Pathfinder Adventure Paths - Your experience [Archive]

yougi

2013-01-28, 09:29 AM

I DM this 3.5 game which is about to come to a close after a year and a half. I also play 1E with this other group of guys, which is also coming to a close soon, and the guys have elected to try 3E, with me as a DM. An important thing to mention is that there's one guy who plays in both groups.

It was hard to find, and it was expensive, but I recently bought PF's Kingmaker Adventure Path, and have decided to try it out with my 3.5 group. Two weeks ago, my "uncle" (actually my grandmother's second husband's daughter's son) passed away and I inherited his RPG book collection, which, to my suprise, contains most PF Adventure Paths (Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Second Darkness, Legacy of Fire, Council of Thieves, Serpent's Skull, Carrion Crown, and yes, of course, Kingmaker). I've decided to use at least one of them (and sell my own Kingmaker books) with my other group. However, I can't decide which one to use, and I might not have the time to read all of them to make my decision (I will eventually, but I have to make a decision in the next week or two).

And so I once again resort to the Playground: What are your experiences, either as DM or Player, of these Paths? What did you enjoy, what did you enjoy less? What's the focus of each one?

Also, and I should probably make a separate thread for this, are 3.5 characters strong enough to go through a PF Adventure Path as written? I give them a few bonuses over the pre-generated PCs (pre-gen'd characters have elite array (25PB), and I give them 32; 1st lv HP is (Con score + HD) instead of (Max HD + Con mod), so the fighters have about 22hp at first level, HP rolled is best of two dices, I use PF's Fighter and Paladin): is that enough? Should I just switch over to full PF (which would be a pain after all the money I sank into 3.5 Books?)

Cambrian

2013-01-28, 09:42 AM

Just switch over to PF and use the better parts of 3.5-- Any classes not in PF you should give a boost to to help them keep up (for example a favored soul is replaced by the oracle but there is no warblade). I also would boost up monks and fighters since they are so miserable.

No comment on the APs since I haven't ran any nor played in any but i'll be looking to run RotRL myself soon.

Need_A_Life

2013-01-28, 09:55 AM

Jade Regent and Curse of the Crimson Throne are personal favourites of mine, even if there are passages I'd cut from them (the end of game mysticism and a "let's leave the city for an adventure" passages, respectively).
I'm also not a big fan on the add-on rules systems the adventures present (Harrowing for CotCT and Relationship scores and caravan rules for JR), but I expect there will have been other groups that loved it.

I don't see any problem with 3.5 characters handling a pathfinder adventure path, though I would encourage stealing the "cantrips are at will" part of the rules from Pathfinder.
No more wizards with crossbows; acid splash will do fine, thank you very much.

Further, the first adventure of Serpent's Skull (on the island) is one I really loved [and, personally, would love to try playing a warforged through the adventure that taught me to fear disease, exposure and poison :smalltongue:]

Exirtadorri

2013-01-28, 10:02 AM

In my times playing PF with a group that came from 3.5 I have found that PF is extremely lethal.

The pregens are WAY to weak to really do to much. My main example is the quasit from Rise of the Rune Lords. DR and fast healing and flying with spell like powers with a returning dagger....against a second or third level group is a seriously major wipe.

My other example is Valeros, the pregen fighter. He comes with TWF (considered the worst build pretty much) and a feat called big game hunter. This feat gives +1 to hit and +2 damage against large or bigger creatures. The whole first chapter is about goblins.....

The female barbarian uses a large greatsword. She can't even use it without penalty. EVEN when raging she has a +0. Not worth it.

The monsters in PF are smarter, have new abilities and are overall stronger then the 3.5 counter part.

subject42

2013-01-28, 10:13 AM

Overall, I'm pretty impressed by Paizo's full blown adventure paths, except for two encounters in Rise of the Runelords.

The first is the freaking Quasit in Burnt Offerings. That combat ground down into a two-hour long puzzle session as we tried to figure out how to kill it. Note that at this point we had the thing pinned, but we couldn't break it's DR. It was a little absurd.

