need your help in picking up a class. (lvl9)

[bbkilla]

Right now I'm playing a skill monkey with a very nice dmg output and the case is that I'm too strong for my party. they feel that I'm "stealing" their spotlight. So i decided to create a new character to make everyone happy.

I don't want to give up on my part as a skill monkey, because its very fun, and I don't want to play an unoptimized character because...
well, its because that I just love to optimize my characters :D:D.
so i thought that if i will play a skill monkey that will also focus on buffing the party and with absolutely no dmg output we will both be happy.
i don't think that they will say "oh no you are making us so much stronger, please stop" :)

so my first thought was that Bard is perfect for the job. but u guys know better then me.
so what do you say, can he fill up to this roll? any class doing it better?

(forgot to say, wizard is taken)

tnx!

[Greenish]

Sounds like a bard alright, though you'll have to be careful not to go overboard, lest your DM decides to flip the table. Optimized force-multipliers can make wet toiled paper into unstoppable engine of steamrolling.

[Namfuak]

Bards do pretty well in that role. You can take the Bardic Knack ACF and combine it with Jack of all Trades to be effective at every skill, and use your skill points to specialize in a few.

[JaronK]

If by "Skill Monkey" you also meant "trap finder" consider Beguiler/PrC Bard. Plenty of buffing, but you can also handle traps. And if you get tired of screwing around, switch in to Shadowcraft Mage and dominate all that dares stand against you.

JaronK

[Flickerdart]

Check out the War Weaver in Heroes of Battle. It turns your single-target buffs into multi-target buffs, and lets you shoot them off as a move action.

[bbkilla]

tnx all!
i don't think that the War Weaver is for me, so i think that ill start to make my bard... (and the Beguiler/PrC Bard sound really good too).

so where can i start looking? (i mean, after i'll google "bard handbook 3.5)

[Flickerdart]

Unfortunately, you don't qualify for Prestige Bard until level 7 (since you need BAB +3) which means you can never get the final Inspire Courage. Since 14th level of Prestige Bard is a dead level, consider going for a 1 level dip into Mindbender before entering Prestige Bard. This lets you get telepathy, which you can use to qualify for Mindsight as your 6th level feat. Telepathic radar is pretty damn cool.

[bbkilla]

Yea, i thought about it and 6 levels as Beguiler isn't what I want. so ill pick only bard.

now i have 3 problems:
spot, search, and trapfinding.

what do you think?

[galan]

hmm. rogue dip at first level gives you trapfinding, and so many skill points (you should have huge INT bonus anyway) you can take ranks in spot and listen. i also know there is something called "knaks" that should work very well with the feat "jack of all trades" (mentioned in this theard too), but i don't remember how it works

[only1doug]

Yea, i thought about it and 6 levels as Beguiler isn't what I want. so ill pick only bard.

now i have 3 problems:
spot, search, and trapfinding.

what do you think?


hmm. rogue dip at first level gives you trapfinding, and so many skill points (you should have huge INT bonus anyway) you can take ranks in spot and listen. i also know there is something called "knaks" that should work very well with the feat "jack of all trades" (mentioned in this theard too), but i don't remember how it works

A Spellthief (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a) dip nets a few less skillpoints than rogue but will allow master spellthief feat at L6 (which will let your spellthief and bard levels stack for spells stealable).

Edit: at L9 you will be able to steal 4th level spells from your enemies.

[Keld Denar]

If you put at least 8 ranks in Knowledge Planes by 5th level, you can take Planar Touchstone as your 6th level feat. Also costs you 250g for the Touchstone itself. Then, just dial your Touchstone in to the Catalogues of Enlightenment for any domain granted power. The Kobold domain gives you the Trapfinding ability like a rogue, and also makes Disable Device a class skill, along with I think Search. Now spend some if your skill points over that and the next 3 levels backfilling Disable Device, and you should start play as a level 9 Bard with all the trap savvy of a rogue for only a minor expense.

If you go all out with the Kobold thing, you could even make your character one (not required). Kobolds are naturally Dragonblooded, opening up Dragonfire Inspiration as a feat, which is very powerful.

[Psyren]

What's wrong with pure Beguiler for this? Instead of buffing your friends you can debuff the enemy, and you get all kinds of fun spells to choose from freely. Since you'll need the party to kill things for you, they won't feel underpowered or left out.

[Shining Wrath]

Buffing skillmonkeys? Bard, Artificer.

[Flickerdart]

Yea, i thought about it and 6 levels as Beguiler isn't what I want. so ill pick only bard.

now i have 3 problems:
spot, search, and trapfinding.

what do you think?
Cloistered Cleric? Kobold domain gives you trapfinding, Disable Device, and Search. Sky Domain gives you Spot. Cloistered Clerics get 6 skill points, the Bard's lore ability, and all those delicious Cleric buffs you know and love. What kind of skill monkey doesn't want Guidance of the Avatar for a big fat +20 bonus?

[bbkilla]

i fear that pure Beguiler will take the attention once again with his debuffs, i don't want to risk it.

1 level dip spell thief\rouge\Cloistered Cleric means that i need to be a human and take able learner if i want those skills maxed so i think that its not very good.

i can consider spell thief so i can help our wizard and druid cast faster (i don't want to steal spells from enemies) but the problem is that it takes 2 turns, 1 to steal and 1 to cast.
i thought to steal them before the battle starts so I'll be able to just cast them, but
At any one time, a spellthief can possess a maximum number of stolen spell levels equal to his class level
and master spellthief feat doesn't help to improve my class level. is there a way to bypass this?

so the best thing right now is the "Planar Touchstone", and the Kobold idea sounds really good.
where can i read about Planar Touchstone? (i mean book and page).

what about spot?

tnx guys, I'm really grateful for all of your help!

[Psyren]

where can i read about Planar Touchstone? (i mean book and page).


Planar Handbook pg. 41

[bbkilla]

so this is my bard right now:
level 9 bard human, 2 flaws, Bardic Knack variant.
I'm not a kobold because my DM wont let me abuse the +3 trick, and i don't see what else i can benefit from being a kobold.

1st level - Dragontouched, Draconic Heritage, Dragonfire Inspiration, Jack of all trades.
3rd level - Song of the Heart
6th level - Planar Touchstone (kobold domain)
9th level - Melodic Casting.

other option is to play a Spellscale so i save up 1 feat, but my Dragonfire Inspiration will add fire damage.
(and i don't think that my DM will approve staff from dragon magazine).

what do you say?