Need help with a Pathfinder game

[Black Mage]

So, last week my group and I got a crazy idea. We decided to do a one shot game sometime in the near future (probably this friday). The idea is this: Build the biggest badass you can within the rules and see who comes out on top.

Basically, we plan on doing a bunch of one on one and two on two matches, and see who made the best character.

Here are the rules:

Character generation
1) All stats will be generated using the Elite Array (15,14,13,12,10,8)
2) No third party books. Only books published by Paizo are allowed.
3) Races are limited to the Core races, and Featured races from Advanced Race Guide.
4) No limit on alignment.
5) Everyone goes into this blind. No one knows what another person is bringing to the table until the day it happens.
6) 15th level.
7) Standard starting gold for 15th level.
8) No more than 1/3 of your gold may be spent on any one item.
9) No Leadership feat unless it is granted as a class ability, in which case you may only bring your cohort.

The Arena
1) Maxium height of 100 ft. in order to limit flight, but keep it as a viable option.
2) Terrain will be random, and determined at the start of each match. Anything from mountain, to urban, to dungeons.
3) Weather will be random as well. Extreme heat to extreme cold, as well as storms are all a possibility.
4) Consumable items will not replenish. Anything that is use per day will be recharged at the start of every match. Including spells.
5) Players must agree on allowing up to two rounds of "buff" time before the match begins. Both players must agree to this.


So, there's the rules for this little game.
My question is...what do I play?! :smalleek:

With the stat array, Monk is out. With the terrain changing, and not knowing the other players races, Ranger would be difficult to use to full effect. Casters would be tricky, what with not knowing what you need to prepare for.

I've been thinking about a Alchemist (just bomb and poison them into oblivion) or Gunslinger (ranged touch attacks? Yes please). Maybe even a Sunder build Fighter or Barbarian to take away their nice things, and then kill them.

I'm curious if anyone here has any advice or ideas though. I'm a bit rusty on character optimization because I've tried to stay away from that for a while. But now I really need it.

[W3bDragon]

Well. If the arena will have a height of 100 ft, that instantly makes flying not just desirable, but required. You need to be able to fly, and the faster the better. Also, good maneuverability and a backup plan if your flight gets dispelled and important concerns.

Beyond that, at the level you're playing, a caster will definitely have an advantage. Fast flight, invisibility, non detection. Go to town.

In all fairness though, where's the fun in having us build a character for you? Didn't your rules say to build the biggest badass "you" can come up with? :smalltongue:

[Hopeless]

How about something like a 6th level sorceror and 9th level fighter?

Take still spell to get around arcane spell failure along with extend spells and select your spells carefully so magic weapon might be advisable if you want to avoid paying shedloads on magical weapons and mage armour with shield only if you don't plan on using full plate when you can forgo mage armour to go only with extended still shield (treated as 3rd level spell), the levels on fighter allow you to go with improved critical and the extra fighter bonus feats might want to consider Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave and so on but ability scores?

At 15th level you have +3 ability score increases and you don't need access to more than 3rd level spells so Charisma needs only be 14 tops.


Basically, we plan on doing a bunch of one on one and two on two matches, and see who made the best character.
Here are the rules:
Character generation
1) All stats will be generated using the Elite Array (15,14,13,12,10,8)

Str 15, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 13

So increase Charisma to 14 and then last 2 to Strength increasing that to 17.


2) No third party books. Only books published by Paizo are allowed.
3) Races are limited to the Core races, and Featured races from Advanced Race Guide.

Unless you fancy something elaborate stick to the core rules if anything that will throw your fellow players off!


4) No limit on alignment.

Go Neutral prevents any problems due to alignment if your fellow players are going to be your main opponents...


5) Everyone goes into this blind. No one knows what another person is bringing to the table until the day it happens.
6) 15th level.
7) Standard starting gold for 15th level.

So thats a total of 34,800gp so no more than 11,600gp on any one item correct?

So +1 Full plate is worth 2,650gp okay for an AC of 10+8+1+1 (Dex) for 20 by itself.
For weapons go Bastard Sword +2 or +1 with a special ability of no more than a +1 value as the total of this would be 8,335gp.