The second was a Lamia matriarch that can easily turn into two-round TPK if the DM isn't pulling any punches.

So long as you read ahead and think about your party composition, they're not bad at all, but those two specific encounters are up there with That Crab or the Mooncalf in Heart of Nightfang Spire in terms of bad encounter design.

Exirtadorri

2013-01-28, 10:21 AM

Is there an echo in here or is it just Horrible encounters.

The only upside to such hard encounters is that one of the goblins has a +3 flametounge that is medium sized....incredible!

The amount of treasure is really kool, mainly due to the fact that Rotrl is set on the Fast exp track.

OverdrivePrime

2013-01-28, 12:31 PM

It's a big module rather than adventure path, but I've spent the last 6 months with my players having a blast in The Harrowing module (http://paizo.com/products/btpy8lv9).

I've never seen such an expansive, well-made module before. We're all having a ton of fun!

MrLemon

2013-01-28, 12:53 PM

I give them a few bonuses over the pre-generated PCs (pre-gen'd characters have elite array (25PB), and I give them 32;
Pathfinders PB is different, you start at 10 with each attribute, can go down to 7 for up to 4 more points and the Attribute-costs are different (from 7 to 18: -4 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 5 7 10 13 17) Note that 16 costs the same in D&D

Not to mention that PF races come with +2 Ability-bonuses in total.

EDIT: I am stupid, sorry :smallfrown:

Pink

2013-01-28, 01:01 PM

It's worth mentioning that the first four, Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the crimson throne, second darkness and legacy of fire are all written for 3.5, not the pathfinder system.

I'd say Curse if the crimson throne, I've read the first two books and love them, and generally it's considered the best PF AP

Blisstake

2013-01-28, 01:26 PM

Yeah, if you don't want to worry about the Pathfinder rule changes, then just run one of the first four. Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne are generally well-received. Second Darkness has... serious issues, and Legacy of Fire never really got much attention, but I think it's solid.

subject42

2013-01-28, 01:37 PM

It's worth mentioning that the first four, Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the crimson throne, second darkness and legacy of fire are all written for 3.5, not the pathfinder system.

Rise of the Runelords was recently updated to Pathfinder rules.

Pink

2013-01-28, 01:40 PM

Rise of the Runelords was recently updated to Pathfinder rules.

Yes, but I'm assuming that the version he inherited is the 3.5 version.

yougi

2013-01-28, 08:44 PM

Pathfinders PB is different, you start at 10 with each attribute, can go down to 7 for up to 4 more points and the Attribute-costs are different (from 7 to 18: -4 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 5 7 10 13 17) Note that 16 costs the same in D&D

Not to mention that PF races come with +2 Ability-bonuses in total.

EDIT: I am stupid, sorry :smallfrown:

I know about the point buy difference, and I did calculate it in 3.5 terms given that I'm playing 3.5 (and will be using 3.5 PB). I also mixed up the races a bit so they have an overall +2 bonus.

It's worth mentioning that the first four, Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the crimson throne, second darkness and legacy of fire are all written for 3.5, not the pathfinder system.

I'd say Curse if the crimson throne, I've read the first two books and love them, and generally it's considered the best PF AP

That is interesting, did not know that. Regarding your impression of Curse, what's so awesome about it?

Yes, but I'm assuming that the version he inherited is the 3.5 version.

It seems to be the 3.5 version (checked in the most reliable way: pre-gen'd Rogue has Hide instead of Stealth!)

Pink

2013-01-28, 11:14 PM

AttilaTheGeek

2013-01-28, 11:19 PM

I'm partway through Rise of the Runelords. It's fantastic. We finished the first chapter and we are now level 4, and then went on hiatus for a couple months, but are just starting back up.

In my times playing PF with a group that came from 3.5 I have found that PF is extremely lethal.

The pregens are WAY to weak to really do to much. My main example is the quasit from Rise of the Rune Lords. DR and fast healing and flying with spell like powers with a returning dagger....against a second or third level group is a seriously major wipe.

