[PF] Switching from utility to blasting?

[Krazzman]

Hello again Playground,

after some time wondering and looking up spells and such I have to admit being again in a sort of "pinch".

Adding a TL;DR:
Searching for blasting spells to take that don't need any feat/bloodline support for an 8th level Human Sorcerer.


In a rather low-wealth Pathfinder campaign I'm playing a 7th level Sage Bloodline Sorcerer with an 18 in Int in a 5 to 6 Person group (Aasimar Cleric with healing focus, Half-Elf Barbarian [PA, Furious Focus, Vital Strike + 2 I don't remember (two rage feats If I remember correctly) atm and Rage Powers I don't know], a dwarven Ranger (Dual Wield), a Dwarven Paladin (with some archetype) and an Elven Wizard.

The problem that arose after defeating a CR 12 that we were supposed to run away from is... My blasting capabilities are lacking. The spells I have are:
Alarm, Blindness-Deafness, Bull's Strength, Burning Hands[I want to keep against swarms...], Dispel Magic, Feather fall, Fly, Haste, Identify, Invisibility, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Mount, Scorching Ray, Spider Climb, Touch of the Sea.

The blasting is wished from the party as we have 1 primary supporter (the cleric) and a controller (the Wizard), the only one doing really huge damage is the Half-Elf Barbarian (with elemental rage, lesser).

For feats I have: Combat Casting, Toughness (was already worth it), Extend Spell, Craft Magic Arms and Armor (will hopefully abuse it for the party in the future), Craft Wondrous Items and Still Spell(Bloodline Bonusfeat). Due to a Houserule to Initiative the feats for it are banned. Traits are +1 Fort saves (Resilient) and +2 Concentration.

Magical Gear: 2 Wands: Identify and Enlarge Person, 1st spelllevel pearl of power, cloak of resistance, bracers of armor +1, Handy Haversack, Bag of Holding type 1.

The next level up is only maybe 1 or two sessions away and as such I get a fourth level spell, a 3rd level spell due to my human heritage and could change spells. I can only take spells from Core and APG and so far thought about Acid Arrow, Enervation, and Lightning Bolt. Switching out Blindness-Deafness. Probably going for Tiny hut next as we are in a nearly permanent "dust-storm" to help the wizard (so he can prepare the Secure Shelter).

[AttilaTheGeek]

Acid Arrow is situationally useful, but nowhere near the damage output of Scorching Ray. Flaming Sphere is also obscenely powerful, but it's only useful on boss fights because it does damage over time. For third level spells, Fireball is solid, and it scales well with metamagic into the late game. (Persistent, Intensify, Empower, and Maximize). Stone Call is also situationally life-saving, and Frost Fall is very handy battlefield control with damage as icing on the cake.

(If you want me to show the math on any of these statements, I very gladly will.)

[Krazzman]

Acid Arrow is situationally useful, but nowhere near the damage output of Scorching Ray. Flaming Sphere is also obscenely powerful, but it's only useful on boss fights because it does damage over time. For third level spells, Fireball is solid, and it scales well with metamagic into the late game. (Persistent, Intensify, Empower, and Maximize). Stone Call is also situationally life-saving, and Frost Fall is very handy battlefield control with damage as icing on the cake.

(If you want me to show the math on any of these statements, I very gladly will.)

Ok, I wanted to have another form of damage as I have only, Force (4d4+4), 5d4 Fire, ref half, and 2 4d6 rays of fire. And well I think we'll meet quite a few demons and other stuff that is rather... fire resistant. Although fire does fit the cook theme the char has out of combat.
What level is Frost Fall? Empower or Maximize as feat on level 9? Should I take a focus to raise dc's? Some other spells that aren't able to do friendly fire (that's another reason why I'm hesistant with Fireball...)

[Krazzman]

I'm unsure from where you got Frostfall... so far I have only found Firefall.

Acid Arrow would deal 2d4 for three rounds. Which is indeed quite lackluster but the only other option would be Stone Call or Flaming sphere which both are... bad too.
The options I have for that spell level as blasting spells is:
2d6 no save, difficult terrain for 7 rounds.
3d6 fire damage, ref negates for 8 rounds.
2d4 for 3 rounds.