Go for a composite bow of Strength 17 costs 100gp and make it a +1 weapon for 1400gp and then look at arrows remembering your character is going to select Magic Weapons as one of his 1st level spells which enchants 50 of these per casting and only one melee weapon remember...


8) No more than 1/3 of your gold may be spent on any one item.

Consider a Belt of physical might since for a +2 bonus to two physical ability scores it only costs 5,000 gp (Str & Con) whilst to offset that wisdom score I'd suggest a headband of inspied wisdom which costs 2,000gp to increase your wisdom score from 8 to 10 removing that penalty to your saves.

Rings of protection costs 2000gp for +1 and 8,000gp for a +2 so consider that after you've selected your spells if you go for this option, but also remember the Amulet of Natural Armour as it costs the same and they stack even with regular armour!.


9) No Leadership feat unless it is granted as a class ability, in which case you may only bring your cohort.

The Arena
1) Maxium height of 100 ft. in order to limit flight, but keep it as a viable option.
2) Terrain will be random, and determined at the start of each match. Anything from mountain, to urban, to dungeons.
3) Weather will be random as well. Extreme heat to extreme cold, as well as storms are all a possibility.
4) Consumable items will not replenish. Anything that is use per day will be recharged at the start of every match. Including spells.
5) Players must agree on allowing up to two rounds of "buff" time before the match begins. Both players must agree to this.

Sounds like a dispel magic or a scroll of greater dispel magic might be worth considering even with a caster level check it would be worth it!



So, there's the rules for this little game.
My question is...what do I play?!

With the stat array, Monk is out. With the terrain changing, and not knowing the other players races, Ranger would be difficult to use to full effect. Casters would be tricky, what with not knowing what you need to prepare for.

I've been thinking about a Alchemist (just bomb and poison them into oblivion) or Gunslinger (ranged touch attacks? Yes please). Maybe even a Sunder build Fighter or Barbarian to take away their nice things, and then kill them.

I'm curious if anyone here has any advice or ideas though. I'm a bit rusty on character optimization because I've tried to stay away from that for a while. But now I really need it.

Spells for a 6th level Sorceror with an effective charisma of 14 would be;

Bloodline: Go for either Aberrant, Celestial or Elemental.
Have to say 15th level as a Sorceror of Aberrant bloodline might be worth looking at mind you!:smalleek:

[Black Mage]

In all fairness though, where's the fun in having us build a character for you? Didn't your rules say to build the biggest badass "you" can come up with? :smalltongue:

I'm not looking for someone to build a character for me :smalltongue: Just a little input and some ideas. There's a lot of choices! :smalleek:

Right now I've built an alchemist that is immune to cold and non-lethal, and can fly for 15 minutes a day...more than enough to cover one of the matches. As well as some cloudkill bombs :smallamused:

I've also got a gunslinger that threatens 15 feet, and has a base range of 160, dealing 1d10+24 a hit (with touch attacks). He can't fly, but his range makes up for it.

I'm probably gonna start building that sunder fighter today. Maul of the Titans would be nice. Was thinking about going Two-handed fighter....but Barbarian might be better so I can get Sunder Enchantment, that way I don't have to worry about the plus of the other players weapons.


Also, starting gold at 15th is 240,000. So that's a max of 80,000 on a single item. I'll start looking at Abberant bloodline now.

And yeah, neutral is a given. It's the safest alignment in this.

[Jacob.Tyr]

I'm not looking for someone to build a character for me :smalltongue: Just a little input and some ideas. There's a lot of choices! :smalleek:

Right now I've built an alchemist that is immune to cold and non-lethal, and can fly for 15 minutes a day...more than enough to cover one of the matches. As well as some cloudkill bombs :smallamused:

I've also got a gunslinger that threatens 15 feet, and has a base range of 160, dealing 1d10+24 a hit (with touch attacks). He can't fly, but his range makes up for it.