Overall, I'm pretty impressed by Paizo's full blown adventure paths, except for two encounters in Rise of the Runelords.

The first is the freaking Quasit in Burnt Offerings. That combat ground down into a two-hour long puzzle session as we tried to figure out how to kill it. Note that at this point we had the thing pinned, but we couldn't break it's DR. It was a little absurd.

Yep. That encounter is silly. We were only able to kill it because I (the wizard) was super optimized and rolled all 4's on my only remaining spell (magic missile), bringing it down to exactly 0 hit points. Other deadly boss fights are the first fight with the goblins where Tsuto comes in (3 KO's), Nualia at the end of the first chapter (2 KO's), and...actually, pretty much all of them. Except ripnugget at the beginning of thistletop. He was kinda underwhelming, actually.

Personal note:, please fiat Bruthasmus in Thistletop, near the end of the first chapter, to be less obnoxious. For non-RotRL players: He's a bugbear with elf bane weaponry and I, the squishy wizard, am the only elf in the party. Suffice to say, three months later, we still refer to it as "the incident".

I'm not kidding. It was actually awful.

Ravens_cry

2013-01-28, 11:47 PM

I liked many I played in, though I think my least favourite was Council of Thieves. I guess it was because of my expectations. I was expecting an urban adventure of intrigue, but it turned out to be a dungeon crawl through people's basements. I had fun role playing a Witch with a fixation on the stars, but the adventure itself was less than enjoyable.
I loved the Sandbox elements of Kingmaker. I really enjoyed actually having the power and responsibility over a nation, but the story was much less so.
Other's disagree with me on this I know, but I didn't like the mixing of Alice and Wonderland elements with the Fay.
Those two, despite superficial similarities, are not the same thing at all to me.
I also didn't like all the fetch quests. It's bad enough as an adventurer. It's even more galling when your title is potentially King.

yougi

2013-01-29, 04:39 PM

I could spend a bit of time writing up what's impressed me about Curse of the Crimson Throne, but honestly I think it's best I just direct you to here (http://paizo.com/pathfinder/adventurePath/curseOfTheCrimsonThrone) and you can look at some of the product reviews on it and decide what you think, as some of the reviews are very extensive.

For me, a big thing is I do love urban adventures, and the base of CotCT is urban, though there is some travel and good-ole dungeon delving in it to. It does it well showing off a big variety of environments that can be found in cities, with events like rooftop chases and what not, and with a cast of colorful NPCs, including a masked vigilante that might be looking for a PC to replace him.

That does sound pretty darn awesome!

I liked many I played in, though I think my least favourite was Council of Thieves. I guess it was because of my expectations. I was expecting an urban adventure of intrigue, but it turned out to be a dungeon crawl through people's basements. I had fun role playing a Witch with a fixation on the stars, but the adventure itself was less than enjoyable.
I loved the Sandbox elements of Kingmaker. I really enjoyed actually having the power and responsibility over a nation, but the story was much less so.
Other's disagree with me on this I know, but I didn't like the mixing of Alice and Wonderland elements with the Fay.
Those two, despite superficial similarities, are not the same thing at all to me.
I also didn't like all the fetch quests. It's bad enough as an adventurer. It's even more galling when your title is potentially King.

Yeah, the fetch quests are indeed... problematic, to say the least, given the difference in rank.

I also found out my uncle had Skull & Shackles and Shattered Star in PDFs. Anything about these two?

Ravens_cry

2013-01-29, 04:48 PM

I'm playing in Skull and Shackles right and we recentlycame to the island on the Treasure Map, having killed the giant plant monster.
My opinions so far? Very amoral and sandboxy and a lot of fun if you are willing to go that route.
I haven't played Shattered Star.

subject42

2013-01-29, 05:05 PM

I also found out my uncle had Skull & Shackles and Shattered Star in PDFs. Anything about these two?

