Iron Kingdoms Opinions?

[hamlet]

A very quick search did not reveal an existing page, though I seem to recal one from not too too long ago, so I started a new one here.

Has anybody tried the new Iron Kingdoms book? Is it any good? Worth the arguably high asking price?

How about the old? I have little or no experience with it, just curious and I've got a sudden itch for steam-punk/magic-punk type game that maybe isn't Eberron.

[Raimun]

Iron Kingdoms is great fun if you enjoy a little bit of tactics during combats. The game kind of requires miniatures when it's fighty time.

Fights itself are quite fast and fu... intense. If your character is any good at what (s)he does, you'll drop at least one enemy per turn. Only really elite enemies can take more. You have amazing abilities but fights are still deadly. That means you need both head and guts to win.

"Two classes" system is both flexible and not. On one hand, you could be a magical knight or a big Ogryn who's also a mechanic. On the other hand, you can't tweak these two classes at all. Two Knight/Warcasters have identical skills, abilities and spells. Only mechanical differences will be stats and equipment.

Still, the game does many things right and there are still lots of options.
I've really enjoyed (new) Iron Kingdoms, even though I have not played Warmachine or Hordes.

[caden_varn]

The old Iron Kingdoms game was a basically 3.5 setting. It was well done, with a number of changes to the standard base classes and flavourful new base classes and prestige classes to fit the setting, as well.
The setting is nicely detailed, and they have given it a nice steampunky feel IMO.
The base book has most of the stuff you need, character creation & prestige classes, changes to the rules to fit the setting (particularly overhauling magic & magic items), an overview of the setting that is fairly decent as I recall. You need the Monsternomicon for setting specific monsters though, and there is a book with an expanded view of the setting, and a useful book with more detailed rules for magic & magic items (can't remember the names of these at the moment).
There is an adventure trilogy (The Witchfire trilogy) based in the setting - be aware that it was done before the main rulebooks, so some conversion is needed to fit them in (in particular, the main rules replace most magic items with mechanika, a magic/technology blend, with actual magic items being very rare & dangerous to make. The adventure only has normal magic items which does not really fit into the setting - it's easy enough to convert them though).

I have got the new rules, which are a homegrown system presumably based in their Warmachine system (don't have it so cannot say for sure). I have not played it yet, so Raimun has more knowledge of this than me. I'll add a couple of points to what he has said though.
First on classes - I believe at some point you get to add a third class giving a bit more flexibility.
On the other hand, you have to choose one of four archetypes (away from books so can't check if that is the proper word) at character creation - roughly tough, dexterous, intelligent or arcane. If you want to have any arcane class, you have to pick the arcane background (but I have seen some houserules to get round that which seem sensible).

Secondly on combat, the main rules are for using minis and tape measures etc., but there is a section on running combat without minis as an option. Not too sure how well it will work.

Finally, there are only a handful of monsters in the main book (admittedly this is more than the 3.5 version had). I assume that there is/will be a monster manual, and you can make enemies from the PC races, but it was a bit disappointing for me.

[ShadowFighter15]

Caden and Raimun have the right of it for the most part. Although the bit about a lack of monsters is only half-true - yes, the core book is lacking a bit but there's a free-to-download bestiary on the website (http://privateerpress.com/iron-kingdoms/downloads) and they're adding new monsters in just about every issue of No Quarter magazine (which, unlike a certain other miniatures company, isn't just a glorified catalogue and vehicle for Matt Ward's writing).

The four Archetypes - Mighty, Skilled, Gifted and Intellectual - can make for some interesting builds, though having to take Gifted for any magical career is a bit of a pain (particularly since most of the Archetype Benefits from it aren't much use to Gun Mages, who cast their Rune Shot spells as part of firing their magelock weapon and who are a personal favourite of mine for the setting - probably just the tricorns:smalltongue:). Also, some races are barred from certain Archetypes - you can't have a Gifted Gobber or Intellectual Trollkin, for instance. Ogrun get the real short-end of that stick - they miss out on both Gifted and Intellectual. They have said that there'll be more Archetypes in the future - I think one's in the next hardcover release, which'll cover the human kingdoms.

I was down in Sydney a couple of weeks ago and ran the adventure in the back of Urban Adventure for them as an intro to the game and so I could see how it played myself. According to the GM of their normal DnD4e games, that one (poorly-run, rushed and never-actually-finished*) session managed to "OHKO [their] 4e campaign" because they loved the system so much.

The feat point system was what they really liked and the aforementioned 4e GM liked how magic worked for Will Weavers (likening it to heat buildup - whether this was from me finally convincing him to get Mechwarrior Online earlier that day or not, I don't know :smalltongue:) and another player was almost squee-ing over the Thamarite Advocate career in Urban Adventure when I told her it had access to necromancy. I can only imagine how she'd react to a sourcebook covering Cryx :smallbiggrin:.

It is a very lethal system, though - I think the only reason the PCs got off so lightly from enemy attacks was because the Dice Gods hated me that night. The enemies weren't so lucky - one encounter in the basement of a pub was over almost as soon as it started when the party all rolled higher for initiative than the enemies and slaughtered them all in a single turn.

There are a few holes in the rules, but a wander of the Privateer Press forums'll soon point them out (there was talk in one thread about organising a thread with all of these issues and common solutions listed, but I don't know if anything came of it) and most can be plugged with a bit of common-sense.

The sidebar on running the game without minis isn't overly helpful in my mind and requires further abstraction for the rules - especially for the various spells and abilities that allow you to move people about the battlefield and in general seems like too much work to be worth it. You can just use discs of paper or cardboard (we used the former) cut to the right size for the most part and using the rule of 1-inch=6-feet (which is mentioned frequently in the book) you can get the scale about right for the maps. Size is 30mm for humans, elves, dwarves and gobbers, 40mm for cavalry, light steamjacks, ogrun and trollkin, and 50mm for heavy 'jacks.

There's also this article on Hand Cannon Online (http://handcannononline.com/blog/2013/01/08/do-it-yourself-ikrpg-character-tokens/) to make your own paper/card standees for the game instead of using proper minis. You can run without minis or maps, but it's probably easier to just use minis/standees/tokens/whatever.

*I'm not the best GM through PbP and this was my first face-to-face game as a player or GM. I stumbled a bit here and there because I didn't read the adventure enough times to prepare, left cutting out the maps and tokens til as the session started (when I'd had several days to do it or even have done it before flying down), pretty much left organising it to the last minute since I did it the night before I flew back, and we ran out of time right after the fair ground encounter so they missed out on learning how the plot fit together.

[MachineWraith]

I'm in the midst of a campaign in IK right now, and I have to say, I and my players love this system, and the setting as well. Combat is quick, deadly, and tactical, and the roleplay is, well, roleplay; it's all about who you've got at the table. At this point the party are pirates out to find their fortunes. Human Pirate/Aristocrat Captain, Trollkin Fell Caller/Military Officer First Mate, Human Alchemist/Pirate...erm...crazy guy, and Human Ranger/Trencher as our spotter/sniper, going for kind of a jayhawker theme.

[caden_varn]

Caden and Raimun have the right of it for the most part. Although the bit about a lack of monsters is only half-true - yes, the core book is lacking a bit but there's a free-to-download bestiary on the website (http://privateerpress.com/iron-kingdoms/downloads) and they're adding new monsters in just about every issue of No Quarter magazine (which, unlike a certain other miniatures company, isn't just a glorified catalogue and vehicle for Matt Ward's writing).


I was down in Sydney a couple of weeks ago and ran the adventure in the back of Urban Adventure for them as an intro to the game and so I could see how it played myself.

Oooohh, I did not know about the extra creatures, or the new book. I'm planning ondoing a miniadventure to trial the syste, this will be really helpful, thanks :smallsmile:

[ShadowFighter15]

Yeah, Urban Adventure came out early-mid December - had some new monsters and suggested encounters for introducing them, an adventure in Five Fingers (and a good article covering the city, although it mentions that the article's content is from the old 3.5 book about the city), a few non-human careers* and the Thamarite Advocate career for humans, which also came with rules for necromancy and thrall-crafting.

Couple of new labourjack chassis and a bunch of new 'jack weapons. Some new equipment and weapons but nothing particularly ground-breaking (although I can see some characters wanting the collapsible pistol and rifle) - probably saving the good stuff for the next hardcover release.

Only found a single major problem and that's with a spell for the Thamarite Advocate called Bone Shaker. More with the confusing wording - when you read it, it sounds like the spellcaster gets to move and make a melee attack when they kill someone with the spell, but before the target actually dies. How it's supposed to work (assuming they were just porting over the wargame version of the spell that Gaspy3 (http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/Asphyxious+the+Hellbringer) has and someone messed up somewhere) is that, when you kill someone with the spell, the spell's target is controlled by the spellcaster and can make a full advance and melee attack before expiring. Sort-of instant, short-term necromancy.


*New non-human careers:
Gobber - Guttersnipe: Pickpocket or information broker, basically.
Ogrun - Labour Korune: Ogrun worker's union boss.
Trollkin & Ogrun - Pugilist: Intimidation backed up by bare-handed face-beating.
Iosan - Seeker: Academic explorer, has an ability that lets him work in any Adventuring Company regardless of what his other career is.
Nyss - Urban Nomad: Adapted from tribal life to city. Got a very Assassin's Creed vibe from this one thanks to an ability called Adaptive [Urban] - lets him reroll failed Climbing and Jumping checks while in an urban environment.

There was also the Long Rider (http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/trollbloods/units/trollkin-long-riders) for trollkin in No Quarter #45 while #46 has the Doom Reaver (http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/mkiiDoom+Reavers) career.

[hamlet]

Interesting. Now I have to make a choice between Iron Kingdoms and some more Mantic minis.

:smallwink:Woe is me!