Level 3 has the iconic Fireball and Lightning Bolt which I'm unsure to take the fireball. Maybe on level 9... if I survive it until then.

[Firest Kathon]

Frost Fall (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/frost-fall) is from Ultimate Combat.

[Krazzman]

Awesome spell... now I've only got to convice the DM to let me take it next level. Thanks.

[AttilaTheGeek]

Acid Arrow would deal 2d4 for three rounds. Which is indeed quite lackluster but the only other option would be Stone Call or Flaming sphere which both are... bad too.
The options I have for that spell level as blasting spells is:
2d6 no save, difficult terrain for 7 rounds.
3d6 fire damage, ref negates for 8 rounds.
2d4 for 3 rounds.

The advantage of Stone Call is that it has a 40' radius. If you're fighting a dozen goblins, or running away from an army, 2d6 no save to all of them or making 80' of difficult terrain for your pursuers can turn the tide of a battle.

You're also misreading Flaming Sphere. 3d6 per round (ref negates) times 8 rounds multiplies for a total of 24d6 damage total. That's far above and beyond what any other spell can out put out at 2nd level, and as a primary caster they should be failing their saves often.

Acid Arrow is as bad as it looks, at least in terms of damage. But it's very strong against enemy casters because it's SR:No, and the damage over time forces concentration checks on every spell.

[Eldonauran]

If you don't mind spending a feat and are not looking at using up your next 'spell known', there is a way to get a pure 'blasty' 'spell' that you can change on the fly from touch, to ray, to burst, etc.

If you don't mind learning an alternate way to cast spells, that is. If you have Ultimate Magic, crack open the pages that deal with 'Word Casting'.

The feat 'Experiemental Word Caster' (IIRC, on the name), allows for you to learn all the target words, the boost word and ONE effect word, up to the highest level you can cast (at that time).

I highly recommend this, IF you are only interested in 'basic' effects on spells (like blasting), since it is described as a more primal type of casting, not like the spells we have now that wizards created rules for them. You can't recreate the effects of, let's say, Hero's Feast, but you can sure mimic a fireball and even turn that fireball into a single target ray spell instead, just by changing one word of the spell.

[Krazzman]

If you don't mind spending a feat and are not looking at using up your next 'spell known', there is a way to get a pure 'blasty' 'spell' that you can change on the fly from touch, to ray, to burst, etc.

If you don't mind learning an alternate way to cast spells, that is. If you have Ultimate Magic, crack open the pages that deal with 'Word Casting'.

The feat 'Experiemental Word Caster' (IIRC, on the name), allows for you to learn all the target words, the boost word and ONE effect word, up to the highest level you can cast (at that time).

I highly recommend this, IF you are only interested in 'basic' effects on spells (like blasting), since it is described as a more primal type of casting, not like the spells we have now that wizards created rules for them. You can't recreate the effects of, let's say, Hero's Feast, but you can sure mimic a fireball and even turn that fireball into a single target ray spell instead, just by changing one word of the spell.

Sadly no. We should only stay in APG and Core, although if the DM doesn't think it's overpowered we could ask him. Which I will do for Frostfall at least.
And about Flaming Sphere... you can basically save from all damage. The chance is quite low but it is still a fire spell. In the mentioned last battle the flaming sphere's (3 simultaneous) did a total of 20 damage... because of fire resistance, the mage seemed to even forgot the Ref-save which that monster would have beaten every single one. We killed it through Barbarian crits and magic missile.

We have an average sight distance of 10 feet. Walking constantly through an ash and bone cloud in a desert thing. (Slumbering Tsar Saga or something like that). As such generally all AoE damage is contraproductive as we won't leave this place anytime soon (trying to investigate stuff).

[AttilaTheGeek]

Sadly no. We should only stay in APG and Core

(snip)

As such generally all AoE damage is contraproductive as we won't leave this place anytime soon (trying to investigate stuff).

In that case, I'd just take Toppling Spell and spam Magic Missile. Actually, I don't even remember if Toppling Spell is legal for your group. My only other suggestion would be buying your GM a hand-wrapped copy of Ultimate Magic for his/her birthday.

