T6 - tier based e6

[8wGremlin]

Ive be toying with the idea to write up an E6 style campaign
But instead of LA reducing stats, it would be your begining classes tier

So tier 6 gets the most point buy, and tier 1 the least.
Now I know that people could pick a t3 and then multiclass out, so what could we do to penalties that...


What do you think

[Sacrieur]

Ability bonuses taper off as class progression skills overshadow them.

Also, inb4 first level CW samurai and then wizard the rest of the way. It's just waiting to be abused like that.

[Flickerdart]

E6 takes away most of what makes the tier system hold true - the abilities that higher tiers gain at mid and high levels while the low tiers get sod all. You would need to do a thorough re-evaluation of what is in what tier. One could even argue that the general lack of campaign-breaking power present among 3rd level spells axes T1 entirely, and not having to "keep up" brings T5 classes up to their T4 peers (though lack of good features that only come online later pull other T5s down to 6).

Given that E6 is based on a specific premise (that the world in general is a much more mundane one, on par with Middle Earth rather than Faerun), it seems fair to divide tiers in it this way:
Superheroes: Characters that mock the premise from day one. All the old T1s, joined by most of the old T2s, who are capable of solving problems far past the "heroic" power level that E6 encourages. If you have access to 3rd level spells, you probably go here. Feats don't make these characters that much more powerful because they're already great, so these characters can afford to snap up the tricks from other classes and combo them with their existing powers.
Heroes: Characters that are very good at solving the problems they are faced with, and grow well using feats to match stronger enemies even after they hit the level ceiling. E6 just plain works for these guys. Binders, Incarnum classes, and ToB classes all place here. They use the bonus feats to logically progress their own features.
Sidekicks: Characters that are good at solving problems at this power level, but are hobbled by something that more feats simply doesn't solve. Maybe they're glass cannons, maybe they lack versatility, but whatever it is, these characters plateau once they hit 6th level and start falling behind after that by having to emulate the tricks of other classes, only nowhere near the competence level of the original.
Redshirts: These guys don't belong in E6, where every class level is precious. They have trouble with challenges from level 1, and never catch up.

[JeminiZero]

Simple solution: Ban multiclassing. For theurge-type characters, use my Trissociate (in sig) instead. [/shameless plug]

Real solution: Have a continuous point buy system, so that everybody starts from a fixed PB, and then gains attribute level up points as they take levels (including their first level), depending on which tier the class is.

So lets say we assign the following points: Tier 1: 0 Tier 2: 1 Tier 3: 2 Tier 4: 3 Tier 5: 4

Everbody starts from low level e.g. 24 pb. When they take their first level, they receive additional points. So if 1 guy takes sorcerer at level 1, he gains 1 additional attribute point (NOT point buy, this is like the level up attribute score increase). If he takes Sorcerer at every level, he gains 1 point at each subsequent level, until level 6.

Lets say another guy starts at Binder (tier 3, since you can't access the Summoning Vestige in E6) at level 1, So he gets 2 points. If he goes straight Binder, he gets 2 points every level until 6. But if he multiclasses out to Sorcerer, when he takes the Sorc level (and PrCs which prvodie full Sorc advancement like the Anima Mage), he only gets 1 point at each level.

This might be a bit high-powered for your liking though. E.g. a straight Barbarian (tier 4) under this system would get 3 points each level, and by level 6, could have +18 strength, on top of starting score and Rage bonus, making him HULK-SMASH strong!

Other solutions include giving some free stuff (like free LA, Bloodlines etc) to the lower tier characters, which is outlined here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php? t=249624).

[ericgrau]

If you want a simple to apply nerf then make it LA. LA hurts everyone regardless. Or to avoid low level hp issues, give out empty hit dice instead of LA. d6 HD, 3 poor saves, poor BAB for example. More than 2, or maybe 3 tops, should be avoided in all but the most extremely high optimized groups. Don't force a mildly optimized wizard to wonder why he can't accomplish anything. In fact, in many casual gaming groups I'd put the upper limit at 0 or 1 HD.

Even if you screw up on the amounts of HD someone who is 2 levels behind can still make a contribution. So you avoid the risk of totally ruining the game like 1,000 other "fixes" do.

Level 6 is a pretty nice level that makes it hard to break the system, which is probably why E6 selected it. You might want to delay the empty HDs until after level 6, and space them out. In that case a limit of 3 or 4 empty HD might not be so bad.

[Urpriest]

In order to avoid multiclassing-based problems, you could just require everyone to list their build out in advance. 3.5 basically makes that required anyway. Then just judge which tier the overall build's capabilities lie in.

[Lonely Tylenol]

If you're playing in an E6 game, you've already eliminated most of the problem. Yes, Wizards can still do cool things that Fighters can't do, but even archetypal abilities, like the ability to fly, represent the upper echelon of the Wizard's power, and their application of it is very limited. In order to outright break your campaign the way a high-level Wizard would, the Wizard both has to be actively trying and you overly permissive, or just incapable of providing even a basic challenge (an entire campaign of 1st-level Orcs, for example). You don't need such grand, sweeping changes to justify class equality in E6; perhaps just be a little more generous with the loot for your conventionally low-tier friends if the need arises.

[GreenETC]

I honestly don't think you need to limit the point buys too harshly. The only case where 3rd level spells would break the world in half is when the Tier 1 optimizes to some crazy degree. I think you may have to watch out for Druids however, simply because fullcasting + wild shape + animal companion is a very powerful group of skills in E6's limited scope.

Also, you shouldn't just be watching Tier 1/multiclassing characters. A straight Dungeoncrasher Fighter will destroy ANYTHING in E6, provided there's a wall near it. And with full BaB, he can easily go for a Shock Trooper or Tripper build.