I'm probably gonna start building that sunder fighter today. Maul of the Titans would be nice. Was thinking about going Two-handed fighter....but Barbarian might be better so I can get Sunder Enchantment, that way I don't have to worry about the plus of the other players weapons.


Also, starting gold at 15th is 240,000. So that's a max of 80,000 on a single item. I'll start looking at Abberant bloodline now.

And yeah, neutral is a given. It's the safest alignment in this.

I'd go with the gunslinger, and load up on ammo types. Put everything you can into dex, first to act will be brutally important in this. Variety of ammo will let you adapt to any opponent easily.

One of the most important tricks will be getting past invisible enemies. Hand of glory will give you see invisible once/day, and lets you wear a 3rd ring while taking your neck slot(8k). I'm not sure about other ways to get see invis, but I'd make it a priority. You can already tackle flight with your range, now figure out a way to shut down invisibility and you've taken out two huge tricks.

I would suggest rings of energy resistance, just for the DR, maybe carry a spider climb potion or two just in case you can use it to avoid someone with ****ty range/lack of flight.

How many fights do you get? If it's elimination and you only need to win a handful of fights you might want to invest in great magic weapon/vestments potions to get a higher bonus for cheaper, and stack other bonuses on your weapons.

[Black Mage]

I'd go with the gunslinger, and load up on ammo types. Put everything you can into dex, first to act will be brutally important in this. Variety of ammo will let you adapt to any opponent easily.

One of the most important tricks will be getting past invisible enemies. Hand of glory will give you see invisible once/day, and lets you wear a 3rd ring while taking your neck slot(8k). I'm not sure about other ways to get see invis, but I'd make it a priority. You can already tackle flight with your range, now figure out a way to shut down invisibility and you've taken out two huge tricks.

I would suggest rings of energy resistance, just for the DR, maybe carry a spider climb potion or two just in case you can use it to avoid someone with ****ty range/lack of flight.

How many fights do you get? If it's elimination and you only need to win a handful of fights you might want to invest in great magic weapon/vestments potions to get a higher bonus for cheaper, and stack other bonuses on your weapons.

There's a couple items that will give see invisibility that I can think of, and those will be on my list. As for the energy resistance, I think I'd rather just get a ring of evasion. My reflex would be the highest save, and most energy based attacks availiable to PCs are reflex save for half. Evasion should give more bang for my buck.

I'm not sure how many fights there will be. There's only five of us total (one of which might not play. Might try to get her to be a DM for this...someone to oversee everything, make sure no one is cheating.) Odds are we'll just go until we get bored, then count up this wins. One shot items like potions are probably a bad option. Wands would be more useful, but that would require skill ranks. Not that many skills are useful in this.

[W3bDragon]

Another important consideration is how hitpoints will be determined. If everyone is taking max hitpoints, you shouldn't have any issues, but if you're rolling, you need to make sure you have over 150 hitpoints.

If not, I wouldn't be surprised if you run into a 15th level caster that casts power word stun on you the first chance he gets. With his caster level, whatever spell resistance you can field will be manageable for him, and there is no save. After which, giving a caster 1d4 rounds will usually mean certain death, or near enough.

Basically I would advise that you flip through the list of 8th level arcane or divine spells to see what most caster opponents will cast on you the first rounds of combat and prepare accordingly.

Edit: Just saw Euphoric Tranquility. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/euphoric-tranquility) Ouch.

[OverdrivePrime]

Ah, fun! :smallbiggrin: My friends and I did rolling deathmatch battles for a year back when we were playing 3.5 - they were a blast. My favorite was my Jade Phoenix Mage, also 15th level. A bard is a fun character to win with as well. Nothing humiliates a minmaxer more than getting their butt handed to them by a guy with a lute.

I haven't tried deathmatch games in Pathfinder, but I've been really impressed by the survival powers of the witch class. Not a lot of offense, but they've got some crazy awesome debuffs. If you can get into melee with a sleep hex and wreath of blades or something like it, you can do some pretty heavy damage.

I imagine someone's going to be bringing a wizard or druid to the table. An abjuration specialist would be pretty tough to deal with.