One of the players in my game is DMing a game of Skull & Shackles with some other folks. So far he's had two different characters end up losing limbs. Given the pirate theme, I guess that's good?

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-29, 05:05 PM

All I will say is this:

I'd sell my own grandmother up the river to get a hold of the entirety of Reign of Winter right now.

Paizo's printed adventure paths remind me of the crazy awesome stuff from AD&D and back, like Expedition to Barrier Peaks.

ngilop

2013-01-29, 05:06 PM

I love Rise of the Rune Lords.

while i will agree that xanesha (the 2nd chapter lamia matriarch) is over powered a simple swicth with lucretiea(sp..?) (the 3rd chapter lamia matriach) solves two issues at once. Issue 1) Xanseha is too powerful; Issue 2) lucretiea(s0?) is too weak

the quasit is far from a difficult fight. The entry says she is certifiably insane and should be played as much. If the DM is playing her 100% legit then he/she is doing it wrong.

plus there are ways to find out what you are going to be facing, and buy the needed scrolls/potions/wands etc

really the only issue i have with the quasrti is her returning dagger is worth more than the town can afford to pay for, especially after teh goblin raid. so woot your down 8K gold as a group..

yougi

2013-01-29, 05:13 PM

So far to be honest, after reading your opinions, product reviews and adventure summaries, it will be between Rise of the RLs, Curse of the CT, Skulls and Shackles, Legacy of Fire and Jade Regent. No one here has said much about the latter two, any experience?

Pink

2013-01-29, 05:33 PM

Regarding Jade Regent: I'm currently running it, just on the verge of starting the first book. In general I've found it quite enjoyable and well written and interesting, with one exception. The Caravan system.

As an 'optional' rule, Paizo developed a caravan system and encounters to represent traveling great distances by caravan. It has some mechanical flaws, but mostly it's boring, the party's efforts in combat are represented only by a singe dice roll each turn, and as a group we decided to scrap it after trying it out a little.

Now, scrapping it isn't too much of an issue for the first two books, but the third has one heavy integration with this system (hence my quotations around optional). I've found it difficult and quite a bit of work to prepare the third book in a way to still deliver the experience as intended because I need to think about and plan and rework several of the encounters designed for caravan rules but also quite boring to play through with the caravan rules.

Also, a note in Pathfinder APs, if you didn't notice each has a free to download .pdf Players Guide for each path. These are nice little files with some advice on good character choices (ie, what are good favored enemy choices for rangers), some information of the area and culture the adventure starts in, and traits that gives a small mechanical bonus and work as plot hooks to get them attached to the AP.

yougi

2013-01-29, 06:18 PM

Also, a note in Pathfinder APs, if you didn't notice each has a free to download .pdf Players Guide for each path. These are nice little files with some advice on good character choices (ie, what are good favored enemy choices for rangers), some information of the area and culture the adventure starts in, and traits that gives a small mechanical bonus and work as plot hooks to get them attached to the AP.

Good catch! Thank you!

And regarding Jade Regent's Caravan system, I'm not sure to totally understand what it's supposed to do... Is it meant to fast forward through large travel while still keeping (quickly played) random encounters?

AttilaTheGeek

2013-01-29, 07:59 PM

I'm partway through Rise of the Runelords. It's fantastic. We finished the first chapter and we are now level 4...

I love Rise of the Rune Lords.

while i will agree that xanesha (the 2nd chapter lamia matriarch) is over powered a simple swicth with lucretiea(sp..?) (the 3rd chapter lamia matriach) solves two issues at once. Issue 1) Xanseha is too powerful; Issue 2) lucretiea(s0?) is too weak

(emphasis mine)

Please put stuff like that in spoilers.

Pink

2013-01-29, 08:24 PM

Good catch! Thank you!

And regarding Jade Regent's Caravan system, I'm not sure to totally understand what it's supposed to do... Is it meant to fast forward through large travel while still keeping (quickly played) random encounters?

That's it in a nutshell, a way to still have random encounters but it streamlines them, a bit too much really. It also serves as a way to combat certain difficulties like weather, treacherous terrain, payment for NPCs, food rations, etc. But it doesn't function very well overall. Ultimately I think only book 3 relies on it to such a large degree that if you just pull all caravan related things out it feels like you're missing something. Mind I haven't looked at book 4 much, though my understanding is that it's not used at all after book 4.

In general it'd probably be wise to not have your first AP be highly dependent on a subsystem, especially if you have players new to 3.5 or PF as is. Off the top of my head, Kingmaker, Jade Regent and Skull & Shackles are the ones most tied to a subsystem, Kingdom Building, Caravan, and Ship Combat respectively. While subsystems or extra rules do appear in others, they're more a sort've add-on that can be removed without any effect I think (example, the harrow cards bit for Curse of the Crimson Throne)

ShadowFighter15

2013-01-29, 09:10 PM

To be fair, the Harrow stuff in Crimson Throne doesn't seem too complex (certainly not when you compare it to Caravans and Kingdom Building) so you might not need to remove it, depends on how you find it.

Incidentally; if you want to take a look at the rules for Caravans, they're in the back of the Jade Regent Player's Guide (start on page 16) (http://paizo.com/products/btpy8mh3?Pathfinder-Adventure-Path-Jade-Regent-Players-Guide).

yougi

2013-01-29, 09:27 PM

@ShadowFighter

Thanks! I've looked at the rules and, while they seem simple, it does not seem to add anything to the game...

@Pink

I agree. Let's keep the extra rules to a minimum...

So now, it's between Rise of the RL, Curse of the CT and Legacy of Fire. Any experience with Legacy of Fire, anyone?

Pink

2013-01-29, 10:18 PM

I wish I could tell you more about legacy of fire, but I haven't really gotten a chance to read through it myself. It is definitely on my list of APs that I want to run.

I don't believe there are any particular problems with legacy of fire, I've read good things about it. Mainly, the big thing about it is that it is so different setting and theme wise than a usual adventure. A lot of Arabian nights and that sort've stuff, a lot of djinn related stuff. I've also heard that, as far as playtime goes, it's one of the quicker pathfinder paths to play through.

In general, I think all three are good solid options, it just depends what sort've campaign you and your players will enjoy most.

Rise of the Runelords: Standard D&D, goblins, ogres, giants, dragons, archmages, lost dungeons, old keeps, mountain lairs, all with some good writing and surprises and dark twists on classics.
Curse of the Crimson Throne: Urban D&D, riots, crime, anarchy, plague, corrupt organization, slums, sewers, ancient temples. Marvelous story and amazing execution of some unique plots that aren't often seen in some campaigns.
Legacy of fire: Arabian D&D, deserts, gnolls, djinn, treasure, secret realms, wishes.

yougi

2013-01-29, 10:42 PM

Thank you so much Pink! You've been really helpful.

ShadowFighter15

2013-01-29, 10:44 PM

Rise of the Runelords: Standard D&D, goblins, ogres, giants, dragons, archmages, lost dungeons, old keeps, mountain lairs, all with some good writing and surprises and dark twists on classics.
Curse of the Crimson Throne: Urban D&D, riots, crime, anarchy, plague, corrupt organization, slums, sewers, ancient temples. Marvelous story and amazing execution of some unique plots that aren't often seen in some campaigns.
Legacy of fire: Arabian D&D, deserts, gnolls, djinn, treasure, secret realms, wishes.

One other benefit with Runelords - you can adapt the changes and corrections they made for the Anniversary Edition.
Swapping the stats of the lamia in part 2 with the one in part 3 to avoid a TPK, adding some more stuff to the final battle with Runelord Karzoug so that the vastly-powerful wizard-king doesn't get overwhelmed by the Action Economy. Probably a few more but those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head.

They aren't kidding when they say that the Anniversary Edition's effectively had ten years of playtesting. The changes should be easy enough to port back into the 3.5 version.