Anyone played an unarmed Swordsage/Warblade? How'd it go?

[danzibr]

I'm about to roll a new character, starting at level 11. I've always liked the idea of a monk (not Monk), and everyone says unarmed Swordsage is the way to go. However, I'd like my guy to be a bit beefier. I'll be the party's main tank, so to speak (others are a somewhat melee Sorc, a blaster Sorc and a healing Cleric).

My idea is to switch back and forth between Swordsage and Warblade. I'm wondering if someone has tried this particular combo before (or even just unarmed Swordsage or... unarmed Warblade) and how it went. Like what you did in combat, if you found it fun, etc.

I'm also open to suggestions, like what to choose for a race, any good dips, essential feats, etc. I've already read the Swordsage and Warblade handbooks I can find. Also, any suggestions on how much to take of each class.

Also, would anyone suggest throwing in some Crusader while I'm at it? Swordsage/Warblade/Crusader... mmm...

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I find it never hurts to drop a few strategic Unarmed Swordsage dips into a Warblade build. If your group doesn't allow the first level of a ToB class to take maneuvers over level one regardless of Character Level then your first Swordsage Level should be at level 1 to get X4 on Swordsage's 6 skill points.

Say

1 Swordsage 1
2 Warblade 1
3 Warblade 2
4 Swordsage 2 2nd Level Maneuver
5 Warblade 3 2nd Level Maneuver
6 Warblade 4 3rd Level Maneuver
7 Swordsage 3 3rdLevel Maneuver

If you can take higher level Maneuver's at the first dip you might consider delaying Swordsage 1 till level 9 to net multiple 3's. Despite it being the "weak" school I like Desert Wind for Warblade Heavy WarSages to get lots of boosts which synergizes well with Warblade Strikes especially the ones that are Full Attack+.

[RagnaroksChosen]

I know you mentioned not going Monk but I have to highly recomend 2 levels of monk It doesn't hurt the TOB classes. You get monk unarmed damage flurry (which to be honest I would trade for the double damage one from PHB2), Plus you get evasion and a couple of feats.
Though I know some people use the alternative class stuff for swordsage but I think the 2 levels are still worth it.

Regardless you will have to key the multiclassing just right to get the best stances from both classes.

[gorfnab]

2 levels of Barbarian can be nice for the ACFs
1. City Brawler ACF (Drg 349) - nets you Unarmed Strike + TWF with Unarmed Strikes, Spirit Totem Lion ACF (CC) - Pounce
2. Wolf Totem (UA) - Improved Trip

[Kuulvheysoon]

I find it never hurts to drop a few strategic Unarmed Swordsage dips into a Warblade build. If your group doesn't allow the first level of a ToB class to take maneuvers over level one regardless of Character Level then your first Swordsage Level should be at level 1 to get X4 x6 on Swordsage's 6 skill points.

Fixed that for you.:smallwink:

My buddy played an Unarmed Warblade once - between Versatile Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike and GMW he managed not too badly.

He focused mainly on the Stone Dragon and Iron Heart disciplines, with a bit of Diamond Mind tossed in.

[navar100]

There's nothing wrong dipping some swordsage into a warblade build, but it doesn't need to be unarmed. If you really want to play the flavor of it, sure, go for it. If you want to go into Master of Nine, go for it. However, for a pure game mechanics perspective, using a weapon is better. If anything you get the fun of wielding a cool magic weapon. You get more mileage out of a two-handed weapon or even two-weapon using Tiger Claw. Still dip swordsage for the maneuvers, but it doesn't specifically have to be unarmed variant unless you really want that flavor.

If swordsage is going to be your main class, that's different. If you really, really want to play a "monk" and/or your heart is set on Master of Nine, unarmed swordsage is the way to go. For your main shtick of being a warblade, it's not necessary.

[danzibr]

Oh yeah, I'm seeing it now. Necklace of Natural Attacks, mix of Warblade and Swordsage, probably Warforged for flavor reasons (trying to not optimize here).

Thanks for the input all. It's really hard to decide that Swordsage 1 for the extra skills or put it off for the more maneuvers. I'll post back here with my build in a few days when I have it done.

[Fouredged Sword]

Be a normal swordsage and go light armor / quarterstaff and call yourself a monk. It is a nicely versitile weapon.

Also a focused attack monk (2) dip can be very powerful. Use Rolbars Gambit to get AOO's that deal double damage. You get some great returns of power attack that way (use a quarterstaff and you get 2xweapon damage +3xstr mod +2xnormal power attack bonus). Pick up power attack as a monk bonus feat. Also, rolbar and stormguard work wonders when mixed to boost attack bonuses for a killer focused attack/max power attack combo for massive damage. Save your maneuvers for boosts. Also, snap kick works with focused attack for an extra double damage hit.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Oh yeah, I'm seeing it now. Necklace of Natural Attacks, mix of Warblade and Swordsage, probably Warforged for flavor reasons (trying to not optimize here).

Thanks for the input all. It's really hard to decide that Swordsage 1 for the extra skills or put it off for the more maneuvers. I'll post back here with my build in a few days when I have it done.

Warforged is usually an optimized race (:smallwink:), just saying and if you are going to dip swordsage anyway there is no reason to not go Unarmed swordsage, the main drawback (no armour proficiency) is taken care by Warblade proficiency, and being ableto be lethally armed at all times is a great boon (I haven't been in a game were there wasn't a scene that forced the party to disarm itself, be it a royal hearing or being thrown in jail), though the warforged natural slam makes Unarmed Strike somewhat redundant.

[Fouredged Sword]

The slam is a secondary natural attack you get after your unarmed strikes. Not redundant at all.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Unless your group makes additional changes to Swordsage, there's no reason not to go UnarmedSwordsage if it's a dip or your dipping something else. The only thing Unarmed Swordsage loses is a proficiency that any non monk dip will give back, so grab the unarmed progression even if you use a weapon just to have it as a fall back if your captured, grappled, in a bar fight etc.