Pathfinder: Help me build a character?

[darklink_shadow]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this, but after snooping around for a while it seems to be.

I'm playing a Pathfinder game, and the party I am in is pretty small, (4 people counting myself) and so far we have an inquisitor, a fighter and an alchemist. Every single one of them has picked CHA as a dump stat, so we have no diplomacy guy. We also have no crowd control, and no trap finder / lock picker type guy. We're starting at level 8 and the DM has plans to use premade campaigns, so I asked him about possibly taking the leadership feat to supplement out party with a cohort. He said he was against taking the feat but said if I took two levels in Noble Scion, he would allow me to have a cohort via the class feature.

As such, I want to make a character who can use diplomacy, crowd control the enemy, and take two levels of noble scion, and get a rogue-esq body guard. My character idea is as follows: He will be a rich, self-important, delusional schmoozer who just seems to escape certain by an inch every time he goes outside through sheer luck, and maybe a little skill. And also the help of his dangerous bodyguard. Basically, he is very gung ho about doings things and is so self-assured that he will succeed that he ignores the risks, leaving his bodyguard to save his ass all the time. But I don't want him to be totally useless, so I want him to also crowd control. I was thinking sorcerer, or the court bard.

My problem with the court bard is that it really feels like a bard is going to be complicated to use. He doesn't have enough uses of his bardic performances to just do that all the time, and he doesn't have enough spells to use them all the time either. I'd really like this character to basically take four seconds each round to figure out what he should do, and then not much time to do it. I plan to play the rogue as my real character in combat, and the leader guy out of combat to deal with our party's current lack of social skills.

So, I am guessing that means the sorcerer is a better option, since I can just learn crowd control spells and quickly pick one that is useful in the given situation, hand him a cross bow and have him shoot it if he has no useful spell that round. But then I need to pick a bloodline, and can't really decide. Is protean the best for what I am wanting my character to do? A free tanglefoot bag all the time to entangle my enemies is great, and is basically just as good as a spell in some cases, right?

My last idea was some kind of net wielding paladin guy. Just keep tossing nets out to entangle people.

Anyways, I'm stumped on what to do here. Maybe I just need some proding in the right direction to get into this, but I've never played before, and I am feeling overwhelmed. I just know I want a high CHA diplomat with CC, who gives up two levels of whatever he is for two levels of Noble Scion to get a rogue buddy to kill his enemies.

I don't really know how to make a rogue either, but hey, at least I do know which class I want! Unless you can suggest a good thematic alternative to the rogue that can be our trap monkey and lock picker. I'm not really asking for help with this one, but I am open to suggestions if you have any off the top of your heads.

I've come to the conclusion that I need help very late at night, so I will likely go to bed within half an hour of posting this, and will check it tomorrow when I get back from my scholastic and professional obligations, and again when I return from my night class.

If this is in the wrong place, I apologize, and if I am too wordy, I apologize again. If I am in error for any other reason, I apologize once more.

Thanks for reading! :smallbiggrin:

TL;DR

I want a CHA based CC guy, who is level 8 and has 2 levels of Noble Scion to pick up a rogue buddy to kill my enemies, but don't know how best to accomplish (or even start approaching) this task. I'll be MIA for a while as well, and often over the next few days. And if something is wrong, sorry! :smallsmile:

[Baroncognito]

I don't think you need two characters for this.

Make an Archaeologist. Take Vagabond Child as your trait and that gets you disable device as a class ability (and gives you a little bit of back story).

Bards have whip proficiency so you can make short ranged trip attacks (10-15 feet), and there are actually a few cool battlefield control bard spells, even by level 8.

[darklink_shadow]

Where do I mail the thank you card?

I skipped over Archaeologist completely because it SOUNDED like something I didn't want and Bards also looked too complicated for me to handle. But without all the music nonsense, it's a much simpler class. I thematically like even using a whip here, but are my trip attempts going to land very often? Will I need to pump up my stats? What kind of feats do I take?

I feel like this is probably my best route to take, but I am unclear on the path. Regardless, thank you very much! I will likely go this route unless something more promising is proposed.

[Eldariel]

You shouldn't bother with tripping, really; Whips can't AoO, you'll have a hard time getting enough CMB and it's feat intensive, something you don't have excess of. It's fun if you wanna be Indiana Jones tho. I suggest just focusing on BFC spells; Bards get a lot of good ones. They're no Wizards but you can make do in a bit lower optimization party. Detect Magic and Dispel Magic also enable dealing with magic traps which could otherwise be problems since you can't Disarm them. And yeah, you get Grease, Glitterdust, Haste, Confusion, etc.

The other option is just Elf Wizard with some Charisma (useful anyways for Planar Bindings, Charms and such) using traits to pick up your class skills; they get a lot of Int so they're okay as Trapfinders, and familiar = Alertness - add Elf Perception bonus and you're more than fine with like 18, 10 Wis and 14 Cha. Int covers you for skillpoints so it's just a matter of picking the class skills. Additional Traits to pick up all the social stuff should have you covered after you pick like Vagabond Child and Dungeon Delver or such to get Disable Device and Perception. Magic enhances all this, of course.

[Killer Angel]

I would try a sorcerer with infernal bloodline, so you'll have diplomacy as class skill, on a high cha chassis. You'll give arcane spells to your group... you only have to pick battlefield control ones, and choose one summon for your source of expendable trapfinders.
This alone will cover your main requests.

[darklink_shadow]

What is BFC? Also, if I go bard, which is sounding much more appealing than wizard for some reason, what can I do to either get more spells to use each day, or what can I do when I don't want to use a spell due to my limited number of useful spells? And what about feats...

[darklink_shadow]

expendable trapfinders..