[Krazzman]

In that case, I'd just take Toppling Spell and spam Magic Missile. Actually, I don't even remember if Toppling Spell is legal for your group. My only other suggestion would be buying your GM a hand-wrapped copy of Ultimate Magic for his/her birthday.

AFAIK they have the Books, and I have UC and UM too (APG and Core as well).

Toppling is Ultimate Magic. I can't really analyse our encounters since we joined the group with level 6 and basically advanced to level 7 outright in the first session. We have so far fought against a few Ghouls or Ghasts, some Spellcaster with Flesh to Stone, a Babau(?) or this Red skelettal demon thingies, a frigging CR 12 Spider! and a Living Storm out of Scrap Parts. A Big ass Earth elemental too.

[AttilaTheGeek]

I'd recommend talking to your GM about how his/her encounter design is prohibiting you from effectively contributing the way you want to.

[Analytica]

Note also that _all_ rules are on e.g. d20pfsrd. : )

[Krazzman]

I'd recommend talking to your GM about how his/her encounter design is prohibiting you from effectively contributing the way you want to.

It's not his encounter design, we play a Module called Slumbering Tsar Saga. The big point is I play a caster for the first time in that level. I basically am the Haste/Strength buffer in the group and I have a few cool tricks. But I seem to have basically only taken Fire Spells.

My Plan now is either taking Frost Fall/Stone Call for Blindness/Deafness and Tiny Hut and Enervation. Although I feel enervation is not that great because my ranged attack bonus sucks.

EDIT: Hah I knew I missed one spell, what about Shout as 4th Level spell? Good or Bad? Deafened against spellcasters is nice and 5d6 Sonic damage would still deal at least a little bit of damage.

[Alienist]

It's not his encounter design, we play a Module called Slumbering Tsar Saga. The big point is I play a caster for the first time in that level. I basically am the Haste/Strength buffer in the group and I have a few cool tricks. But I seem to have basically only taken Fire Spells.


If you're doing haste on the group and the two dwarves and the barbarian are in place to do full attacks (and if they're not haste will get them to where they need to be), then you're effectively doing 3 extra attacks per round (at full BAB!). That's 21 attacks from a single spell (more if the cleric joins in by bashing something with his or her mace)

If on top of that you're also increasing their strength, then every time they do the bonus strength damage that's directly attributable to your contribution.

Frankly, if the damage was correctly attributed then I think you'd find you probably already do more damage than any other player in the party.

[Krazzman]

If you're doing haste on the group and the two dwarves and the barbarian are in place to do full attacks (and if they're not haste will get them to where they need to be), then you're effectively doing 3 extra attacks per round (at full BAB!). That's 21 attacks from a single spell (more if the cleric joins in by bashing something with his or her mace)

If on top of that you're also increasing their strength, then every time they do the bonus strength damage that's directly attributable to your contribution.

Frankly, if the damage was correctly attributed then I think you'd find you probably already do more damage than any other player in the party.

Yeah still so far I just buff up the Barbarian with Strength since... when you see only 5 feet you can't really prepare for combat. Additionally Haste I can use once and it's spammed on everyone in the party, even me. Bull's strength is not and would cost me additional rounds and going into melee range. And since I just enable them to make this and they bring the chassis I don't account it as MY damage but more or less as Group-DMG.

Furthermore the only one really worth the buff is the barbarian, a Axe'nShield Dwarf Paladin and a TWFing Ranger. (which reminds me... haste even is better with a THFing character as opposed to a TWFing...).

The reason I want some blasting spells too is... I want to have something else to do after buffing than using my sling/crossbow or magic missile.

[Alienist]

Yeah still so far I just buff up the Barbarian with Strength since... when you see only 5 feet you can't really prepare for combat. Additionally Haste I can use once and it's spammed on everyone in the party, even me. Bull's strength is not and would cost me additional rounds and going into melee range. And since I just enable them to make this and they bring the chassis I don't account it as MY damage but more or less as Group-DMG.

Furthermore the only one really worth the buff is the barbarian, a Axe'nShield Dwarf Paladin and a TWFing Ranger. (which reminds me... haste even is better with a THFing character as opposed to a TWFing...).

The reason I want some blasting spells too is... I want to have something else to do after buffing than using my sling/crossbow or magic missile.

Ah, I thought the wand of enlarge was the source of the buffs.