3.0 psionics differences

[Venger]

so, I was looking at ballisteer (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030426b) and saw it refer to "psionic attack and defense modes" and "free manifestations per day of 0 level powers"

the only place I've heard the phrase "psionic combat" used is in hyperconscious.

what is it? how does it work? what other differences exist between 3.0 psionics and 3.5?

[sonofzeal]

Instead of giving a technical explaination, I'll give an intuitive one:


I have used this model before, but to really appreciate how this "class feature" worked you should see how it would apply if ported to mainstream D&D where they haven't been conditioned to accept inferior mechanics without question. Lets take the big sacred moo, a Cleric's undead turning ability:

DM: "Before we get started, Cleric, I just want you to know that I am instituting some changes in your turn undead class feature that will make your class more different and give it a unique divine mechanic."

Player: "OK. How does it work now?"

DM: "Well, for starters, when you attempt to turn undead you will now have to burn a spell."

Player: "A spell???? What level?"

DM: "Different levels. It depends on what turning mode you want to use. Sanctified Gesture takes a level 1, Divine Dance of Power takes a level 2, High Holly Homina Homina takes a level 3, and...."

Player: "Wait, I assume I will get a bonus on the roll based on the level of spell slot I sacrifice?"

DM: "Sometimes you will. Other times you will get a penalty based on the turning defense mode the opponent selects. Turning and turning defense modes will interact on a table. The table determines the actual DC of the roll, not the level of the spell slot burned. Choosing a given defense mode may actually mean you pay a spell to get a penalty on the save, but it will still be better than being defenseless."

Player: "The undead will get defense modes?"

DM: "Sure, so will you. Each round you will select a turning attack mode and a defense mode. In fact, you will need to select a defense mode against each undead opponent each and every round and each will cost you spell slots."

Player: "Wwwwwwhat????!!!!!! What if I am facing undead who do not cast spells, I assume they won't get to mount a defense?"

DM: "It doesn't matter if you face undead without casting ability because their turning and turning defense modes are free."

Player: "Wait a minute! This is stupid! One of my 3rd level spell slots could be spent on Searing Light which fries undead; why would I ever spend it on an attack mode that might help me on a turning attempt? And why would I ever take a turning defense mode, much less a separate one vs. each undead opponent? I would simply choose to ignore undead or cast spells against them or go at them with weapons. I would have to have brain damage to choose to turn with these rules!"

DM: "If you fail to mount a defense then each unblocked undead gets a special +8 bonus to hit you for having this wonderful class feature and choosing not to use it. They also get to drain your stats if they hit. This will apply also to anyone who adds a level of Cleric; multiclassing will be very flavorful."

Player: "But I am a spellcaster, I need to be able to cast spells. How can I do my job if my spell slots get sucked away every time we run into undead?"

DM: "Well, how can you do your job if you are dead or reduced to a mindless state? You need to use your spells this way or you may not live long enough to cast them anyway."

Player: Head down, silently weeping into his hands.

DM: "I should mention too that you will be able to make turn undead attempts vs. nonundead; if you succeed they will be stunned for a few rounds. Of course, everyone who does not have this feature will get a huge bonus on the save DC. The best part: If you blow a 5th level spell to use High Holy Hokey Pokey then everyone in a large area could be stunned for a long while and they don't get a bonus vs. this one mode -- that makes the entire system usable and balanced."

Player: "They should all be stunned if they ever see me willingly use these rules. This is preposterous! I need my spells to heal and buff and perform all the functions of a Cleric. How am I going to be of any use to the party if I hemorrhage spell slots every time we run into undead?"

DM: "That is the beauty of it: You get to choose whether to use your spell slots as they were intended or save your own hide by using them to turn. Come on and at least give it a chance. It will be a mechanic unique to your class so it must be a benefit. You don't want to be just another spellcaster do you? This will add so much flavor and.... Hey! Get him off of me!"

Player: "How ya like that fist flavor?"

Credit goes to AntiDjinn on the WotC Boards.

[Flickerdart]

so, I was looking at ballisteer (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030426b) and saw it refer to "psionic attack and defense modes" and "free manifestations per day of 0 level powers"

the only place I've heard the phrase "psionic combat" used is in hyperconscious.

what is it? how does it work? what other differences exist between 3.0 psionics and 3.5?
Psionic combat is...well, sonofzeal's quote puts it right. Every turn, you have the option of using a psionic defense mode (one of five mental maneuvers that cost PP) as a free action, and a psionic attack mode (also five, also cost PP) as a standard action. These did ability damage to psionic creatures and briefly stunned nonpsionic ones if they failed a save. There was a table to match the interaction that every attack mode and defense mode had. It wasn't pleasant.

There also used to be 0th level powers called Talents, which you got 3/day of for free and then subsequent uses were 1PP each.

3.0 psionics also had different psion disciplines use one of the six ability scores to key their powers (psychic warriors had everything based off Wisdom), there were different powers (no augmentation), instead of psionic focus features required you to have a certain number of PP remaining, and powers were learned on a table like Sorcerer spells known.

I made a conversion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11362534#post11362534) of Ballisteer into 3.5 if you're interested.

[ArcturusV]

Sounds like 3.0 Psionics wasn't any different from 2nd Edition Psionics. Which had pretty much the exact same level of stupid involved. No wonder I never bothered with them. I take it with 3.5 though they smoothed out some of that so it's less painful to be a mental master?

[Psyren]

Sounds like 3.0 Psionics wasn't any different from 2nd Edition Psionics. Which had pretty much the exact same level of stupid involved. No wonder I never bothered with them. I take it with 3.5 though they smoothed out some of that so it's less painful to be a mental master?

In 3.5 they made it exactly like regular spell casting except it uses points instead of slots. So yes, much easier and better.

The main rule to keep in mind with the 3.5 version is that you can never spend more points on a power than your manifester level (caster level.) Most tables that think the system is unbalanced are forgetting that simple rule.

Also, Bruce Cordell (the guy behind the XPH) fixed most of the psionic combat silliness from 3.0 and updated it for 3.5; if you're interested in it, look for his 3rd party splat, Hyperconscious.

[Venger]

Also, Bruce Cordell (the guy behind the XPH) fixed most of the psionic combat silliness from 3.0 and updated it for 3.5; if you're interested in it, look for his 3rd party splat, Hyperconscious.

I love hyperconscious very much. it's got psionic lich, chronorebel, awakened dreamer, and all kinds of other cool stuff in there. I did always wonder abut what the "mode check modifiers" were on their tables. now I know.