Theurge help

[Santra]

Building a Mystic Theurge for my buddy to play. Currently I have a Wizard (possibly illusionist) 4/ Gnome Paragon 1 (needed a 1 level dip with bluff as a class skill and a good fort save for Ur Priest)/ Ur Priest 2/ Mystic Theurge 8/ Any full casting PrC 5

Just here to ask if there is a better option for lvl 5 than Gnome Paragon and suggestions for a prc for 16+

[Flickerdart]

Losing casting levels is a bad plan. You can just piledrive Wizard til level 9 and get the requirements.

[Santra]

Losing casting levels is a bad plan. You can just piledrive Wizard til level 9 and get the requirements.

It should retain 9/9 casting as long as it loses 3 or less caster levels. This Also gets 9th level cleric casting at lvl 15 without relying on any early entry cheese.

[Flickerdart]

Well yeah, but you get fewer spells per day and lag behind even more than normal for most of your career. Those 2 levels of Ur-Priest really hurt, and if you lose a third level, then even Sorcerers are a spell level ahead of you.

[Petrocorus]

Marshall from Miniature Handbook. And i think it has been erratad to give it Full BAB, not sure. Not much synergy, though.

Thug variant of Fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug)

The Savage Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard)

The Generic Classes from UA. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm) Let you chose your skills and saves.

Apprentice: Criminal from DMG II gives you Bluff as class skill.

[Santra]

Well yeah, but you get fewer spells per day and lag behind even more than normal for most of your career. Those 2 levels of Ur-Priest really hurt, and if you lose a third level, then even Sorcerers are a spell level ahead of you.

Hmm Good point I was thinking the cleric casting would make up for that however.

[Petrocorus]

Do you really need the ability to rebuke undead? For DMM?

[Flickerdart]

Let's look at it level by level.

For the first four levels, it's just a wizard. So far, so good. Then suddenly at 5th level, when wizards really come into their prime, you get...+1 CL for illusions. Now you're progressing like a sorcerer. Still, no big deal, right?

Then, for the next two levels, your spellcasting stalls. At level 7 you're rocking the same 2nd level spells you were at 4th, plus a tiny pittance of Cleric spells per day, also 2nd level. You're facing Flesh Golems and Huge elementals and your best spells are Glitterdust and Web.

Then you finally get Mystic Theurge levels. At level 8, you finally score 3rd level spells. At level 9, when you're still on 3rd level spells, everyone else is binding outsiders and teleporting all over the place. Two levels later, you've made your way up to Dimension Door, and other casters already have Contingency. Two levels later, you finally have Teleport, but everyone's moved on to Finger of Death and Limited Wish. When people start slinging around 9th level spells, you've only got 7th level ones to protect yourself.

Having more spells doesn't matter if your spells are crap.

[Petrocorus]

The best way to qualify early for Ur-Priest, will be, i think to take flaws to be able to take feat to solve the Bluff and Fort problem.


You can also try to use the Sha'Ir (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:geydZ2aMjIcJ:brilliantgameologists. com/boards/index.php%3Faction%3Dprintpage%3Btopic%3D10153.0&hl=en&tbo=d&gl=br&strip=0), which has Bluff as class skill, and can qualify early for geomancer to get the Fort save;

[Flickerdart]

The best way to qualify early for Ur-Priest, will be, i think to take flaws to be able to take feat to solve the Bluff and Fort problem.
Feats won't help; Ur-Priest wants a base save bonus.

[Petrocorus]

Feats won't help; Ur-Priest wants a base save bonus.

Oops! Right.

[Valdis]

So what would be the best way to do this?
1. Take the first 9 levels in Wizard/Illusionist or some other UA variant
2. Then take 2 levels in Ur-Priest, to gain access to 2nd level Cleric spells
3. Then move on to the Mystic Theurge PrC?

What happens once you get past level 20? Just take your epic levels in either Wizard or Cleric?

[nedz]

Well there's no point going MT beyond
Wiz 9 / Ur Priest 2 / MT 8
So you could follow this with Wiz 10, or some other PrC.