I should have mentioned this, but I plan on being good, no matter what I end up doing, because evil isn't allowed and I feel like high CHA people need a strong conviction one way or the other.

Summoning puppies to go eat arrow traps is not a nice thing to do.

[Killer Angel]

I should have mentioned this, but I plan on being good, no matter what I end up doing, because evil isn't allowed and I feel like high CHA people need a strong conviction one way or the other.

Summoning puppies to go eat arrow traps is not a nice thing to do.

Ah, that negates the infernal sorcerer, which doesn't give a damn about sacrificable minions. What a pity... :smallsmile:

Eh, but who knows? your fate is still your own: you can be of good alignment, using hellish minions as tools for dangerous tasks: a sort of "twisted" good, that makes evil suffer with no remorse, to fight the destiny forged by that ancestor that made a deal with a devil...



What is BFC?

BFC spells: BattleField Control spells

[darklink_shadow]

Ah, that negates the infernal sorcerer, which doesn't give a damn about sacrificable minions. What a pity... :smallsmile:

Eh, but who knows? your fate is still your own: you can be of good alignment, using hellish minions as tools for dangerous tasks: a sort of "twisted" good, that makes evil suffer with no remorse, to fight the destiny forged by that ancestor that made a deal with a devil...

I appreciate the idea, but no, I want to be the simple and predictable kind fo good. I'm going to tinker with an archaeologist for a while and see if I can't make it do what I want.

I was also re-reading summoner, which doesn't seem too bad.. I just donno. I almost want to make a barbarian and say, **** it, the party is going to just die!

[Eldariel]

Don't count out the Wizard-option either; they're fairly amazing at it all things considered, and they have the best control magic of them all. ½ spell levels ahead of Sorcs too; Sorcs would be okay if not for only 2 skill/level, while Wizards have enough for Knowledge: Arc, Spellcraft, other Knowledges and still have enough leftover for Disable Device, Perception (plus small class bonus from familiar), Sense Motive (plus small class bonus from familiar), Diplomacy, Bluff and Intimidate. And your familiar to roll second rolls for each of them as desired, or at least Aid Another. And spells to get the dirty stuff done and all the good stuff. Wizards are awesome.

[Crustypeanut]

What Premade are you doing, do you know? If its an adventure path, it might help to know the theme of it, as some adventure paths require some specific skills in order to survive and thrive.

For example, if its the Skulls and Shackles adventure path, a more pirate-themed diplomatic guy might be useful. Stuff like that, if you're doing an adventure path.

If its just a premade one shot, then nevermind this :P

[Killer Angel]

I was also re-reading summoner, which doesn't seem too bad.. I just donno. I almost want to make a barbarian and say, **** it, the party is going to just die!

Summoner is effectively great. You'll cast not so much spells, but you obtain excellent buffs at a lower level, and the Eidolon is very versatile AND strong in melee combat. Basically, you'll control 2 characters, and your summons will have lots of advantages (good casting time and duration).
As a personal opinion, Summoner is one of the classes in PF, that's most fun to play .

[subject42]

Are you allowed to use Psionics Unleashed Material? A Thrallherd would cover pretty much all of your needs.

[Arbane]

If you want to make a character who can do roguey stuff and have good social-fu, how about a ninja (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/ninja)? They're basically rogues with charisma-based ki powers instead of Evasion, and they get all the social skills.

[AttilaTheGeek]

What about rakshasa (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/rakshasa-bloodline)-bloodline sorcerer? It basically has diplomancer written all over it.

[avr]

What about rakshasa (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/rakshasa-bloodline)-bloodline sorcerer? It basically has diplomancer written all over it.
Add the seeker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/seeker-sorcerer) archetype and you get trapfinding & disable device (with a half-level bonus) which fit another part of gap in the party. Loses you that tasty detect thoughts ability, admittedly, but by 8th level you could metamagic a spell to match if you really wanted. Seeker gives you a hobby which helps explain why a member of the idle rich is off dungeon-delving too.

Although - that archetype is for oracles too. An oracle with the heavens mystery is at one of its sweet spots at 8th level, and between the mystery spells and a few summoning spells, maybe wind wall and deeper darkness as well could certainly do battlefield control.

[Baroncognito]

I think that my favourite thing about Archaeologist is that:


Archaeologist’s luck is treated as bardic performance for the purposes of feats, abilities, effects, and the like that affect bardic performance

Combining that with Exquisite Accompaniment (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/exquisite-accompaniment) means that, while you don't need music for anything you do, you'll have good luck any time you've got theme music playing.

Probably not the best use of a third level spell, but it amuses me.

[doko239]

As such, I want to make a character who can use diplomacy, crowd control the enemy, and take two levels of noble scion, and get a rogue-esq body guard. My character idea is as follows: He will be a rich, self-important, delusional schmoozer who just seems to escape certain by an inch every time he goes outside through sheer luck, and maybe a little skill. And also the help of his dangerous bodyguard. Basically, he is very gung ho about doings things and is so self-assured that he will succeed that he ignores the risks, leaving his bodyguard to save his ass all the time. But I don't want him to be totally useless, so I want him to also crowd control. I was thinking sorcerer, or the court bard.

So, basically, you wanna make the Green Hornet and Kato? :smallbiggrin:

[Person_Man]

Have you considered a re fluffed Ninja or a Ninja/Paladin?

All the Skills you could need for traps and scouting and party face stuff, Cha based, and a bunch of Tricks (or Rogue Talents). I'm sure if you went through them all (and the various Paladin archetypes) you could find some good battlefield control options.

Also, you might want to look at Taunt, Bewildering Koan, Step Up->Following Step, Sap Adept->Sap Master (and maybe have your follower or another party member take 2 levels of Flowing Monk), and all the various Fear combos out there.