that the "exposed to the light of the moon/sun thing is how they are charged, but they can be used any time in the day as long as they had been exposed in the past 24 hours to those things)

The SunShadow Ring: When exposed to the light of a rising and setting sun, this ring allows the wearer and whatever they are touching at that moment to turn invisible, except for their shadow.
-Lasts 10 minutes per charge (2 per day if exposed to dawn/dusk)
-Shadow can be seen.
-Items picked up while invisible will remain visible
-Engaging in combat removes invisibilty BUT wearer can become invisible during combat (must endure attack of oppurtunity.)
-Spot of 18 plus character's natural sneak skill +/- pungent smells, squeaky floors, etc.

This seems more or less a ring of invisibility, usable twice a day, made at caster level 10 (for 10 minutes at one minute/level per invisibility spell). So,
(Spell level (2) * caster level (10) * command word (1,800)) / (5/2 uses per day) = 14,400gp. Pretty straightforward?


The Sunburst Staff: Caster creates a burst of sunlight that blinds any who gaze upon it.
-Cone of up to 40 meters instantly blinds target(s) for 2 rounds no saving roll
-Causes undead to take 2d4 damage plus casters Wis modifier
-30 charges

The no save blindness and the huge area of affect make me think this is a little crazy. It's based loosely on the sunburst spell but doesn't have near the same damage output. I'm not sure how long the blindness effect lasts in the sunburst spell (the Cleric/Druid/Wiz/Sorc spell), but it's hard to compare between that 8th level spell and Power Word Blind, which no-save blinds just one target as a level 7 spell, but for a longer duration. So, I'm thinking I should set this as a level 7 spell. the Undead damage is almost negligible.
So, priced as a spell-trigger item,
Spell level (7) * Caster level (13) * 750 * (30 charges/50) = 40,950gp.


The Moonbeam Longbow: When exposed to the light of a rising and setting moon, this bow shoots with the precision of a beam of light.
-Is a +3 longbow normally
-Twice a day, player can attack and automatically score a critical hit
-Must declare intention to use bow's ability.
-Bow causes user 1d4 of damage

I don't know how to price this. A +3 longbow is 18,000 gp, but what sort of weapon enhancement would give an automatic critical hit? (I assume the weapon has to hit normally to apply the critical damage). That sounds like at least a +4 weapon enhancement, even at only twice a day and with a puny repercussion to the archer. Who, by the way, has a very accurate shot already and hardly needs the +3 to-hit. What do you think? a +3 enhanced longbow with a +4 special enhancement for +7, 98,000gp?


The MoonStone Shield: When exposed to the light of a rising and setting Moon, this shield offers an additional AC of 15 once a day that lasts 1d4 rounds
-Wielder must declare usage on their turn
-A/C of 4 when not in "use"
-Weighs 13 pounds

I don't know where to start with this. It seems like a +2 heavy steel shield with a bonus that is way too massive, I don't even know how to price it.



Any corrections on how to price these items better would be very helpful, but I'd also appreciate any advice on how to make them more level-appropriate. I know he'll be disappointed (but, too bad lol) about nerfing these items, and I also know it wasn't a ploy for power but well-intentioned creativity. So I want to keep the items nice, but not so overpowered-ly nice.

[Aethir]

Alright, I'll throw out some thoughts here for it, seems like a fun time.



The SunShadow Ring: When exposed to the light of a rising and setting sun, this ring allows the wearer and whatever they are touching at that moment to turn invisible, except for their shadow.
-Lasts 10 minutes per charge (2 per day if exposed to dawn/dusk)
-Shadow can be seen.
-Items picked up while invisible will remain visible
-Engaging in combat removes invisibilty BUT wearer can become invisible during combat (must endure attack of oppurtunity.)
-Spot of 18 plus character's natural sneak skill +/- pungent smells, squeaky floors, etc.

This seems more or less a ring of invisibility, usable twice a day, made at caster level 10 (for 10 minutes at one minute/level per invisibility spell). So,
(Spell level (2) * caster level (10) * command word (1,800)) / (5/2 uses per day) = 14,400gp. Pretty straightforward?


It seems a lot like a Ring of Invisibility, but don't ignore the adhoc penalties it applies in addition to the fact that it's not true invisibility, it's nowhere near half as good as the real deal. No, it's not worth anywhere near 14,400gp, because as should be obvious the value of items are set by what they're comparable to and what they're worth in more hand-derived values than a stiff formula will tell you.

Let's compare: Ring of Invisibility - At will Invisibility for 3 minutes at a time, subject to the usual limitations. 20k gp
This: 2/day Pseudo-invisibility, subject to three very specific limitations (Combat difficulty of use, requires exposure to light from the surface twice a day every day to gain power, leaves a perfectly visible shadow giving away the location of the user). ??k gp

Let's see what is at the other end of the spectrum for pricing then, because 14.4k is way more than 2/day invis subject to these limits is worth. Let's compare to if the same item was made using the Camouflage spell from the Spell Compendium. In that situation it'd be 1*1*1800 (/2.5 for uses) for a very low lower bound limit of 720gp. Quite the difference of results.

So we know 720-14.4k is a wide range, narrow it. Go from 2000-8000. Is it generally as useful as say, a Ring of Sustenance? I'd really disagree if it were called so. I'd say it's probably on the 4k or less range, because it has serious usability issues, requires being incredibly mindful of the time, leaves picked up items visible, and has a shadow showing, which in any kind of proper lighting means it's worth just the 50% miss chance of invisibility and nothing else.

I'd probably price it at about 2500 (same as one of the better low level magic items that's conveniently a ring), and significantly more on par.

Should be fine at this level, it's a cute trick at best unless used in a very intelligent fashion (requiring cunning and planning, which is probably worth the risk), with the only magic item it being similar to and better than being the Major Cloak of Displacement which is insanely overpriced.



The Sunburst Staff: Caster creates a burst of sunlight that blinds any who gaze upon it.
-Cone of up to 40 meters instantly blinds target(s) for 2 rounds no saving roll
-Causes undead to take 2d4 damage plus casters Wis modifier
-30 charges

The no save blindness and the huge area of affect make me think this is a little crazy. It's based loosely on the sunburst spell but doesn't have near the same damage output. I'm not sure how long the blindness effect lasts in the sunburst spell (the Cleric/Druid/Wiz/Sorc spell), but it's hard to compare between that 8th level spell and Power Word Blind, which no-save blinds just one target as a level 7 spell, but for a longer duration. So, I'm thinking I should set this as a level 7 spell. the Undead damage is almost negligible.
So, priced as a spell-trigger item,
Spell level (7) * Caster level (13) * 750 * (30 charges/50) = 40,950gp.


This one is the one I'm really wary of for power, I will agree it's worrisome to a degree. Pricing it as Power Word Blind is probably around its real value,
as it's quite potent if used sparingly against bosses and the like. It's an uncompromising item, which is worth more than most, and lacks any real weakness that I can see.

Definitely needs nerfing at this level of play.



The Moonbeam Longbow: When exposed to the light of a rising and setting moon, this bow shoots with the precision of a beam of light.
-Is a +3 longbow normally
-Twice a day, player can attack and automatically score a critical hit
-Must declare intention to use bow's ability.
-Bow causes user 1d4 of damage

I don't know how to price this. A +3 longbow is 18,000 gp, but what sort of weapon enhancement would give an automatic critical hit? (I assume the weapon has to hit normally to apply the critical damage). That sounds like at least a +4 weapon enhancement, even at only twice a day and with a puny repercussion to the archer. Who, by the way, has a very accurate shot already and hardly needs the +3 to-hit. What do you think? a +3 enhanced longbow with a +4 special enhancement for +7, 98,000gp?


+3 Longbow, 18k. That much is a given. The 2/day auto-crit, that's more interesting to price, but for it I would look toward Complete Champion for the spell Surge of Fortune for an idea. Pricing it as a 5th level spell used twice per day, going a bit beyond the capability of it, but limiting the applicability of it, wouldn't be too hard to price. An adhoc pricing of 32400 (2/day use of 5th level spell, with some odd prereq to offset activation and limited scope to offset exceeding what it can do) doesn't seem beyond the scope of it to me. (Total 50,775 or a bit higher if it's composite)

Probably needs nerfing at this level of play.



The MoonStone Shield: When exposed to the light of a rising and setting Moon, this shield offers an additional AC of 15 once a day that lasts 1d4 rounds
-Wielder must declare usage on their turn
-A/C of 4 when not in "use"
-Weighs 13 pounds

I don't know where to start with this. It seems like a +2 heavy steel shield with a bonus that is way too massive, I don't even know how to price it.


I wouldn't overestimate the value of a 1/day ability to boost AC by a lot for a very short variable amount of time, especially one that requires you declare the usage on your turn. If it were showing up in a game I was running, I would price it in the range of a +2 ability at best, it's absurdly limited.

Probably fine, it's sharply limited on its own.

[rot42]

SunShadow Ring: make it a Vanisher Cloak (MIC 145); 2500 is a major purchase at this level, but well within the range of reasonably available. Alternatively, require a complex activation (say, one minute of manipulation); this lets the bearer still sneak around a bit while not fighting and still get in one good thwack as part of an ambush, but removes most of the danger to the game of having too much invisibility before see invisibility monsters are readily available.

Sunburst Staff: changing the effect to Dazzled would be a bit weak for this level. Luminous Gaze (SpC 135, Wiz 1) gives a 20' radius no-save dazzle for sake of comparison. Changing the area to a 30' (or 120'?) cone helps it interact seamlessly with the rest of the setting. Or, better, make it a ray and drop the duration to one round. Rebuke is a second level spell (SpC 170) that gives a daze status without a hit dice cap; to within an order of magnitude, this is about as good as blinding and can serve as a guide for pricing. edit: There is also a Blindness/Deafness spell at level two in an obscure little supplement I like to call the Player's Handbook. Trading a save for a touch attack is generally going to be favorable (hence Spellwarp Sniper), but it should get you into the right ballpark./edit

Moonbeam Longbow: for 8,000 a Flesh Ring of Scorn (MIC 100) automatically confirms a crit threat 3/day while dealing significantly more damage to the wielder than the bow. With a bit of handwaving while chanting "level appropriate" in a dark and forgotten tongue, I would say strip the +3, up the damage to 2d4, and nerf the auto-hit-and-crit to +4 to confirm.

MoonStone Shield: Ring of Avoidance (MIC 122) is a decent comparison. It gives +20 3/day, but it takes your Standard action to activate. How is this shield activated? The items for storing low level maneuvers are only 3000; Wall of Blades (Warblade 2, ToM 70; lets you knock away an attack) on the shield might preserve enough of the flavor.

[Andezzar]

@SunShadow Ring, Moonbeam Longbow, MoonStone Shield: you may want to clarify how the Exposure to light condition works. You cannot expose an item to the light of the rising and setting sun/moon at the same time (at least not in our world, no idea how your campaign world works). So you need to give a time frame in which both exposures can occur and how long that "activation" will last:
- must both occur within a limited timeframe (24 hours for example)? Do you need to do it in a certain order?
- Do you need to do that activation before every use? once per day? Once per user/wearer?

The answers to those questions will vastly change the items' values.

[cojiro7]

Thanks Aethir for reassuring me on those two items, the ring and the shield; I'll probably leave them as-is as you suggest... at least the ring. We're in a pretty forest-based adventure, so the shadow thing on the ring of invisibility seemed a bit more negligible than it really is; and since it's so outdoorsy, the exposure to the light of the moon/sun also seemed like a given, but they won't be outside forever. All that said though, 2,500 seems fair after your reasoning.

Still, pricing the shield as a +2 enhanced shield with a +1 or +2 special ability is still going to be 16k or 25kEdit: no, 9 or 16k., which is still very significant with WBL at 13,000. Or, going by rot42's suggestion of pricing like a ring of avoidance (but not quite as good, smaller AC bonus and only once per day) so maybe a +2 shield with an additional 3k ability (the ring of avoidance was 10k) for a total of 7k?

Rot42, thanks for those pointers for how to nerf the others. The thing about the Sunburst Staff is that it didn't affect just one creature but a huge cone full of creatures with no save, so it was more akin to a mass power word blind with significantly shorter duration than the spells you mentioned... Comparing it to blindness/deafness as you suggest, how many spell levels up would you consider going from one target and allowing a save to a cone affect (60'?) without a save? I'm deliberating between giving the affected creatures a save, or making it a no-save Daze for one round.

As for the bow, I agree with dropping it down from +3 to +1. I think the 2d4 for only a +4 to confirm is a little too harsh; what about making it Keen, and twice a day he can take the 2d6 to auto-confirm the critical? That would be something along the lines of a +1 longbow with a +1 ability, with the added benefit of an 8,000 gp ring?

@Andezzar: The intention was that basically they could be used every day, so long as in the past 24 hours they had been exposed to the rising and setting of the sun/moon, obviously not at the same time. Conversely, if they missed an exposure it wouldn't work until they were exposed to whatever they had missed.

[molten_dragon]

The SunShadow Ring: When exposed to the light of a rising and setting sun, this ring allows the wearer and whatever they are touching at that moment to turn invisible, except for their shadow.
-Lasts 10 minutes per charge (2 per day if exposed to dawn/dusk)
-Shadow can be seen.
-Items picked up while invisible will remain visible
-Engaging in combat removes invisibilty BUT wearer can become invisible during combat (must endure attack of oppurtunity.)
-Spot of 18 plus character's natural sneak skill +/- pungent smells, squeaky floors, etc.

This seems more or less a ring of invisibility, usable twice a day, made at caster level 10 (for 10 minutes at one minute/level per invisibility spell). So,
(Spell level (2) * caster level (10) * command word (1,800)) / (5/2 uses per day) = 14,400gp. Pretty straightforward?

I'd probably reduce the price a little further than that due to the restrictions (shadow can be seen, using it in combat provokes an AoO, easier to spot than normal invisibility). Based on those I wouldn't go any higher than 10,000, maybe even lower.

This one I'm not really sure needs changed. It's not all that overpowered even at the level you guys are at. If you really wanted to though, you could just change it to a ring that gives a bonus on hide checks.


The Sunburst Staff: Caster creates a burst of sunlight that blinds any who gaze upon it.
-Cone of up to 40 meters instantly blinds target(s) for 2 rounds no saving roll
-Causes undead to take 2d4 damage plus casters Wis modifier
-30 charges

The no save blindness and the huge area of affect make me think this is a little crazy. It's based loosely on the sunburst spell but doesn't have near the same damage output. I'm not sure how long the blindness effect lasts in the sunburst spell (the Cleric/Druid/Wiz/Sorc spell), but it's hard to compare between that 8th level spell and Power Word Blind, which no-save blinds just one target as a level 7 spell, but for a longer duration. So, I'm thinking I should set this as a level 7 spell. the Undead damage is almost negligible.
So, priced as a spell-trigger item,
Spell level (7) * Caster level (13) * 750 * (30 charges/50) = 40,950gp.

This one's difficult. I can't really think of a spell effect that produces a no-save cone of blindness to match it on.

Blinding spittle is a 2nd level spell that blinds the target with no save (though it requires a touch attack roll). Chain spell would let it target multiple creatures. That would put it up to a 5th level spell. So if we did a staff of chained blinding spittle it would be spell level (5) * caster level (9) * 750 * (30/50) = 20,250. If we apply an ad-hoc doubling on the price for not requiring an attack roll, it would come out pretty close to the price you came up with.

As far as altering it to make it more low-level friendly, you could make it a runestaff with spells like blindness/deafness (only the blindness part), searing light, sunbeam, sunburst, etc. Since the PC using it would need to have spell slots of the level to use the spells in it, it would naturally limit him to the lower level ones at the beginning.


The Moonbeam Longbow: When exposed to the light of a rising and setting moon, this bow shoots with the precision of a beam of light.
-Is a +3 longbow normally
-Twice a day, player can attack and automatically score a critical hit
-Must declare intention to use bow's ability.
-Bow causes user 1d4 of damage

I don't know how to price this. A +3 longbow is 18,000 gp, but what sort of weapon enhancement would give an automatic critical hit? (I assume the weapon has to hit normally to apply the critical damage). That sounds like at least a +4 weapon enhancement, even at only twice a day and with a puny repercussion to the archer. Who, by the way, has a very accurate shot already and hardly needs the +3 to-hit. What do you think? a +3 enhanced longbow with a +4 special enhancement for +7, 98,000gp?

The auto-crit twice a day is worth far less than a +4 special ability. It's basically a +3 longbow that allows the player to the hunter's mercy spell (1st level ranger spell) via command word (assuming declaring intention to use is same as a command word) twice a day. Which would be spell level (1) * caster level (1) * 1800 * (2/5) * 2 (for being a slotless item) +18,000 for the +3 longbow = 19,440 gp.

If you wanted to make something similar that wasn't a +3 weapon, you could just make a slotless item or a weapon crystal that gave the 2/day auto-crit ability.


The MoonStone Shield: When exposed to the light of a rising and setting Moon, this shield offers an additional AC of 15 once a day that lasts 1d4 rounds
-Wielder must declare usage on their turn
-A/C of 4 when not in "use"
-Weighs 13 pounds

I don't know where to start with this. It seems like a +2 heavy steel shield with a bonus that is way too massive, I don't even know how to price it.

Okay, so we have a +2 heavy steel shield that can grant an additional +11 Shield bonus to AC 1/day. I don't know of any way to get a shield bonus that high, but you could get close to that with some spells. Casting both barkskin and shield of faith at CL 18 would get you a +10 (so a total of +14 with the shield bonus). Or polymorph could easily turn you into something that had a +11 NA bonus (a cave troll at CL9 would do it). Either of these options would have a much longer duration too.

So via the first method we would have [spell level (2) * caster level (18) * 1800 * (1/5) * 2 (for being a slotless item) + spell level (2) * caster level (18) * 1800 * (1/5) * 2 (for being a slotless item) *.75 (for multiple similar abilities)] = 45360. However that would have a duration of 3 hours, and would require two standard actions to activate.

A 1/day item of polymorph at CL 9 would be spell level (4) * caster level (9) * 1800 * (1/5) * 2 (for being a slotless item) = 25920. However that would last 9 minutes, allow you to take any form you wanted, and give you a number of benefits beyond just AC.

Based on those two costs though, and the short (variable) duration of the ability, I'd price the bonus AC part of the ability at no more than 10,000 gp. Probably less than that.

If you wanted to make it more low-level friendly, just reduce the extra AC bonus, or maybe make it so that a couple times per day as an immediate action he can boost the AC vs. one attack or something like that.