What about a summoner? Having an Eidolon as backup and spamming creatures would bog down most singular opponents.

In case you guys are interested, here are four of the maps my friends and I used to play on. I made them, feel welcome to use and enjoy! (Links go to PDFs on my Google Drive account.)
The Pugilist's Arena (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BztfmAi_cmKEc2REQlhEekF6UFU/edit)
Nevoda Arena (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BztfmAi_cmKEVm1rcWlkSFk1OEU/edit)
Hitheon's Roost (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BztfmAi_cmKEYVBxM2g4YWY3QmM/edit)
Hall of Ares (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BztfmAi_cmKENEphYXJidEZHMEU/edit)

[Black Mage]

Another important consideration is how hitpoints will be determined. If everyone is taking max hitpoints, you shouldn't have any issues, but if you're rolling, you need to make sure you have over 150 hitpoints.

Edit: Just saw Euphoric Tranquility. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/euphoric-tranquility) Ouch.
We're doing max HP. And seeing that spell...and a couple other emotion based spells that cripple you even on a successful save...I'm wishing I could make an Android (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/android).



I imagine someone's going to be bringing a wizard or druid to the table. An abjuration specialist would be pretty tough to deal with.

What about a summoner? Having an Eidolon as backup and spamming creatures would bog down most singular opponents.


I'm not 100% sure, but the things I'm expecting to deal with are:
1) A non-lethal based rogue, using the sap master feats in order to get ridiculous non-lethal sneak attack damage. Immunity to crits, or at least 75% immunity, is easier to get than immunity to non-lethal (alchemist being the only way I can think of). I've seen this build done at low levels, and throwing down damage in the 60's at 3rd or 4th level.
2) Some kind of arcane caster, likely a wizard, but possibly a sorcerer. The player usually goes generalist. That's all I've got to go on with him.
3) A Blackblade/Kensei archetype Magus focusing on crits. Not fun to deal with.
4) No clue. This is the person that may or may not be making it, and she's not very good at making ridiculous combat characters. She gets lucky sometimes, but there's really no telling what she'll bring to the table.

I could be entirely wrong about what types of characters they're bringing. But I think I'll see at least one of those in the arena. Finding a way to counter all of them is difficult. And trying to counter what I think they're bringing, could get me killed if they don't bring what I expect.

I was considering a summoner or druid as a viable option. Swarming the other player could be the easiest way of winning. I must research this.

I'm definitely going to bring those maps to the table. Especially the Nevoda Arena. That one looks fun. Especially if we decide to do a big free for all at some point.

[AttilaTheGeek]

Actually, there's a PbP game that does exactly this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264757). The only differences are that there are brackets at 6, 11, and 16, no buff rounds, and no flight limit. You should look into it- it's great. Last I checked, a Summoner with an Eidolon, Improved Familiar, and some perma-summon made a team of four and went something crazy like 3-0 or 4-0 in the 16 bracket.

Casters are very, very powerful, especially with buff rounds. I'd play a Sorcerer, and use the rounds for Greater Invisibility, Quickened Shield, Summon Monster (something big), and Quickened Bear's Endurance.

Random pieces of advice, in no particular order:
-See if you can start with Overland Flight because it's really an all-day buff.
-Metamagic rods of Quicken or Maximize will be great investments.
-Watch out for the magus. (S)He will one- or two-shot you if you're not careful.
-Summons are great.
-Be sure you get True Seeing.
-You need to be able to fly, or you lose.
-Action economy becomes really, really important here.
-Summons are really great.
-Don't count on invisibility, but you should still have it.
-If you have any healing at all, you will win a war of attrition.

[Black Mage]

I think I may have found my win button. We're 15th level. Check out the nice little ability that the Ronin (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/samurai/samurai-orders/paizo---samurai-orders/ronin-knight-errant) order for Samurai gets at 15th...

As long as I make sure I have flight, and a way to see invisible things, as well as tweaking my bonus on crit confirmation rolls as much as possible... A vorpal katana wins the game. :smallamused: